1st Debate Scorecard

[Dill]

Can't believe I'm the first to start a thread on this.

My winners are Warren and Castro.

Booker could work as a VP, but not president. (Hang in there, C!)

Klobuchar hung in there, but less policy substance than the rest. Not stupid though.

Ryan and Beto need to cut their loses. Hora de irse Beto. Run in Texas; help get the Senate back or nothing changes.

The rest of the field--how will they do when the debates move beyond sound bites?

CNN: response group of Iowa voters unanimously impressed with Warren, Castro a close second, then Booker, Inslee.

Fox: surprised at the "extremism" and "class war." Shannon made sure to interview DeBlasio. One Republican operative says "Donald Trump won tonight."

I have difficulty imagining what a debate between Bernie and Warren would be like.

[GMDino]

(06-27-2019, 01:27 AM)Dill Wrote: Can't believe I'm the first to start a thread on this.

My winners are Warren and Castro.

Booker could work as a VP, but not president. (Hang in there, C!)

Klobuchar hung in there, but less policy substance than the rest. Not stupid though.

Ryan and Beto need to cut their loses. Hora de irse Beto. Run in Texas; help get the Senate back or nothing changes.

The rest of the field--how will they do when the debates move beyond sound bites?

CNN: response group of Iowa voters unanimously impressed with Warren, Castro a close second, then Booker, Inslee.

Fox: surprised at the "extremism" and "class war." Shannon made sure to interview DeBlasio. One Republican operative says "Donald Trump won tonight."

I have difficulty imagining what a debate between Bernie and Warren would be like.

I was out and away from the television until almost midnight.  I'll catch up later this week probably.

First thing I read this morning said Booker won and then it was Castro after that, but I didn't do a deep dive.

[CJD]

Winners: Warren, Castro
Losers: O'Rourke, Inslee, Ryan, Delaney

I considered putting Gabbard in the winner's column, but her moment with Ryan was more an indictment on him rather than a huge bonus for her (pointing out that the Taliban are not the same as Al Qaeda is kind of common sense) and she didn't really stand out outside of that one moment. She did say something I think a lot of people can relate to regarding growing up in a conservative household and changing her views when she became an adult, but that doesn't explain her stances on Gay Marriage as an adult who was already running for office.

Warren really shined in the first hour of the debate. Her stances were clear and her reasoning at least sounded good. She kind of faded in the second hour, but she had so many questions asked directly to her in the first half, it may have been a moderator choice to kind of avoid her in the second hour.

Castro was a huge winner in the immigration debate, pointing out section 1325, which I imagine a lot of viewers didn't know anything about. He was also one of the three speaking Spanish, which was a nice touch, but it didn't come off as pandering like it did with O'Rourke and Booker.

Klobuchar had a few good zingers, but she was so middle of the road that she didn't really catch my attention on policies.

O'Rourke refusing to answer the question about 70% top tax bracket for the ultra rich was really ***** obnoxious and basically marred his entire debate for me. It's fine if you don't agree with Elizabeth Warren. A lot of people don't. But just state your stance, you big dumb idiot.

Inslee basically didn't speak except for the Climate change piece, which is his wheelhouse. His whole "I did more for women's rights" thing was kind of dumb and his answer to the biggest threat to our nation being Donald Trump made me laugh, but it also made me wonder if he's even trying.

Ryan sounded good at the beginning, especially about how to reclaim the midwest (of which he is a part), but that Taliban gaff was horrible and the look on his face afterwards will resonate with people. That "I can't believe I don't know what I'm talking about" look will hurt him a lot.

Delaney's creepy smile made me unable to hear a thing he even said. So I just assume it was bad. His constant insistence to get a word in was also a tad bit desperate, or at least that's what it seemed like to me.

Booker didn't even get on my radar. I can't remember anything he said. Which is odd because he apparently spoke the most of any candidate last night. How can you talk so much and say so little? Can't label him a loser because I don't think he did anything to decrease his odds, but he isn't really relevant in my opinion.

