2020 Election

[Au165]

(11-06-2020, 04:22 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Personally I'm happy to see some people in positions of authority on the Right are calling Trump on his rhetoric

...but where has it been for 4 years?  Doing it now while the ship is going down gets them no credit.

[Bengalholic]

Damn, just got around to watching that Trump news conference. I don't care what your party affiliation is, that was astoundingly embarrassing. Hell, even people on Fox, like Brett Baier and Trey Gowdy, are saying they've seen no actual 'evidence' of fraud and saying Trump should slow down on the accusations of such. 

Listening to Trump during that debacle of a presser, my wife brought up an interesting point: it's funny that the only states experiencing 'voter fraud' are the states he's currently losing in or are too close to call. Incredibly convenient that there's no nefarious counting / fraud in the states he won?   

[GMDino]

(11-06-2020, 04:30 PM)Au165 Wrote: ...but where has it been for 4 years?  Doing it now while the ship is going down gets them no credit.

And Graham and Cruz aren't exact B-listers and they're out there, on television, agreeing with Trump.

I'm sure Gaetz and Jordan will up next.

[Brownshoe]

(11-06-2020, 04:14 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Fracking has also caused a 900% increase in earthquakes in Oklahoma.  This is not a crazy internet claim.  It is ytrue and even the oil companies have admitted it.


 

If a farmer can not afford to pay the taxes on a farm he gets FOR FREE then he does not deserve to own a farm.  Also all gain of value (capital gains) is TAX FREE when a farmer inherits a $10 million dollar farm his daddy bought for $200K.  

It cracks me up when farmers start crying about having to pay inheritance taxes in order to get millions of dollars of property FOR FREE.


People who have to work to get millions of dollars have to pay taxes on that income.  Why shouldn't people who get millions of dollars of property for free also have to pay taxes on it.



The clean water act did nothing for people who live in cities.  What it did was help make sure the farmers who needed the water from these streams were not poisoning there crops or live stock with pollution.



Exactly.  And that is why we have a federal government to do what is best for THE ENTIRE COUNTRY.  Each state is free to elect whoever thy want for their own state.  BUt when it comes to electing a President who is responsible for the entire nation the votes of people in less populated states should not count more than the people from more populated states..   

There are lots of decisions that effect different parts of the country different ways, but when deciding what is bets for the entire country the vote of each individual should count the same.

Yes, fracking is literally causing earthquakes. That's what fracking is. Most of the earthquakes are 1 or less on their scale.

Lol I guess most farmers shouldn't have a farm. That's pretty ridiculous. I would agree if farmers actually made some money, but I guess it's great to kill the people that feed the country. That makes you seem pretty insane honestly.

But the people in cities decided to approve the clean water act when the farmers hated it. They took the streams that was on their land and claimed it as federal land. That's straight up BS.

The votes and the voices of states are all that matters for a federal republic president. Every state has electoral college votes depending on the population. The thing is because we live in a federal republic California's votes don't bleed into other states. Every state picks who they want and whoever gets the most points wins. If that wasn't the case the country would be ruled by the coasts and the heartland would have very little say. It's fair how we have it now because every state has a voice in our federal republic and every state could he the determining factor in the election of a president. So the President actually has to worry about the heartland too, so they can get their votes.

[*bfine32*]

(11-06-2020, 04:06 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: There is a significant difference between making a mistake and admitting I used the wrong term as I did and intentionally telling lie, after lie, after lie about three different college courses you never took in order to introduce white nationalist propaganda about the scientific definition of race as you did. But, I understand the need for your charade. Which is another reason why my vote should count 27,000 times more than yours.

Also the maximum rate of fire for an M4 is the same whether it is correctly termed cyclic as you corrected my mistaken use of cyclical. Would you like to tell me that rate or are you still too chickenshit to answer?

I'll take time to entertain you; as ignoring or reporting you has proven fruitless.

