2020 Election

[Belsnickel]

I don't think it can be overstated how dangerous this situation with the USPS is. Trump has explicitly stated that the intention behind these changes is to hinder the ability for people to cast their votes. That is an attack on our democracy, flat out.

[GMDino]

(08-15-2020, 08:34 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I don't think it can be overstated how dangerous this situation with the USPS is. Trump has explicitly stated that the intention behind these changes is to hinder the ability for people to cast their votes. That is an attack on our democracy, flat out.

Well I can tell you people who support Trump just don't care.  Based on the number of friends I have that will vote for him they are absolutely convinced that all he is doing is preserving the sanctity of the vote from the fraudulent Democrats.  And am 100% honest here.  No hyperbole.

One of my wife's cousins posted a photo where she wrote on the request for a mail in ballot we all got here in PA "I WILL THERE IN PERSON BECAUSE I'M NOT STUPID!" in big yellow letters.  



Trump has conned enough people that he will probably get away with it.

[*Nately120*]

At least sabotaging a free election isn't a slap in the face to veterans.

[hollodero]

(08-15-2020, 08:34 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I don't think it can be overstated how dangerous this situation with the USPS is. Trump has explicitly stated that the intention behind these changes is to hinder the ability for people to cast their votes. That is an attack on our democracy, flat out.

It is horrifying to watch. Certainly also because yeah he did not even veil his intentions. This is to stymie mail-in ballots, plain and simple, he can be 100% transparent about this one. His sycophant party, the inherently moderate Republicans, won't do anything to stop him, won't do anything to secure a free and fair election, won't do anything to preserve democracy. And neither does the Trump electorate, that by all indications overwhelmingly would be in favor of outlawing the democratic party and erecting a one-party system.

Scary beyond belief. And one voice that's in my head is the one of Susan Collins, who represents cowardice like no one else could. The president has learned a big lesson, she said, the president has been impeached, so of course he has. Oh yes he has, you spineless creature. Her has learned that with folks like you and cynical leaders like McConnell on the helm, he can do anything.

On the bright side, if elections get doubted, kneecapped and finally cancelled, no one has to worry about the dangerous, america-hating leftist extremists any longer. USA! UST!

[GMDino]

(08-15-2020, 10:40 AM)Nately120 Wrote: At least sabotaging a free election isn't a slap in the face to veterans.

Obviously.  He's not KNEELING while he's doing it.  

[Belsnickel]

(08-15-2020, 10:55 AM)hollodero Wrote: It is horrifying to watch. Certainly also because yeah he did not even veil his intentions. This is to stymie mail-in ballots, plain and simple, he can be 100% transparent about this one. His sycophant party, the inherently moderate Republicans, won't do anything to stop him, won't do anything to secure a free and fair election, won't do anything to preserve democracy. And neither does the Trump electorate, that by all indications overwhelmingly would be in favor of outlawing the democratic party and erecting a one-party system.

Scary beyond belief. And one voice that's in my head is the one of Susan Collins, who represents cowardice like no one else could. The president has learned a big lesson, she said, the president has been impeached, so of course he has. Oh yes he has, you spineless creature. Her has learned that with folks like you and cynical leaders like McConnell on the helm, he can do anything.

On the bright side, if elections get doubted, kneecapped and finally cancelled, no one has to worry about the dangerous, america-hating leftist extremists any longer. USA! UST!

While I am a progressive person, I am more about a democratic society. Small d democratic, meaning the people have the power. That's what this country, what the "great experiment" was all about. Moves like what Trump and his lackey DeJoy are doing flies in the face of these principles. It is the foundation of everything else in our government. I am not going to mince words with this, supporting these moves by the administration is anti-American.

[NATI BENGALS]

(08-15-2020, 08:34 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I don't think it can be overstated how dangerous this situation with the USPS is. Trump has explicitly stated that the intention behind these changes is to hinder the ability for people to cast their votes. That is an attack on our democracy, flat out.

Yea but if dems had power they would take our guns just like the last time they had power, so we are safe and sound with our dictator rigging another “election” to protect our rights......

Logic!

[hollodero]

(08-15-2020, 11:41 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: While I am a progressive person, I am more about a democratic society. Small d democratic, meaning the people have the power. That's what this country, what the "great experiment" was all about. Moves like what Trump and his lackey DeJoy are doing flies in the face of these principles. It is the foundation of everything else in our government. I am not going to mince words with this, supporting these moves by the administration is anti-American.

Oh but you still do mince words. What this is is a power grab from someone who believes in authoritarian rule and who finds a horrendous amount of people who have no issue with that idea. This is how the american ideals end, this is how democracy ends. And this is something not even Viktor Orban or Erdogan would dare to pull off.

But as I said, the freaky thing is not just Trump, it is that this move is not universally condemned by everyone. Party over country, party over democracy, party over every american principle. Whoever does not speak out against this now is guilty of aiding that process.