De Blasio was surprisingly good, as he consistently talked about how the Democratic party is supposed to be the party of the working class and all that. I really liked those talking points because I do have my concerns about the Democratic establishment (and is the main reason I consider myself a left independent who is essentially forced to vote democratic, rather than actual democrat), but the fact that he's unpopular in his own city is a stigma he was unable to shake last night.

[Belsnickel]

Didn't watch it. I'm not going to bother watching these debates until the field is whittled down, if I watch them then. Just not a fan of the reality television circus that is a political debate.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

Tulsi Gabbard, political differences aside, is the only one of them I could vote for. The Democratic party is going in a direction that I have a hard time imagining them getting any support from me in the near future. A large group of my friends got together in Palm Springs the weekend before last and were discussing politics one morning. All of us voted Dem in our youth and none of us can stomach the direction the party is currently headed in.

[*michaelsean*]

Holy crap it's June. Summer. How are you guys watching this?

[Dill]

(06-27-2019, 09:07 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Ryan sounded good at the beginning, especially about how to reclaim the midwest (of which he is a part), but that Taliban gaff was horrible and the look on his face afterwards will resonate with people. That "I can't believe I don't know what I'm talking about" look will hurt him a lot.

A guy who uses Fox talking points as his policy baseline is off my list immediately. LOL Taliban could grow big and hit us again if we leave A-stan.

Good that Gabbard knows the difference between Taliban and Al Qaeda. But no one who wants to just pull out of Afghanistan because "we've been there so long" has sufficient grasp of foreign policy.

[CJD]

(06-27-2019, 11:40 AM)Dill Wrote: A guy who uses Fox talking points as his policy baseline is off my list immediately. LOL Taliban could grow big and hit us again if we leave A-stan.

Good that Gabbard knows the difference between Taliban and Al Qaeda. But no one who wants to just pull out of Afghanistan because "we've been there so long" has sufficient grasp of foreign policy.

She takes Anti-imperialism to a whole new level. Let's not forget that she said Syrian Leader Bashar Al-Assad is not America's enemy.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(06-27-2019, 09:07 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Castro was a huge winner in the immigration debate, pointing out section 1325, which I imagine a lot of viewers didn't know anything about. He was also one of the three speaking Spanish, which was a nice touch, but it didn't come off as pandering like it did with O'Rourke and Booker.

What's so special about that?
Most people know this stuff already.

[CJD]

(06-27-2019, 01:28 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: What's so special about that?
Most people know this stuff already.

You really overestimate people.

[BmorePat87]

(06-27-2019, 09:09 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Didn't watch it. I'm not going to bother watching these debates until the field is whittled down, if I watch them then. Just not a fan of the reality television circus that is a political debate.

I MIGHT watch tonight, but I am more interested in town halls until it narrows.

(06-27-2019, 09:30 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Tulsi Gabbard, political differences aside, is the only one of them I could vote for.  The Democratic party is going in a direction that I have a hard time imagining them getting any support from me in the near future.  A large group of my friends got together in Palm Springs the weekend before last and were discussing politics one morning.  All of us voted Dem in our youth and none of us can stomach the direction the party is currently headed in.

Any millennial who was once at the far end of the anti-gay spectrum will always be a no for me, but is Buttigieg not in the conversation? He's fairly moderate but in a different way than Gabbard. 

[Mike M (the other one)]

(06-27-2019, 02:14 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: You really overestimate people.

Really?
Most of my friends all know this. The only ones that I've seen that don't know this are usually Hollywood/Dems who think it's a right of an Illegal to be here?

[GMDino]

(06-27-2019, 02:39 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Really?
Most of my friends all know this. The only ones that I've seen that don't know this are usually Hollywood/Dems who think it's a right of an Illegal to be here?

And a few people on this board....

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(06-27-2019, 02:17 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I MIGHT watch tonight, but I am more interested in town halls until it narrows.


