We have had chances the previous years, but this year is THE year. Why do I say that? Because even the homerist of homers can agree that after THIS year, if the results are the same, something must be done. In previous years, there have been excuses of being young and inexperienced, and last year got a pass due to the large number of injuries. THIS year? There really is no excuse.
Honestly, being the homer I am, I am hoping the past four years were just act two of a three part play. The glory wouldn't be nearly as satisfying without all of the doubt and hate... maybe that's just me..... hoping for a Shakespeare-esque finish to what seems like a Shakespeare drama.
I haven't loved a Bengal team more than this current roster.. ever.... and I really hope they can cement their legacy as the one Bengal team to finally do it. If they don't then their legacy will go down as one of the most underachieving groups given their talent. I hope we eventually look back to the later 2010's as the golden age... one can dream :)
(09-10-2015, 03:39 PM)djs7685 Wrote: I like this game, let me try!
Marvin could have the most embarrassing primetime and postseason point spread (especially 2nd half of games) in NFL history - "fans" will still tell us to not sleep on Marvin and tell us how this is our year EVERY single year.
Andy could have one of the worst career postseason passer ratings in NFL history - "fans" will still deflect blame to others.
Mike could go a quarter of a century without a playoff win - idiots will still defend every move the team makes.
Herp derp, durrrrrrrr.
I have said multiple times that I am 50/50 on Marvin. I see the good, see the concerns.
Others outside of Andy should bear some of the postseason responsibility. Suggesting otherwise only shows a lack of knowledge on your part.
I don't think anyone has defended everything over Mike's 25-year control. To suggest that once again shows us more about you than anything else.
(09-10-2015, 03:44 PM)Who Dey Time Wrote: I have said multiple times that I am 50/50 on Marvin. I see the good, see the concerns.
Others outside of Andy should bear some of the postseason responsibility. Suggesting otherwise only shows a lack of knowledge on your part.
I don't think anyone has defended everything over Mike's 25-year control. To suggest that once again shows us more about you than anything else.
If you didn't understand the point of my post, then I'm afraid the only person lacking knowledge here would be you.
I'm sorry for not spelling things out more clearly for you. My post was making fun of yours, not to be taken 100% literally. I guess I should realize that my audience isn't always one that's capable of grasping obvious, extremely blatant parodies.
(09-10-2015, 03:51 PM)djs7685 Wrote: If you didn't understand the point of my post, then I'm afraid the only person lacking knowledge here would be you.
I'm sorry for not spelling things out more clearly for you. My post was making fun of yours, not to be taken 100% literally. I guess I should realize that my audience isn't always one that's capable of grasping obvious, extremely blatant parodies.
No I understood your lackluster attempt at jest. Sadly, though, what you posted has been stated many times through the various message boards. So, while you may have been joking, others are very serious when typing the exact same load of crap. Which proves the point of my post.
(09-10-2015, 03:58 PM)Who Dey Time Wrote: No I understood your lackluster attempt at jest. Sadly, though, what you posted has been stated many times through the various message boards. So, while you may have been joking, others are very serious when typing the exact same load of crap. Which proves the point of my post.
My main point is, you're just making shit up to complain about part of the fanbase.
If the Bengals win a Super Bowl under Marvin, people are obviously going to give the guy a hell of a lot more respect than they do now. Same with Andy, Mike, or whoever else you want to bring up in an attempt to bash people with baseless conjecture.
People complain because Marvin's teams look unprepared in primetime/playoff games. If Marvin's team shows up and wins a Super Bowl, per your example, a very, very large majority of people will completely change their mind about the guy. Yes, you'll probably see some idiots on Twitter and a couple people trolling these boards that say Marvin sucks no matter what, but why bother to make that post if it's only directed at people who aren't taken seriously to begin with?
If we win the Super Bowl in 2015 with Andy and Marvin, I guarantee that 100% of non-trolling Bengals fans will be happy with Andy and Marvin.
It is a good article, but I feel like this is just rinse and repeat.
We're entering year 5 of Dalton and we still have no idea if the guy is a franchise QB or not.
I agree that the free agent talk is BS. The majority of them are guys who are backups or just role players. With the way we've drafted, most of those roles should be filled with those players and then we can fill the rest of the spots with the draft and our bottom of the barrel scraping free agent signings.
As for Marvin, look I really appreciate how he's changed the culture and all of the stuff he's done for the team off the field. He has improved how we look on the field, but his game management leaves a lot to be desired. Bizarre timeout usage, the same expression no matter the scenario, the clapping, and "let's go!!!"
