$15/hr minimum wage

[*Nately120*]

Our culture seems way too reliant upon low skill work to treat it like it should be nothing more than a 17 year old's side gig.

[*michaelsean*]

(08-14-2018, 05:23 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I do consider all businesses.  That is why I said they would not struggle as long as the rules were the same for everyone in their area.


Why are businesses so much more important than people to you?

I said consider both because as I have said repeatedly all I hear is how giant companies can afford something.  And no just because it's the same in an area doesn't mean they won't struggle.  With that logic, you could make the minimum wage $50 and as long as everyone has to pay it, then no problem.  People will find alternatives if your prices are too high.  If businesses close because you raise their labor costs by 30% and they can't pass it on, then everyone loses.

[Belsnickel]

(08-14-2018, 05:17 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Oh so your job was to stand around and watch me pack my groceries.    (Wait for the wink)

I am sitting on the urge to rant about people that don't help bag their own damn groceries when there is not a separate bagger from the cashier.

[fredtoast]

(08-14-2018, 05:33 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I said consider both because as I have said repeatedly all I hear is how giant companies can afford something.  And no just because it's the same in an area doesn't mean they won't struggle.  With that logic, you could make the minimum wage $50 and as long as everyone has to pay it, then no problem.  People will find alternatives if your prices are too high.  If businesses close because you raise their labor costs by 30% and they can't pass it on, then everyone loses.

I can't follow your argument.  Are you talking about the weaker competitors being driven out of business or are you talking about entire industries being eliminated?

[*michaelsean*]

(08-14-2018, 05:49 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I can't follow your argument.  Are you talking about the weaker competitors being driven out of business or are you talking about entire industries being eliminated?

i am talking about your average business where the owner is making 5 figures, and often less than $50,000. 

Like when you said corporations are making record profits off cheap labor. That’s a few hundred businesses on the stock exchange.All I'm asking is that people consider small businesses when they argue for changes in law.  That's it.

[*michaelsean*]

(08-14-2018, 05:49 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I am sitting on the urge to rant about people that don't help bag their own damn groceries when there is not a separate bagger from the cashier.

I do.  I was mostly kidding as it's usually they have like one bagger for the whole store.

[Benton]

(08-14-2018, 06:01 PM)michaelsean Wrote: i am talking about your average business where the owner is making 5 figures, and often less than $50,000. 

All I'm asking is that people consider small businesses when they argue for changes in law.  That's it.

I think a lot of it is industry specific, but I've said similar in the past.

Like the Dodd-Frank Act. I think it reigned in and put some necessary, basic safeguards on mega banks/credit groups. Unfortunately, it really hurt small banks. Same with some small industry, where it takes a herd of attorneys to fill out paperwork. Big companies can absorb that cost, but smaller businesses are hurt by it.

[Belsnickel]

(08-14-2018, 06:02 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I do.  I was mostly kidding as it's usually they have like one bagger for the whole store.

I was assuming you did, but your comment just made me think about those assholes that stand there.

[*Nately120*]

(08-14-2018, 06:45 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I was assuming you did, but your comment just made me think about those assholes that stand there.

I'll play devil's advocate here and I'll say I'm not a big fan of scanning or bagging my own groceries lest Waltz Mart etc. get the big idea that I'm willing to do other peoples' jobs for free so they can up their profits.  Perhaps we are talking about different things, though.

[Belsnickel]

(08-14-2018, 07:27 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I'll play devil's advocate here and I'll say I'm not a big fan of scanning or bagging my own groceries lest Waltz Mart etc. get the big idea that I'm willing to do other peoples' jobs for free so they can up their profits.  Perhaps we are talking about different things, though.

So this is where there is a difference. Walmart, at least the ones here, have gone to carousel bagging racks. These allow for the cashier to easily scan and bag. However, if you go to the traditional registers where there is a chute or a belt down to a bagging area, it is just courteous to the cashier to give them a hand. I am also a reusable bag user, so it makes even more sense for me to bag my own in that situation.

[GMDino]

(08-14-2018, 05:12 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Maybe for them we should be looking at strengthening our social safety net so they don't have to continue to be in the workforce longer than our current system was designed for, putting a strain on our economy.


I won't be sitting around doing nothing. I will get up before sunrise, make my coffee, and head to a body of water with my fishing gear in tow. Then, after I finish my coffee, I will start on the beer in the cooler I brought with me. That'll be my retirement.

(08-14-2018, 05:15 PM)Nately120 Wrote: When I retire I will be recording multiple avant garde concept albums per year.  Perhaps we could corroborate in a manner which incorporates making coffee and fishing.  Hmm....

I'll probably be working up until lunchtime the day of my funeral....

[GMDino]

Just an intro to where this came from:  I am very fortunate in that I have a five minute drive to work every day.  That's a perk that I never want to give up!     But for the last couple weeks I had to drive my son to school in the morning and so my daily commute is now closer to 40 minutes.  (Still not bad compared to most, I know.)

But this morning I needed to be at work a wee bit earlier so I made sure I left earlier to leave room for traffic, lights, whatever might slow down the "normal" time it take to make the roundtrip.  