I have 0 idea why my perhaps using the term anthropology instead of biology as the name of a class I took years ago. It was a science class in which we did studies of forensics. 

Are you suggesting I did this because I'm racist? 

As to being "chickenshit"; for real? 

[Au165]

(11-06-2020, 04:33 PM)GMDino Wrote: And Graham and Cruz aren't exact B-listers and they're out there, on television, agreeing with Trump.

I'm sure Gaetz and Jordan will up next.

The state legislature in Pennsylvania should immediately launch an investigation into voter fraud allegations in their state.

They should not appoint electors until the investigation has concluded.

PA will forever be maligned as the epicenter of fraud if they don't take action.

— Rep. Matt Gaetz (@RepMattGaetz) November 6, 2020

 

Will Pennsylvania’s Speaker of the House and Majority Leader call for an audit of the election in their state?

Ballot integrity!

— Rep. Jim Jordan (@Jim_Jordan) November 6, 2020

[GMDino]

(11-06-2020, 04:43 PM)Au165 Wrote:

The state legislature in Pennsylvania should immediately launch an investigation into voter fraud allegations in their state.

They should not appoint electors until the investigation has concluded.

PA will forever be maligned as the epicenter of fraud if they don't take action.

— Rep. Matt Gaetz (@RepMattGaetz) November 6, 2020

 

Will Pennsylvania’s Speaker of the House and Majority Leader call for an audit of the election in their state?

Ballot integrity!

— Rep. Jim Jordan (@Jim_Jordan) November 6, 2020

[*bfine32*]

(11-06-2020, 04:30 PM)Au165 Wrote: ...but where has it been for 4 years?  Doing it now while the ship is going down gets them no credit.

I remember early in the election cycle when Trump first hinted at a non-peaceful transition. McConnell said that's wrong. Transition will be peaceful.

I didn't ask for anyone to give credit. I asked was it a fair statement to say GOP members of authority are calling out Trump on voter fraud more than Dems did on collusion? 

[*bfine32*]

(11-06-2020, 04:33 PM)GMDino Wrote: And Graham and Cruz aren't exact B-listers and they're out there, on television, agreeing with Trump.

I'm sure Gaetz and Jordan will up next.

Hey you and Don Jr. have something in common. It appears neither of you are happy with Graham's response:

https://news.yahoo.com/no-one-surprised-trump-jr-013715121.html?

Quote:'No one is surprised': Trump Jr hits out at Lindsey Graham failing to echo unfounded voter fraud claims

[Au165]

(11-06-2020, 04:48 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I didn't ask for anyone to give credit. I asked was it a fair statement to say GOP members of authority are calling out Trump on voter fraud more than Dems did on collusion? 

Actually, you said...

Quote:Personally I'm happy to see some people in positions of authority on the Right are calling Trump on his rhetoric

To which I said "where was it the last 4 years?"

The red herring sidebar you tried to get going really isn't relevant, which is why I haven't engaged in it. His "Rhetoric" has been dangerous for four years and a passing disagreement of it over 4 years wasn't speaking out, and putting a stop to it. The party is about to get everything it deserves for selling itself to the devil, including the devil and his children trying to destroy it as they get shown the door.

Did you see Matt Gaet is writing a book? I am sure that won't have anything interesting in it.

[GMDino]

(11-06-2020, 04:52 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Hey you and Don Jr. have something in common. It appears neither of you are happy with Graham's response:

https://news.yahoo.com/no-one-surprised-trump-jr-013715121.html?

Hey maybe this will make Jr. happy?

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/lindsey-graham-500g-donation-trump-2020-campaign-legal-challenges

Quote:Graham announces $500G donation to Trump campaign legal efforts, calls Philly elections 'crooked as a snake'

'I'm here tonight to stand with President Trump,' Graham tells 'Hannity'
By Charles Creitz | Fox News

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Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., told "Hannity" Thursday he will donate $500,000 to the Trump campaign's legal efforts to challenge election procedures in multiple states, including Pennsylvania, Michigan and Nevada.

