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(02-24-2024, 08:19 AM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: https://www.businessinsider.com/house-republicans-life-at-conception-ivf-exception-2024-2?amp
- kids for those who don't want them
- no kids for those who do want them
Cruelty as a trademark.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/431/text
And yet they are all coming out and saying they are for protecting IVF.
Hypocrisy at its finest
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(02-24-2024, 08:19 AM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: https://www.businessinsider.com/house-republicans-life-at-conception-ivf-exception-2024-2?amp
- kids for those who don't want them
- no kids for those who do want them
Cruelty as a trademark.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/431/text
Nancy Pelosi, Schumer and Biden are all catholics who support abortion with no term limits. In fact, most Democrats in Congress are Catholics, yet support abortion. A big no in the Catholic faith.
Are you saying they can't govern based on their religion?
I am off to Miami for a 8 night cruise.
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(02-24-2024, 10:00 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Nancy Pelosi, Schumer and Biden are all catholics who support abortion with no term limits. In fact, most Democrats in Congress are Catholics, yet support abortion. A big no in the Catholic faith.
Are you saying they can't govern based on their religion?
I am off to Miami for a 8 night cruise.
They believe in a woman’s right to choose. Those include choices such as birth control or becoming a parent. Leaving the choice to the individual does not automatically mean I or they would choose the same options.
These deeply religious people can separate their personal beliefs from governing for the masses who may not share them. One of the major concerns from conservatives about John Kennedy was that they were afraid he would take his marching orders from the Pope and force Catholicism onto the good Protestant masses. Now you all are mad when people don’t force their personal religious beliefs on others
Chuck Schumer, by the way, is not Catholic but Jewish. Jews believe life begins at birth when God breathes life into them.
edit: 66 of the 212 Democratic members of the House of Representatives identify as Catholic. That is about 31% hardly a majority unless you use Republican math where a minority of people exceeds the majority. 15 of the 51 Democrats in the Senate are Catholic
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except of course in Alabama
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I have to say, I was listening to this story talking about the movement that influenced the judge in Alabama and hoo boy am I concerned.
https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/otm/segments/how-alabama-ivf-ruling-was-influenced-christian-nationalism-on-the-media
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I think it's great. If the Dems had an ounce of savy, they'd blast this group and they judge into the media and ads 24/7 until Election Day. It's a gift on every level.
It's got to be terrifying for the right. They can either break with the ruling and distance themselves from far-right fundies or they can own it and get rinsed in swing states come November.
The right won campaigning on these issues for decades. It's fun to be on offense. Now they get to play defense in every election where choice is even remotely impactful to the ballot. It's gone poorly for them in almost every case so far, even in red states.
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Just damn stupid.
Thankfully it doesn't seem to stand a chance of passing, but still.
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(02-25-2024, 06:03 PM)samhain Wrote: I think it's great. If the Dems had an ounce of savy, they'd blast this group and they judge into the media and ads 24/7 until Election Day. It's a gift on every level.
It's got to be terrifying for the right. They can either break with the ruling and distance themselves from far-right fundies or they can own it and get rinsed in swing states come November.
The right won campaigning on these issues for decades. It's fun to be on offense. Now they get to play defense in every election where choice is even remotely impactful to the ballot. It's gone poorly for them in almost every case so far, even in red states.
I can guarantee you that ads will be running in every single state over this ruling and other reproductive health restrictions.
ONline women's groups on IVF and fertility issues have been frantic. And this is something that easily cuts across the political spectrum.
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(02-25-2024, 01:26 PM)GMDino Wrote: <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Abbott did the same thing. Sued for millions and then when elected capped the payouts for everyone else.
Cruelty is the point. Always have been.
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(02-25-2024, 05:03 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I have to say, I was listening to this story talking about the movement that influenced the judge in Alabama and hoo boy am I concerned.
https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/otm/segments/how-alabama-ivf-ruling-was-influenced-christian-nationalism-on-the-media
https://wapo.st/3OVsLxh
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(02-25-2024, 06:03 PM)samhain Wrote: The right won campaigning on these issues for decades. It's fun to be on offense. Now they get to play defense in every election where choice is even remotely impactful to the ballot. It's gone poorly for them in almost every case so far, even in red states.
That's why we have a system where Trump can and probably will lose the popular vote by 5+ million votes and still win because EC and Biden being old and unpopular and THEN even the red states that don't want this stuff to be outlawed will watch it get federally outlawed.