What happens if we do another one and done? Do we repeat this past offseason? Talk big, don't back it up, and then give him a 1 year extension to prevent the lame duck status?
I don't get the notion that we'll need to blow things up, but it wouldn't hurt to get some fresh blood in here.
You can always trust an dishonest man to be dishonest. Honestly, it's the honest ones you have to look out for.
"Winning makes believers of us all"-Paul Brown
(09-10-2015, 03:20 PM)Who Dey Time Wrote: Does it really matter? As Daugherty astutely points out, many have already formulated their opinion about this particular Bengals era.
Marvin could win the big one - "fans" will still consider him a big game bust, giggles, etc.
Andy could win the big one - "fans" will still present the same negatives they always do.
Mike could win the big one - idiots will still decry the stadium deal, cheapness, etc.
Thus, IMO, the legacy question is irrelevant. Having said that, 2015 could be a future defining season for many on this team including Marvin Lewis. That becomes the ultimate question.
On Marvin I disagree, but he'll never be held in as high a regard as any of the greats or near greats.
On Dalton it would come down to winning the big one because Dalton played well in the post season or if we won in spite of bad Andy showing up. Let's face it, up to now his post season performances have been very poor showings, as has the rest of the team. Which takes us back to Marvin.
On Mike Brown, for me it has nothing to do with the stadium or perceived cheapness, but has to do with the nose dive he flew the team into. He freakin' owes the fans a great deal. One great season in 24 tries just doesn't quite make up for through 2004.
(09-10-2015, 03:39 PM)djs7685 Wrote: I like this game, let me try!
Marvin could have the most embarrassing primetime and postseason point spread (especially 2nd half of games) in NFL history - "fans" will still tell us to not sleep on Marvin and tell us how this is our year EVERY single year.
Andy could have one of the worst career postseason passer ratings in NFL history - "fans" will still deflect blame to others.
Mike could go a quarter of a century without a playoff win - idiots will still defend every move the team makes.
Herp derp, durrrrrrrr.
Time is running out on Marvin to deliver, I really don't think there's any doubt about that. He's been given essentially everything he wants now, plus the time to do it. If they win the big one this year a lot credit has to go to him. Just think what the pre-Marvin Mikey Brown was like.
I put Dalton's stats on Dalton. I put the poor offensive and defensive play as a whole on the coaches, but each player deserves their share of responsibility. Dalton's 1TD, 6INTs and 4FUMs do stand out as glaringly poor. He can right it all this year, but I don't expect to see it. If we puts up another poor postseason game, we'll hear the same excuses from the few fans he'll have left; no weapons, someone or other fumbled the ball first, blah, blah, blah, broken record. But if he does play well we have to give him the credit for that.
I don't believe many defend Mikey B, except his family and employees who want to keep their jobs.
I do agree this is a legacy season. I expect if we have another season where we don't progress in the playoffs then we will be making some serious changes. I think that even Marvin Lewis is to the point that he wants to retire. I know he said that it was reliant on a super bowl win, but people don't talk about retirement if it isn't been under serious consideration. Either way some key guys are getting old and almost out of the league.
Some changes that could come next season:
Peko Gone
Whitworth Gone
Andre Smith Gone
Rey M. Gone
Zeitler Gone
Andy Dalton Gone
Coaching Changes
Marvin Lewis Gone
Hue Jackson Replaces him at Head Coach
Vance Joseph Takes over as Defensive Cordinator
These are all things that could happen. I am not saying they will or that I want them to, however all of these could happen.
One of the statements that stood out to me was: "...before the whole thing is blown to free agent smithereens."
If that's the team's plan, which I'm not sure it is, why didn't we spend our first two picks in the draft on players who will help us this year? Circumstances just beg the question.
The legacies for Marvin Lewis and Andy Dalton sure are wrapped up in this year. Laying complete rotten eggs in games this year isn't going to fly, regardless of who gets injured or how good the other teams turn out to be.
Mike Brown's legacy was written more than a decade ago when he nose dived the franchise and kept it at the bottom for 15 years. Bringing it part way back up just ain't good enough. Even a SB isn't good enough. Really, if the guy had any sense of honor for his father, he'd change his last name to Smith and move to Alaska and hide in a cabin where the roads freeze over in the winter.
Believe me, winning a SB would be enough. Do that and all the rest magically disappears. Then they can never say they couldn't do it.
“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe.” ― Albert Einstein
(09-10-2015, 12:48 PM)InTheJungleNow9 Wrote: This particular group's legacy has already been defined, and that is making the playoffs and losing first round. Whether we as Bengals fans like that or not, it is factual and how the rest of the league/media views us. Four years of the same is pretty defining in my eyes. Of course, every season is a chance to redefine that mold and this one is no different. But every year they don't exceed past successes is another that the legacy of almost good enough gets cemented deeper into the minds of everyone following this team.