"I'm here tonight to stand with President Trump," Graham told host Sean Hannity. "He stood with me, he's the reason we're going to have a Senate majority ... He helped Senate Republicans. We're going to pick up House seats because of the campaign that President Trump won."

Discussing the ongoing ballot counting in Philadelphia that has shrunk the president's lead over Democrat Joe Biden, Graham described elections in the City of Brotherly Love as being "crooked as a snake."
[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.2)]Video
Earlier Thursday, one Pennsylvania Republican lawmaker called on Secretary of the Commonwealth Kathy Boockvar, the cabinet official who oversees elections, to resign, saying that she had "failed to deploy even the minimum safeguards to secure [Pennsylvania's] election."

State Sen. Doug Mastriano compared the Pennsylvania election process to one he observed as a U.S. Army officer in Afghanistan.[/color]

"ISAF [International Security Assistance Force] provided oversight and security to Afghan elections -- a country that had never witnessed an honest election ... the elections that we oversaw were safe and fair," Mastriano wrote.

CLICK HERE TO GET THE FOX NEWS APP

"I wish I could say the same for the elections in Pennsylvania during your time as secretary," the retired colonel continued in part.

Graham also had harsh words on "Hannity" for public pollsters who predicted he and some of his Republican colleagues would face close races or lose their seats.

"Mainstream media polling is designed to suppress Republican votes," he said. "I won by 11, Susan [Collins] won by seven or eight [in Maine] and Mitch [McConnell] won by 21 [in Kentucky]. It's a game they play to depress the Republican vote."

I admit it was nice to see some kind of support for your attempt though. 

[Au165]

https://www.businessinsider.com/newt-gingrich-asks-attorney-general-bill-barr-arrest-poll-workers-2020-11

Quote:
Citing zero evidence, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich asks Attorney General Bill Barr to send federal agents to arrest election workers in Pennsylvania

Former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich has asked Attorney General Bill Barr to send federal agents to Pennsylvania to arrest poll workers, claiming the state's voting system is "corrupt." He cited no evidence to back his claim.


In an interview with Fox News on Thursday night, host Sean Hannity and Gingrich discussed the Trump campaign's lawsuits in Michigan, Georgia, and Pennsylvania, which came after President-elect Joe Biden took the lead in several battleground states on Wednesday.

According to one lawsuit filed, Trump's team complained that their poll watchers in Pennsylvania weren't allowed to be close enough to observe the ballot counting. One court has ruled that candidates' designated observers must be allowed to watch the vote-counting. Counting has proceeded on that basis.

"Is that a violation of law? And how do you remedy that?" Hannity asked Gingrich, according to the Daily Beast.

"The Philadelphia machine is corrupt. The Atlanta machine is corrupt. The machine in Detroit is corrupt. And they are trying to steal the presidency. And we should not allow them to do that," Gingrich responded.
In reality, no charges have been brought, and no civil lawsuit has been filed, that suggests any poll workers are "corrupt."

But Gingrich continued. "First of all, under federal law, we should lock up the people who are breaking the law," he continued. "You stop somebody from being an observer, you just broke federal law. Do you hide and put up papers so nobody can see what you're doing? You just broke federal law. You bring in ballots that aren't real? You just broke federal law."

When asked by Hannity how to fix such a problem, Gingrich goes on to say that the "first answer" is to look at the attorney general, who "issued an order that federal agents can carry guns in the pursuit of people who are breaking the law."

The attorney general has not made any such orders.

Gingrich's comments come after the Trump campaign filed lawsuits in Michigan, Georgia, and Pennsylvania to halt the states' vote counts. It has also called for a recount in Wisconsin. Here is a list of all the lawsuits and where they stand.

Gingrich was the Speaker of the House of Representatives from 1995 to 1999. He was a Republican representative for Georgia's 6th congressional district serving north Atlanta and nearby areas for 20 years until his resignation in 1999.

