10-year-old rape victim denied abortion in OH

[Mike M (the other one)]

(07-14-2022, 03:31 PM)pally Wrote: These laws are so poorly written that no one knows what actually constitutes a major medical risk and when that kicks in. Everyone knows an ectopic pregnancy is nonviable,  but is it an emergency before the tube ruptures?  At what point does pre-eclampsic blood pressure become life-threatening or uncontrollable?  How much bleeding is dangerous? Can a dead fetus be removed BEFORE it turns septic?  Republicans in the legislature were all so eager to prove they were the most pro-life that they wrote bad laws.  It is just like those vague anti-CRT-type laws going around.  They are so poorly written no one knows what is legal and what isn't legal. 

I agree that sometimes they are very poorly written, but you know as well as i do that had anyone gone after the 10 yr old and tried her for anything it would be absolute political suicide. I mean i realize that alot of politicians aren't the brightest out there (I kinda blame it on lack of common sense) but very few are THAT dumb.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(07-14-2022, 03:44 PM)pally Wrote: This is from Jim Bopp a lawyer for the National Right to Life Org who wrote the prototype for these abortion bans on the 10 year old

  “She would have had the baby, and as many women who have had babies as a result of rape, we would hope that she would understand the reason and ultimately the benefit of having the child,” Bopp said in a phone interview on Thursday.



She is not a woman...she is a child herself.

 We don’t think, as heartwrenching as those circumstances are, we don’t think we should devalue the life of the baby because of the sins of the father.”


No, they have devalued the life of the mother or in this case the living breathing child turning her into nothing but a broodmare without feelings, ideas, or rights of her own.  She exists only to procreate, her hopes and dreams be damned

OFC he would, What else would you expect from someone that is an extremist?


Honestly, has a SINGLE person in here said that?

[BigPapaKain]

(07-14-2022, 03:09 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Are you referring to Donna Hylton? That's a messed up story all around, how ever, She kinda crossed a line.. 

Right because nobody has ever been driven to do something extreme by years of stress.

Even if she crossed a line (whack take at best), it could EASILY be argued that she was pushed over the line more than she crossed it.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(07-14-2022, 03:55 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Right because nobody has ever been driven to do something extreme by years of stress.

Even if she crossed a line (whack take at best), it could EASILY be argued that she was pushed over the line more than she crossed it.

Whack take? Yes she was messed up from what had happened to her, but please fill in the story.
She was free from her rapist for a few years? Married and living with another guy...
Turned around and drugged and kidnapped her original rapist, tried to extort him for money, then tortured him to death? 

As a human being, i can understand a revenge kill, but what she did, just doesn't quite feel like it was just revenge she was after.

[BigPapaKain]

(07-14-2022, 04:38 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Whack take? Yes she was messed up from what had happened to her, but please fill in the story.
She was free from her rapist for a few years? Married and living with another guy...
Turned around and drugged and kidnapped her original rapist, tried to extort him for money, then tortured him to death? 

As a human being, i can understand a revenge kill, but what she did, just doesn't quite feel like it was just revenge she was after.

You don't just come back normal from what she went through. Just because someone puts up the healthy facade doesn't mean they're in a good place (see also: Williams, Robin). 

Maybe I'm a bit on the aggressive side of this, but I feel like she was 100% justified in paying it back as brutally as she did.

I'm not a judge so my opinion is irrelevant in the long run. Hell, even in the short run I'm going to come off as a raving lunatic. So be it.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-14-2022, 04:55 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: You don't just come back normal from what she went through. Just because someone puts up the healthy facade doesn't mean they're in a good place (see also: Williams, Robin). 

Maybe I'm a bit on the aggressive side of this, but I feel like she was 100% justified in paying it back as brutally as she did.

I'm not a judge so my opinion is irrelevant in the long run. Hell, even in the short run I'm going to come off as a raving lunatic. So be it.

Using your logic every single family member of a murder victim should be able to kill the murderer once they're released from prison.  

[BigPapaKain]

(07-14-2022, 04:57 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Using your logic every single family member of a murder victim should be able to kill the murderer once they're released from prison.  

*hardy shrug*

I never said it was sound logic or even healthy logic.

[Bengalzona]

(07-14-2022, 12:50 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Since accusations and ulterior motives were ascribed to people wanting corroboration for this story I'd like to present a piece citing the exact same concerns from the far right Washington Post.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/07/09/one-source-story-about-10-year-old-an-abortion-goes-viral/

Maybe the guy who wrote it is racist?

Yes. I saw this article yesterday and thought it was decently written and made some good points. Being one of the "gullible" people who re-posted the one-source article, frankly I was pissed that the ones who published the initial article would have been so reckless as to not have a confirming source prior to sharing it. Even if it was later proved accurate. If you want people to trust you as a source of information, you can't go with personal feelings and forget you professionalism, IMO.

[Bengalzona]

(07-14-2022, 01:48 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Speaking of facts,
Everyone agrees that if this 10 year old is at major medical risk if she were to carry til birth right?