This definition isn't static. It's fluid, therefore not a definition at all.
Until the current team is overhauled, they cannot be defined because the story is still being written.
There may be a perception but that certainly doesn't define them until it's over. And it's far from over.
I like Paul, I really do. He usually strikes well the tone of frustrated fan. But, his comment about never-ending contempt for Mike in the face of multiple championships is, without a doubt, a bunch of bullshit. If this regime were to actually win a Super Bowl, a statue of Mike/Marvin/Andy would be erected on Fountain Square the next effen day.
We just want a championship. Win one, and all is forgiven. True story.
“We're 2-7! What the **** difference does it make?!” - Bruce Coslet
(09-10-2015, 09:22 PM)Awful Llama Wrote: I like Paul, I really do. He usually strikes well the tone of frustrated fan. But, his comment about never-ending contempt for Mike in the face of multiple championships is, without a doubt, a bunch of bullshit. If this regime were to actually win a Super Bowl, a statue of Mike/Marvin/Andy would be erected on Fountain Square the next effen day.
We just want a championship. Win one, and all is forgiven. True story.
+25.
Yup. Total BS. If this team won a championship, the entire narrative of Mike, Marv and Dalton would change.
They'd all become local hero's and all would be forgiven. I have zero doubt about that.
I usually like Paul, but I disagree with him on this - and his crusade against Votto, but that's for a different thread.
The training, nutrition, medicine, fitness, playbooks and rules evolve. The athlete does not.
(09-10-2015, 02:11 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I've seen a few like Daugherty and Dehner talk about 30 free agents next year, as if the team is going to be blown up and this is their last shot. It's total bologna. According to Spotrac, here is a list of 21 players due to hit FA next year (starters in bold):
AJ Green- He'll get signed. If not he'll get tagged. He isn't going anywhere. Leon Hall- It's time to move on. He's making 9 million this year, so it'll actually be good for the team to have him off the books. Andre Smith- They pretty much drafted his replacement already. Andrew Whitworth- Same here, but he could be retained at a lesser rate than he currently makes. Reggie Nelson- He'll turn 33 early in the 2016 season. That's ancient for a safety. He's making 4.8 million this year. Could be had at a lesser rate. George Iloka- Making 1.5 million this year, he's due for a raise. Pacman Jones- Making 2.5 million this year. I don't see him getting much more on the open market with his age and history.
Marvin Jones- He hasn't done anything that will make him hard to retain. Mo Sanu- Same here. We'll keep at least 1 out of Jones and Sanu.
Pat Sims- I like him, but he's depth. Very replaceable.
Brandon Thompson- Same here.
Wallace Gilberry- He's had a good run here, but he'll turn 31 in December.
Vinny Rey- Meh.
Emmanuel Lamur- See ya.
Chris Carter- No matter what he does this year, he should be easy to retain.
Eric Winston- See ya.
Brandon Tate- See ya.
Jayson Dimanche- Bottom of the roster type.
Chris Lewis-Harris- Same here.
Greg Little- And here.
TJ Johnson- Here as well.
We have 8 current starters due to hit FA. Of those, 4 are over 30 and need replaced soon anyway. We'll be able to retain most of the players the FO wants to keep. Some at a lesser rate. IMO, AJ Green and Iloka should be the main priorities. They should also try to keep Pacman, Whit and either Sanu or MLJ around. Other than that, I'm not too concerned about the rest of these players. I'm sure it'll shake out just fine.
(09-10-2015, 11:33 PM)Slappy from New Haven Wrote: MLJ hasn't done anything?
Not enough to warrant a sizable second contract. Not yet at least. I'd guess he'd see about 2-3 mil per on the open market if free agency opened today.
Keep in mind, the guy has less than 1,000 yards, TOTAL, in his entire CAREER. Never had an 800 yard season. Only 69 career catches. We can only speculate about how good he can be. But contracts are generally based on actual performance. He just doesn't have the numbers to support the idea that his upcoming deal is one that will break the bank.
(09-11-2015, 12:00 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Not enough to warrant a sizable second contract. Not yet at least. I'd guess he'd see about 2-3 mil per on the open market if free agency opened today.
Keep in mind, the guy has less than 1,000 yards, TOTAL, in his entire CAREER. Never had an 800 yard season. Only 69 career catches. We can only speculate about how good he can be. But contracts are generally based on actual performance. He just doesn't have the numbers to support the idea that his upcoming deal is one that will break the bank.