Biden surpassed the 270 electoral votes required to win the White House as of Friday afternoon, according to projections by Decision Desk HQ. 

In the popular vote, the Democratic nominee won 4 million more votes than Trump as of Friday, a lead that's likely to grow as states finalize their results in the coming days and weeks.

[*bfine32*]

(11-06-2020, 04:56 PM)Au165 Wrote: Actually, you said...



To which I said "where was it the last 4 years?"

The red herring sidebar you tried to get going really isn't relevant, which is why I haven't engaged in it. His "Rhetoric" has been dangerous for four years and a passing disagreement of it over 4 years wasn't speaking out, and putting a stop to it. The party is about to get everything it deserves for selling itself to the devil, including the devil and his children trying to destroy it as they get shown the door.

Did you see Matt Gaet is writing a book? I am sure that won't have anything interesting in it.

I stated I'm proud to see the leaders of the GOP step up and call out his fraudulent votes rhetoric and you come back with "Where have they been they last 4 years" and then I'M the one introducing a Red Herring? 

[Au165]

(11-06-2020, 05:13 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I stated I'm proud to see the leaders of the GOP step up and call out his fraudulent votes rhetoric and you come back with "Where have they been they last 4 years" and then I'M the one introducing a Red Herring? 

No, my response was directed to your comment about condemning his rhetoric. Which is based around the election and his impending loss. Your comparison equivalency had nothing to do with anything, instead was trying to divert us into a Russian discussion yet again but really has nothing to do with this election, just more "whataboutisim".

It's cool though, the good news is the Republican party didn't condemn the rhetoric and the country noticed and voted out the President AND it is now possible they still lose the Senate. Maybe we should thank the Republican party for selling their soul?

Anyways back to the election, now that Trump has lost and is going scorched earth on the party do the Democrats get the two seats for a split Senate?

[*bfine32*]

(11-06-2020, 05:14 PM)Au165 Wrote: No, my response was directed to your comment about condemning his rhetoric. Which is based around the election and his impending loss. Your comparison equivalency had nothing to do with anything, instead was trying to divert us into a Russian discussion yet again but really has nothing to do with this election, just more "whataboutisim".

It's cool though, the good news is the Republican party didn't condemn the rhetoric and the country noticed and voted out the President AND it is now possible they still lose the Senate. Maybe we should thank the Republican party for selling their soul?

Anyways back to the election, now that Trump has lost and is going scorched earth on the party to the Democrats get the two seats for a split Senate?

Of course you're going to think you're right and I'm mistaken. But I did state I was proud to see the GOP leadership calling out Trump on his voter fraud rhetoric and asked is it fair to say they are doing so more than the Dems did with Russian collusion. 

You didn't answer that or even address it you went with "What about the last 4 years".

At least we both agree a Red Herring and whataboutisim has been introduced. We just disagree on who introduced it

[Bengalholic]

(11-06-2020, 05:13 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I stated I'm proud to see the leaders of the GOP step up and call out his fraudulent votes rhetoric and you come back with "Where have they been they last 4 years" and then I'M the one introducing a Red Herring? 

It's a fair question though, IMO. Some of the people who are condemning his current rhetoric, McConnel for example, have had no issue with his other instances of moronic or even dangerous rhetoric over that past 4 years. I think some of them know the ship has already sunk and they are grabbing the life preservers, trying to save themselves and hoping people forget they had been defending the very things that help sink the ship in the first place.

[Dill]

(11-06-2020, 03:32 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: To answer the main question: no. The reason for this is that states are represented in Congress. If the executive branch moves to strip mine public lands in North Dakota, then the Representatives and Senators from North Dakota have the option to stop those actions by working for a legislative check on those actions. That's how the system is supposed to work.