I was still at work right as we opened, rather than early, because I got caught behind someone driving slow AND hit all the lights AND people walking across the street AND....etc.

My point being that no matter how well prepared we make OURSELVES we are almost always at the mercy of outside forces that are beyond our control.  

It's the same in our careers.

That doesn't mean you stop preparing, or that you can never have things go your way.  It's just an acknowledgement that a precious few are born into situations that allow them to get a jump on the vast majority of us.  That a person can do everything within their power to better themself and still get caught up in the wash due to the actions of others.

That's why "rugged individualism" and "work harder" isn't the easy answer that some think it is.  

You should never stop trying or stop working harder...but we should also understand that just because people are poor or unsuccessful it is not just a result of what they did in all cases.

[*michaelsean*]

(08-15-2018, 10:10 AM)GMDino Wrote: Just an intro to where this came from:  I am very fortunate in that I have a five minute drive to work every day.  That's a perk that I never want to give up!     But for the last couple weeks I had to drive my son to school in the morning and so my daily commute is now closer to 40 minutes.  (Still not bad compared to most, I know.)

But this morning I needed to be at work a wee bit earlier so I made sure I left earlier to leave room for traffic, lights, whatever might slow down the "normal" time it take to make the roundtrip.  

I was still at work right as we opened, rather than early, because I got caught behind someone driving slow AND hit all the lights AND people walking across the street AND....etc.

My point being that no matter how well prepared we make OURSELVES we are almost always at the mercy of outside forces that are beyond our control.  

It's the same in our careers.

That doesn't mean you stop preparing, or that you can never have things go your way.  It's just an acknowledgement that a precious few are born into situations that allow them to get a jump on the vast majority of us.  That a person can do everything within their power to better themself and still get caught up in the wash due to the actions of others.

That's why "rugged individualism" and "work harder" isn't the easy answer that some think it is.  

You should never stop trying or stop working harder...but we should also understand that just because people are poor or unsuccessful it is not just a result of what they did in all cases.

What kind of draconian school does your son go to that he's been in school a couple of weeks?

[GMDino]

(08-15-2018, 10:20 AM)michaelsean Wrote: What kind of draconian school does your son go to that he's been in school a couple of weeks?

Two weeks of band camp.  Marching band is a year round thing these days!

[*michaelsean*]

(08-15-2018, 10:24 AM)GMDino Wrote: Two weeks of band camp.  Marching band is a year round thing these days!

Does he have a flute?

Dammit I don't know how to post pics from google image anymore.

[Belsnickel]

(08-15-2018, 10:20 AM)michaelsean Wrote: What kind of draconian school does your son go to that he's been in school a couple of weeks?

Shit, one of the counties around here actually did start their school year a couple of weeks ago.

[GMDino]

(08-15-2018, 10:29 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Does he have a flute?

Dammit I don't know how to post pics from google image anymore.

Never heard that one before.  

He's percussion though.

(08-15-2018, 10:32 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Shit, one of the counties around here actually did start their school year a couple of weeks ago.

My father in law said the district he's in in Florida started too.  

[*michaelsean*]

(08-15-2018, 10:58 AM)GMDino Wrote: Never heard that one before.  

He's percussion though.


My father in law said the district he's in in Florida started too.  

I knew it was totally original.  You were probably like 'What the hell is he talking about?  Wait I have a vague remembrance of something having to do with band camp and a flute."

[GMDino]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/real-estate/2018/08/15/cities-where-middle-class-can-no-longer-afford-home-prices/37105219/

Quote:Priced out of the market? Cities where the middle class can no longer afford a home

According to the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development, families that pay more than 30 percent of their incomes on housing are considered cost burdened and may have difficulty affording rent as well as other necessities such as food, clothing, transportation, and medical care. While the poorest families are the most likely to be housing-cost burdened, skyrocketing home prices in U.S. metropolitan areas have caused the nation’s housing affordability crisis to spread to a large number of middle class Americans.

While the housing cost burden for low-income households is often offset through housing subsidies, there are few forces protecting middle-income households from the rising cost of real estate. Fast-growing cities with high construction costs and low housing inventories have experienced some of the sharpest spikes in home prices over the past several decades, and today these cities have some of the largest shares of cost-burdened middle-class households.


To determine the cities where the middle class can no longer afford a home, 24/7 Wall Street reviewed the share of households earning $45,000 to $74,999 annually that spend at least 30 percent of their incomes on housing in the 100 largest U.S. metropolitan areas. Data came from “The State of the Nation’s Housing 2018” report of the Joint Center for Housing Studies of Harvard University. There are 20 metro areas in which more than 30 percent of households in the income bracket spend at least 30 percent of their incomes on housing.


More: What city is adding the most jobs in your state? A look at who's hiring


Definitions of the middle class vary by housing organization and geography. Nationwide, the middle 20 percent of U.S. households earn between $45,325 and $72,384, roughly in line with the $45,000-$74,999 breakout provided by the JCHS. While the incomes earned by the middle class of earners varies by city to city, the $45,000-$74,999 range was used throughout this analysis as an approximation of the American middle class.

The top 20 are listed at the link.

[Belsnickel]