Exactly what I meant, thanks.
The training, nutrition, medicine, fitness, playbooks and rules evolve. The athlete does not.
One of the statements that stood out to me was: "...before the whole thing is blown to free agent smithereens."
If that's the team's plan, which I'm not sure it is, why didn't we spend our first two picks in the draft on players who will help us this year? Circumstances just beg the question.
The legacies for Marvin Lewis and Andy Dalton sure are wrapped up in this year. Laying complete rotten eggs in games this year isn't going to fly, regardless of who gets injured or how good the other teams turn out to be.
Mike Brown's legacy was written more than a decade ago when he nose dived the franchise and kept it at the bottom for 15 years. Bringing it part way back up just ain't good enough. Even a SB isn't good enough. Really, if the guy had any sense of honor for his father, he'd change his last name to Smith and move to Alaska and hide in a cabin where the roads freeze over in the winter.
That is my problem with this organization. It always seems to be about "building for the future". I personally think they need to be more concerned with the here and now.
The cap is going to continue to go up and the team has a lot of contracts coming off. As others have said, it's not like they put new contracts on top of the old ones. I am new to this board, but was on the other for about seven years. It's always the same story... "the team has no money", "how can they sign anyone with contracts coming up", "it's a small market". If they lose many in free agency, then it is a choice to do so.
(09-10-2015, 02:11 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I've seen a few like Daugherty and Dehner talk about 30 free agents next year, as if the team is going to be blown up and this is their last shot. It's total bologna. According to Spotrac, here is a list of 21 players due to hit FA next year (starters in bold):
AJ Green- He'll get signed. If not he'll get tagged. He isn't going anywhere. Leon Hall- It's time to move on. He's making 9 million this year, so it'll actually be good for the team to have him off the books. Andre Smith- They pretty much drafted his replacement already. Andrew Whitworth- Same here, but he could be retained at a lesser rate than he currently makes. Reggie Nelson- He'll turn 33 early in the 2016 season. That's ancient for a safety. He's making 4.8 million this year. Could be had at a lesser rate. George Iloka- Making 1.5 million this year, he's due for a raise. Pacman Jones- Making 2.5 million this year. I don't see him getting much more on the open market with his age and history.
Marvin Jones- He hasn't done anything that will make him hard to retain. Mo Sanu- Same here. We'll keep at least 1 out of Jones and Sanu.
Pat Sims- I like him, but he's depth. Very replaceable.
Brandon Thompson- Same here.
Wallace Gilberry- He's had a good run here, but he'll turn 31 in December.
Vinny Rey- Meh.
Emmanuel Lamur- See ya.
Chris Carter- No matter what he does this year, he should be easy to retain.
Eric Winston- See ya.
Brandon Tate- See ya.
Jayson Dimanche- Bottom of the roster type.
Chris Lewis-Harris- Same here.
Greg Little- And here.
TJ Johnson- Here as well.
We have 8 current starters due to hit FA. Of those, 4 are over 30 and need replaced soon anyway. We'll be able to retain most of the players the FO wants to keep. Some at a lesser rate. IMO, AJ Green and Iloka should be the main priorities. They should also try to keep Pacman, Whit and either Sanu or MLJ around. Other than that, I'm not too concerned about the rest of these players. I'm sure it'll shake out just fine.
I think Marvin jones will only be an RFA as last year he never played so he wont have 4 years needed to be an UFA
(09-11-2015, 10:40 AM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: That is my problem with this organization. It always seems to be about "building for the future". I personally think they need to be more concerned with the here and now.
The cap is going to continue to go up and the team has a lot of contracts coming off. As others have said, it's not like they put new contracts on top of the old ones. I am new to this board, but was on the other for about seven years. It's always the same story... "the team has no money", "how can they sign anyone with contracts coming up", "it's a small market". If they lose many in free agency, then it is a choice to do so.
Keeping some of the older guys and letting them younger ones go kinda shows they are more concerned with the here and now. or we would be trying to get the younger guys more expirence.. At the same time you have to plan for the years ahead or you're just shooting yourself in the foot.
(09-11-2015, 05:13 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: I think Marvin jones will only be an RFA as last year he never played so he wont have 4 years needed to be an UFA
I don't understand why you're so hung up on this even though multiple people have said it. He will NOT be a restricted free agent. Him being on IR last year has zilch to do with that.
You can always trust an dishonest man to be dishonest. Honestly, it's the honest ones you have to look out for.
"Winning makes believers of us all"-Paul Brown
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