Maybe the swing states don't swing back to Trump, but I'm not holding my breath.
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(02-27-2024, 11:26 AM)Nately120 Wrote: That's why we have a system where Trump can and probably will lose the popular vote by 5+ million votes and still win because EC and Biden being old and unpopular and THEN even the red states that don't want this stuff to be outlawed will watch it get federally outlawed.
Maybe the swing states don't swing back to Trump, but I'm not holding my breath.
IT's all a master plan, any swing states in doubt will get over run with immigrants from Tx.
People complaining that Abbot has spent $150M busing immigrants all around using tax payer money.. yet the cities that got the immigrants are talking about the Billions they will need to support a fraction of the immigrants that he bused to their cities. Looks like he saved Tx several Billion in tax payer money. Good ROI.
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Interesting doesn't seem like it prevents IVF.. Just prevents Octo-moms by not allowing as many eggs to be implanted as before.
I also believe that frozen Eggs/Sperm should be protected. Some people use this as a method for saving their eggs/sperm in the event that something happens and they can no longer produce naturally and desire a child at a later time in their lives. The companies involved are paid to protect those assets, if someone willingly destroys them, then yes they should be charged with something.
Maybe i'm not as current on this example, but didn't the person that got charged willingly destroyed someone else's eggs?
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(03-01-2024, 12:54 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Interesting doesn't seem like it prevents IVF.. Just prevents Octo-moms by not allowing as many eggs to be implanted as before.
I also believe that frozen Eggs/Sperm should be protected. Some people use this as a method for saving their eggs/sperm in the event that something happens and they can no longer produce naturally and desire a child at a later time in their lives. The companies involved are paid to protect those assets, if someone willingly destroys them, then yes they should be charged with something.
Maybe i'm not as current on this example, but didn't the person that got charged willingly destroyed someone else's eggs?
The case is over which statute applies. I would suspect a shear negligence case pays out differently than harm to an unborn child does.
There are now rules in place guiding how many embryos can be implanted at any one time. While a doctor can’t go to jail he can be sued for malpractice if he implants more than 2 at a time.
The problem is what happens to stored embryos that don’t get used. Right now the parent(s) can have them destroyed. But Alabama just nixed that. So they get stored until the end of time? Storing embryos isn’t free which is why parents don’t want to keep them forever
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(03-01-2024, 02:29 AM)pally Wrote: The case is over which statute applies. I would suspect a shear negligence case pays out differently than harm to an unborn child does.
There are now rules in place guiding how many embryos can be implanted at any one time. While a doctor can’t go to jail he can be sued for malpractice if he implants more than 2 at a time.
The problem is what happens to stored embryos that don’t get used. Right now the parent(s) can have them destroyed. But Alabama just nixed that. So they get stored until the end of time? Storing embryos isn’t free which is why parents don’t want to keep them forever
Not exactly.
Here is the deal with the Alabama ruling. There is an Alabama law about the wrongful death of a child. Seems like a pretty standard law, no big deal. However, what the Alabama supreme court ruled was that the law applies to the frozen embryos, calling them children under the law. This paralyzed IVF in the state because during the process, accidents happen and not just from negligence. During the process there are times where an embryo might stick to the inside of the syringe, for example. Nothing can be done about this but under this ruling it could open up the IVF clinics to liability under this law. So, while I am sure that negligence or intentional acts would pay out differently, the liability from just the normal issues that can arise in the process is too concerning for IVF facilities right now.
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(03-01-2024, 07:57 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Not exactly.
Here is the deal with the Alabama ruling. There is an Alabama law about the wrongful death of a child. Seems like a pretty standard law, no big deal. However, what the Alabama supreme court ruled was that the law applies to the frozen embryos, calling them children under the law. This paralyzed IVF in the state because during the process, accidents happen and not just from negligence. During the process there are times where an embryo might stick to the inside of the syringe, for example. Nothing can be done about this but under this ruling it could open up the IVF clinics to liability under this law. So, while I am sure that negligence or intentional acts would pay out differently, the liability from just the normal issues that can arise in the process is too concerning for IVF facilities right now.
That i can understand, but they also said lowering the number of fertilized eggs into the mother in order to lower the count that doesn't survive the process meaning that there is acceptable risks involved in the procedure. Things beyond their control would fall into that category.. kinda common sense there. No one is going to intentionally make an embryo stick to the syringe.
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(02-25-2024, 01:26 PM)GMDino Wrote: <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
She needs to lose her seat in the next election.
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