As it stands, national parties ONLY pay attention to battleground states. They don't spend money or visit places where they don't see any real path to victory. In fact, a national popular vote provides more incentive to visit more states because every vote gained in any state matters. There are Democratic and Republican voters in every state, but some of them get ignored by their party because they are outnumbered.

All-in-all, I think going to a national popular vote would actually help Congress take back some of its power that it has given up to the executive. I think forcing states to act out their interests on Capitol Hill would mean that we could end up with a better functioning Congress.

Thanks for the explanation: I'm listening. But . . .

My response to your first paragraph is--I understand the reason states are represented in Congress and the rationale for our bi-cameral legislature, etc. That's surely is how the system was supposed to work, but that does not exclude or replace or deny the power now accumulated to smaller states by the EC. 

National parties pay a great deal of attention to battleground states, but it is not entirely true to say they don't spend money or visit places that aren't battleground states. In part because it is not always clear where the battle ground states are/will be. Think of Wisconsin, Michigan, and PA in 2016--the Blue "firewall." Also, having been a Dem living in a reliably red state--and still in discussion with Dems actively organizing there--I can assure you that Dems in such states aren't simply ignored by the national party. And as the case of Georgia proves, such states' "minority" parties are incentivized to move their state into battleground status, drawing more support and national attention as they push to flip.  EC or no, won't more time spent in VA still be more cost effective than time spent in Wyoming or Alaska, whose combined populations barely equal Fairfax County? 

I need more time to think about your final argument, which potentially has the most gravity. Rural Western states are already forced to act out their interests on Capital Hill; I'm having trouble imagining how they are advantaged in any way by elimination of the EC. 

Last night I was looking at counties in Nevada, trying to calculate Trump's chances. So easy to simply ignore Eureka county with less than 1,000 votes. That's Montana and Alaska on a national analogy--almost--but not quite because their "state" status gives them more heft.  But we are a step closer to Eureka if the EC is trashed. 

That's why I am thinking over the long term here, and in principle, not simply to secure Dem power now cuz we lost the popular vote a couple of times. We lost it in a Federal system of states, not a unitary state collecting votes by administrative units like counties.

[GMDino]

(11-06-2020, 05:22 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: It's a fair question though, IMO. Some of the people who are condemning his current rhetoric, McConnel for example, have had no issue with his other instances of moronic or even dangerous rhetoric over that past 4 years. I think some of them know the ship has already sunk and they are grabbing the life preservers and hoping people forget they had been defending the very things that help sink the ship.

McConnell, IMHO, never liked or cared about Trump.  Trump was just another tool for Mitch to use to control things.  So now he'll move along.

The more I think about it Mitch probably used Trump like Trump uses everyone else and it might be the first time it ever happened to DJT.

[*bfine32*]

(11-06-2020, 05:22 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: It's a fair question though, IMO. Some of the people who are condemning his current rhetoric, McConnel for example, have had no issue with his other instances of moronic or even dangerous rhetoric over that past 4 years. I think some of them know the ship has already sunk and they are grabbing the life preservers, trying to save themselves and hoping people forget they had been defending the very things that help sink the ship in the first place.

Fair reply, but I'll go with Mitch always reminded Trump where the true power lies. 

When Trump first hinted at non-peaceful transition McConnell told him that ain't happening before the first vote was cast.

Of course politicians are going to look for the closest life preserver.  

[Au165]

(11-06-2020, 05:23 PM)GMDino Wrote: McConnell, IMHO, never liked or cared about Trump.  Trump was just another tool for Mitch to use to control things.  So now he'll move along.

The more I think about it Mitch probably used Trump like Trump uses everyone else and it might be the first time it ever happened to DJT.

The party never believed in him and never liked him but preferred an "R" in the Whitehouse over the alternative. In reality, the Trumps will grift as always and be a thorn in the side of the party in the coming years trying to whip their base up to go after Republicans they don't like in an attempt to get back at them. 

They (Republican politicians) sold their souls and they will pay for it. When you F with crazy, crazy F's you back.