So with that in mind, the Heartbeat bill does have that covered and she could legally have an abortion in Ohio.
"serious risk of the substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function of the pregnant woman"

Now all that said, Hopefully the Heartbeat Bill gets an amendment to cover Rapes etc, but the reality of the situation appears to be purely Politically driven with no real concern for the girl other than making her a martyr for the cause.

I thought that point would not be disputed. But no less than ten minutes after I posted a similar thing about this on FaceBook, a friend of mine started arguing the point. Basically along the lines of "farm animals", "other cultures", "nature", and "old enough to bleed...", etc. This, in turn, forced me into a rabbit's hole of Google searching for such terms as "pre-teen pregnancy", "precocious puberty", "list of earliest births", and other terms which I know that I will someday regret searching for when some asshat is digging through my private search history. I was pissed off that he chose that line of arguing, and doubly pissed of at myself for 'taking the bait' and engaging.

(Yeah. He's a bit messed up. But he is still my friend. And aren't we all a little messed up, anyway?)

Anyhow... here is a link about the list of earliest pregnancies: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_youngest_birth_mothers

Those are the ones that went to full term. Overwhelmingly, most don't make it that far. It is an interesting, but very sad read. If you look through the descriptions on the right, you quickly realize the incestuous rape is clearly among the most common causes.

[GMDino]

The AG of Indiana wants to pursue charges against the doctor and also take away her medical license.  

1) He can't file charges.

2) He claimed he couldn't find where the doctor filed the proper papers for the abortion, however a report with journalistic integrity found it immediately.

https://fox59.com/indiana-news/abortion-report-confirms-indiana-doctor-followed-law-after-ag-vowed-investigation/

Quote:INDIANAPOLIS — After Indiana Attorney General Todd Rokita threatened to go after the license of an Indiana physician who provided an abortion to a 10-year-old rape victim from Ohio, documents obtained by FOX59 through a public record request proved the physician not only filed a terminated pregnancy report but filed the report within the required timeframe.

The terminated pregnancy report, obtained by FOX59’s Angela Ganote, shows that Caitlin Bernard, an Indiana obstetrician-gynecologist, reported the abortion on July 2, two days after the abortion was performed and within the three days required for terminations to be reported to the Department of Child Service and the Indiana Department of Health.

In the report, Bernard also indicated that the child suffered abuse.

Bernard publically shared the story of the 10-year-old rape victim’s abortion in an interview with the Indianapolis Star earlier this month. The 10-year-old girl had been impregnated when she was raped by a 27-year-old in Ohio and traveled to Indiana to get an abortion due to Ohio banning abortions after six weeks following the U.S. Supreme Court overturning Roe v. Wade.

The story of the 10-year-old gained national attention with some news outlets and politicians even expressing doubt that the story was true. Republican Ohio Attorney General Dave Yost was among those who questioned the validity of the story on Fox News. Rep. Jim Jordan, a Republican of Ohio, called the story a “lie” in a now-deleted Tweet.

On Wednesday, the story was confirmed when a 27-year-old was arrested for the rape and confessed to the crime.

In the wake of the confirmation of the crime, Rokita drew criticism when he responded by threatening to go after Bernard’s medical license. In an appearance on Fox News on Wednesday, Rokita referred to Bernard as an “abortion activist acting as a doctor.” He claimed Bernard to have a history of failing to report abortions and that an investigation into the physician and her license was underway.

“We’re gathering the evidence as we speak, and we’re going to fight this to the end, including looking at her licensure if she failed to report. And in Indiana it’s a crime … to intentionally not report,” Rokita said.
On Tuesday, Rokita issued a statement saying:

ATTORNEY GENERAL TODD ROKITA Wrote:[i]“Aside from the horror caused here by illegal immigration, we are investigating this situation and are waiting for the relevant documents to prove if the abortion and/or the abuse were reported, as Dr. Caitlin Bernard had requirements to do both under Indiana law. The failure to do so constitutes a crime in Indiana, and her behavior could also affect her licensure. Additionally, if a HIPAA violation did occur, that may affect next steps as well. I will not relent in the pursuit of the truth.”[/i]

FOX59 has reached out to Rokita for a response now that the report has been obtained showing that Bernard did file a report as required. Rokita’s office responded with the following, “As we stated, we are gathering evidence from multiple sources and agencies related to these allegations. Our legal review of it remains open.”

The Indiana Democratic Party slammed Rokita for his decision to pursue litigation against the doctor stating, “Attorney General Todd Rokita is looking to sue a doctor for saving a young girl’s life. The Indiana Republican Party believes rape survivors – including minors – should be forced to give birth to their rapist’s baby. Their agenda is dangerous and too extreme for Indiana.”

Bernard has not yet responded to Rokita but did Tweet on Wednesday saying, “My heart breaks for all survivors of sexual assault and abuse. I am so sad that our country is failing them when they need us most. Doctors must be able to give people the medical care they need, when and where they need it.”

Bernard’s attorney sent the following statement:

KATHLEEN DELANEY OF DELANEY & DELANEY LLC Wrote:“My client, Dr. Caitlin Bernard, took every appropriate and proper action in accordance with the law and both her medical and ethical training as a physician. She followed all relevant policies, procedures, and regulations in this case, just as she does every day to provide the best possible care for her patients. She has not violated any law, including patient privacy laws, and she has not been disciplined by her employer. We are considering legal action against those who have smeared my client, including Indiana Attorney General Todd Rokita, and know that the facts will all come out in due time.”