Any millennial who was once at the far end of the anti-gay spectrum will always be a no for me

Forgive me for saying this, but that's a rather narrow minded perspective and, IMO, completely ignores the ability of a human being to grow and change as they experience life.

Quote:but is Buttigieg not in the conversation? He's fairly moderate but in a different way than Gabbard. 

Buttigieg is an intelligent man with apparently zero policy ideas or positions.  I also don't appreciate his reaction to the police shooting in his city recently.  However, that's a minor, and obviously recent, concern for me.  Quite honestly the Democratic party is moving increasingly left and I strongly disagree with many of their policy positions such as healthcare for all with no private insurance, near unfettered immigration (legal or illegal), repaying student loans en masse for those who made poor decisions (for clarification I repaid all my student loans.  I also got myself into over $60k worth of credit card debt by the time I was 23.  It took a long time and a severe curtailing of my spending but I paid it off totally by my early thirties).  Lastly, their position on the criminal justice system is complete anathema to me.  The consequences of these policies is having severe effects in CA, WA and OR.  Not that they'll admit this in public though, ever.

[Aquapod770]

(06-27-2019, 09:07 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Winners: Warren, Castro
Losers: O'Rourke, Inslee, Ryan, Delaney

I considered putting Gabbard in the winner's column, but her moment with Ryan was more an indictment on him rather than a huge bonus for her (pointing out that the Taliban are not the same as Al Qaeda is kind of common sense) and she didn't really stand out outside of that one moment. She did say something I think a lot of people can relate to regarding growing up in a conservative household and changing her views when she became an adult, but that doesn't explain her stances on Gay Marriage as an adult who was already running for office.

Both Obama and Hilldog were against same sex marriage as adults (running for, and in, office). Idk why people knock Gabbard for that, but ignore it when it comes to Obama and Hilldog. 

Gabbard should be the dem front runner. She won't be, but she should. 

[Aquapod770]

(06-27-2019, 11:55 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: She takes Anti-imperialism to a whole new level. Let's not forget that she said Syrian Leader Bashar Al-Assad is not America's enemy.

She takes it to the level we should be at. 

America shouldn't be the world police. 

[CJD]

(06-27-2019, 02:39 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Really?
Most of my friends all know this. The only ones that I've seen that don't know this are usually Hollywood/Dems who think it's a right of an Illegal to be here?

Yes really.

The average voter is completely unaware of the issues and people they're voting on.

Just as an anecdotal case, look no further than the woman at Trump's re-election kick off rally who said she would vote for Trump because "He doesn't lie."

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/trump-fan-tells-msnbc-she-will-vote-for-trump-because-he-doesnt-lie/

I'm glad your friends are relatively well informed though.

[CJD]

(06-27-2019, 03:04 PM)Aquapod770 Wrote: She takes it to the level we should be at. 

America shouldn't be the world police. 

I'm against imperialism, but I also think atrocities should be addressed. Not necessarily with military force, but we do have allies in all regions of the world. When people are being murdered by their leaders, I generally consider that a bad thing that should be addressed in some way.

I don't dislike Gabbard though. I just think, as far as political stances go, she's the Bernie Sanders of Anti-Imperialism.

[CJD]

(06-27-2019, 03:02 PM)Aquapod770 Wrote: Both Obama and Hilldog were against same sex marriage as adults (running for, and in, office). Idk why people knock Gabbard for that, but ignore it when it comes to Obama and Hilldog. 

Gabbard should be the dem front runner. She won't be, but she should. 

Gabbard is also 20 to 30 years their junior. An edge-millennial who was outspokenly against Gay Marriage is a harder pill to swallow than a baby boomer having those beliefs.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(06-27-2019, 04:11 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Gabbard is also 20 to 30 years their junior. An edge-millennial who was outspokenly against Gay Marriage is a harder pill to swallow than a baby boomer having those beliefs.

She could always pull an Obama and state her position evolved after a conversation with her daughter.