[*Nately120*]

I'm used to the federal government saying "Freedom is good...but this kind of freedom is bad, so we're going to look out for you and take it away...you're welcome" but this is just going further than even my most nihilistic thoughts could have gone.

Hats off to republican politicians and voters who are applauding this all so a man who has been a "republican' for less than a decade can rule over us.

[samhain]

(08-15-2020, 11:41 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: While I am a progressive person, I am more about a democratic society. Small d democratic, meaning the people have the power. That's what this country, what the "great experiment" was all about. Moves like what Trump and his lackey DeJoy are doing flies in the face of these principles. It is the foundation of everything else in our government. I am not going to mince words with this, supporting these moves by the administration is anti-American.

I'm not a big fan of prosecuting executives when they leave office, but I think I'd be okay with an investigation into this chicanery should Biden get elected or the Dems take a Senate majority.  Future occupants of the office need to know that they'll be punished if they attempt to suppress the vote (overtly, anyway, not the normal Republican vote suppression).

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-15-2020, 11:48 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Yea but if dems had power they would take our guns just like the last time they had power, 

They're already doing it in CA.  I get that you're being condescending, but you're doing it from a position of ignorance.

[samhain]

(08-16-2020, 01:13 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: They're already doing it in CA.  I get that you're being condescending, but you're doing it from a position of ignorance.

You've had guns physically removed from your possession by government agents?  Do tell.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-16-2020, 02:00 AM)samhain Wrote: You've had guns physically removed from your possession by government agents?  Do tell.

Me, no.  Others, yes.  

[samhain]

(08-16-2020, 02:06 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Me, no.  Others, yes.  

On a large scale?  Other factors involved or simply legislative change?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-16-2020, 02:08 AM)samhain Wrote: On a large scale?

Large is a subjective criteria.  Everything counts in large amounts

Quote:Other factors involved or simply legislative change?

In this regard, purely legislative.

[NATI BENGALS]

(08-16-2020, 01:13 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: They're already doing it in CA.  I get that you're being condescending, but you're doing it from a position of ignorance.

True or false this country has a problem with mass shootings?

True or false the laws you are referencing here were recently enacted in part to help prevent mass shootings?

True or false they can just go take away anyone’s guns for no reason?

[*jason*]

(08-16-2020, 11:51 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: True or false this country has a problem with mass shootings?

True or false the laws you are referencing here were recently enacted in part to help prevent mass shootings?

True or false they can just go take away anyone’s guns for no reason?

To the second one.... This year has definitively proven that a not so small amount of Americans don't care about public safety. Their safety? Sure... Others'? Not so much. I'm speaking in broader terms than the 2nd amendment here, but it applies there too. Their individual liberty trumps everything else. So mass shootings are an unfortunate side effect of their right to own weapons capable of killing many people in a short period of time.

[Dill]

(08-15-2020, 08:34 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I don't think it can be overstated how dangerous this situation with the USPS is. Trump has explicitly stated that the intention behind these changes is to hinder the ability for people to cast their votes. That is an attack on our democracy, flat out.

But he is not restricting the magazine size of semi-automatic weapons, is he?

Unless "the left" can find a way to frame Trump's repeated and unchecked abuse of power as a 2nd Amendment issue, there just won't be enough people who understand or care about the steady creep of authoritarian control.

Millions may happily trade trade democracy for unrestricted gun ownership and an abortion ban.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-16-2020, 11:51 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: True or false this country has a problem with mass shootings?

False, they are exceedingly rare.

Quote:True or false the laws you are referencing here were recently enacted in part to help prevent mass shootings?

True.  Is your assertion that I, and millions of others, should surrender our rights because of the rare acts of criminals?  No thanks.

Quote:True or false they can just go take away anyone’s guns for no reason?

What do you mean, no reason?  That makes no sense.  If they confiscate your firearm due to a change in the law then they're doing it for a reason.  I do know of a man recently who had his guns taken away because he's racist.

https://reason.com/2020/07/30/gun-seized-apparently-for-being-a-racist-group-leader/


Your girl Kamala is on board with this;

https://reason.com/2019/08/19/kamala-harris-promises-to-disarm-violent-hate-by-seizing-guns-from-bigots/

Sounds like thought crime to me.  While I in no way endorse or condone racism of any stripe you can think what you want in this country, it's not a crime.  At least it isn't yet.  Remember, Winston, 2+2=5.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-16-2020, 12:55 PM)Dill Wrote: But he is not restricting the magazine size of automatic weapons, is he?

Semi-automatic weapons.  There's an enormous difference.

Quote:Unless "the left" can find a way to link Trump's abuse of power to the 2nd Amendment, there just won't be enough people who understand or care about the steady creep of authoritarian control.

This statement is silly.  I do find it amusing that you can see the "steady creep" here but routinely mock me for seeing it in the Dem's gun control push.  Very interesting disconnect there.

Quote:Millions may happily trade trade democracy for unrestricted gun ownership and an abortion ban.

You can't impose a tyrannical state on an armed populace.  The Framers knew this, hence the 2nd amendment.