The terminated pregnancy report is included below:

There is also a letter floating around saying the 10 year old would NOT have been legally able to get an abortion in OH but I have not verified that yet.

[Vas Deferens]

What an idiot.

[BFritz21]

So apparently this guy that raped her was an illegal immigrant, so this falls squarely on Biden's shoulders and his immigration policy, or lack thereof.

[CarolinaBengalFanGuy]

(07-14-2022, 05:26 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: I thought that point would not be disputed. But no less than ten minutes after I posted a similar thing about this on FaceBook, a friend of mine started arguing the point. Basically along the lines of "farm animals", "other cultures", "nature", and "old enough to bleed...", etc. This, in turn, forced me into a rabbit's hole of Google searching for such terms as "pre-teen pregnancy", "precocious puberty", "list of earliest births", and other terms which I know that I will someday regret searching for when some asshat is digging through my private search history. I was pissed off that he chose that line of arguing, and doubly pissed of at myself for 'taking the bait' and engaging.

(Yeah. He's a bit messed up. But he is still my friend. And aren't we all a little messed up, anyway?)

Anyhow... here is a link about the list of earliest pregnancies: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_youngest_birth_mothers

Those are the ones that went to full term. Overwhelmingly, most don't make it that far. It is an interesting, but very sad read. If you look through the descriptions on the right, you quickly realize the incestuous rape is clearly among the most common causes.

Well considering the ages listed I'm actually surprised how many of them had the babies and both mother and child survived. Having no idea about pregnancies that young I would have assumed it was very dangerous for 10 and under, but not nearly as dangerous as I assumed. 

[*Nately120*]

(07-15-2022, 01:58 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: So apparently this guy that raped her was an illegal immigrant, so this falls squarely on Biden's shoulders and his immigration policy, or lack thereof.

Ive seen reports that say he's been here since 2015.

[GMDino]

"Let the state's decide" is also "let the state decide if their residents can leave to go where something is legal" if you are republican.

Senate Republicans just blocked my bill to protect women who travel for reproductive care and those who help them. They want to allow state legislators to reach across state lines to punish and control women. It’s absolutely outrageous. I won't stop fighting for women's freedom.

— Senator Cortez Masto (@SenCortezMasto) July 14, 2022

 

[*Nately120*]

(07-15-2022, 09:56 AM)GMDino Wrote: "Let the state's decide" is also "let the state decide if their residents can leave to go where something is legal" if you are republican.

Senate Republicans just blocked my bill to protect women who travel for reproductive care and those who help them. They want to allow state legislators to reach across state lines to punish and control women. It’s absolutely outrageous. I won't stop fighting for women's freedom.

— Senator Cortez Masto (@SenCortezMasto) July 14, 2022

 

I bet if you move to an abortion legal state you have to be a resident for 9+ months before your right to get an abortion is recognized. 

[BigPapaKain]

(07-15-2022, 09:56 AM)GMDino Wrote: "Let the state's decide" is also "let the state decide if their residents can leave to go where something is legal" if you are republican.

Senate Republicans just blocked my bill to protect women who travel for reproductive care and those who help them. They want to allow state legislators to reach across state lines to punish and control women. It’s absolutely outrageous. I won't stop fighting for women's freedom.

— Senator Cortez Masto (@SenCortezMasto) July 14, 2022

 

SMALL GOVERNMENT Y'ALL!!

[*Nately120*]

(07-15-2022, 10:48 AM)BigPapaKain Wrote: SMALL GOVERNMENT Y'ALL!!

If you elect me governor of Arkansas we will build a wall to keep pregnant women from leaving to get abortions and planned Parenthood is gonna pay for it!

[Bengalzona]

(07-15-2022, 02:56 AM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: Well considering the ages listed I'm actually surprised how many of them had the babies and both mother and child survived. Having no idea about pregnancies that young I would have assumed it was very dangerous for 10 and under, but not nearly as dangerous as I assumed. 

The list doesn't really make my point about it being so dangerous for the 10-year olds because there is no list of how many were actually impregnated in the first place to compare it to. But it does demonstrate the horrific conditions with which they are impregnated which, by the very act, always includes the act of rape and almost always involves a relative or neighbor.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(07-15-2022, 09:56 AM)GMDino Wrote: "Let the state's decide" is also "let the state decide if their residents can leave to go where something is legal" if you are republican.

Senate Republicans just blocked my bill to protect women who travel for reproductive care and those who help them. They want to allow state legislators to reach across state lines to punish and control women. It’s absolutely outrageous. I won't stop fighting for women's freedom.

— Senator Cortez Masto (@SenCortezMasto) July 14, 2022

 

???
First, there is no law preventing women from crossing state lines to seek an abortion?? Not so sure why that's needed.. but after reading it, looks like she's giving anyone that gives an abortion pretty much 100% legal immunity???

So I'd not be for it either.

So unless i'm misreading something, it's just a BS piece created to sensationalize it.