2020 Presidential Election

[BrownAssClown]

Burn,Baby Burn.

[GMDino]

(06-02-2020, 09:56 PM)BrownAssClown Wrote: Ummm....Wasn't Trump breaking the curfew as well with his photo op stunt last night?

Well.





All seriousness aside the gassing of the peaceful protesters, priests and healthcare workers started 30 minutes or so BEFORE The curfew so Trump could make a campaign video.

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/02/867705160/he-did-not-pray-fallout-grows-from-trump-s-photo-op-at-st-john-s-church

Quote:Within hours, the White House had assembled footage of the brief outing into a triumphant video that shows the president pumping his fist as he strides past a row of riot police, culminating in him standing in front of the church. Set to swelling orchestral music, the video shows nearly no sign of the destruction and debris that days of intense protests have wrought near the White House.

Quote:
[/url]The White House

@WhiteHouse









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The president, accompanied by his daughter Ivanka, several Cabinet members and Secret Service agents, walked to St. John's a few minutes after Washington's just-installed 7 p.m. curfew began.


The federal force used against the demonstrators nearly 30 minutes before the curfew began incensed Mayor Muriel Bowser. "Shameful!" Bowser said via Twitter, saying that after "federal police used munitions on peaceful protestors in front of the White House," the city's police force's job of keeping the peace would be made more difficult.

Quote:
Muriel Bowser #StayHomeDC at 7 pm

@MurielBowser




I imposed a curfew at 7pm. A full 25 minutes before the curfew & w/o provocation, federal police used munitions on peaceful protestors in front of the White House, an act that will make the job of @DCPoliceDept officers more difficult. Shameful!

DC residents — Go home. Be safe

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They also attacked members of the press.

Quote:When the federal force rushed at protesters outside the White House, journalists were also pushed out. Officers attacked Australian reporter Amelia Brace and also hit cameraman Tim Myers, prompting Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison to call for an investigation. The scene played out on live TV, during Australia's breakfast-time Sunrise show.


"While live on air, Myers was struck in the chest by a riot shield and Brace was clubbed with a police baton," Australia's 7NEWS reports.

Quote:
7NEWS Sydney

@7NewsSydney




"Our Ambassador should be certainly making representations on behalf of these Australians who effectively been assaulted...for doing their job" - Leader of the @AustralianLabor Party @AlboMP speaking after @Channel7 journalist & cameraman were hit. https://7news.link/3gL7bJ6  #7NEWS




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[url=https://twitter.com/7NewsSydney/status/1267628506139115525]



Brace tells Australia's ABC that she repeatedly identified herself as a journalist as officers quickly closed in on them during the rush to clear a path for Trump.


"Despite that as I ran away, clearly stating that we were media, with my cameraman with a camera on his shoulders, I was hit across the back with the baton," she says. "We were then fired upon by the National Guard with those rubber bullets, who are the exact people I had shown my media pass to ... and then we ended up getting tear-gassed."


The situation, she said, was "absolutely terrifying."

"I also managed to get a rubber bullet to the backside, and Tim got one in the back of the neck, so we'll have a few bruises tomorrow — but we're feeling perfectly safe," Brace says.


Shock and anger over the incident led U.S. Ambassador to Australia Arthur B. Culvahouse Jr. to issue a statement saying, "Freedom of the press is a right Australians and Americans hold dear. We take mistreatment of journalists seriously, as do all who take democracy seriously."

Heck Trump even managed to tick of the police...

Quote:Trump's use of force to allow him to walk across the park has also prompted Arlington County, Va., to pull its police officers out of the nation's capital.


The county had sent a police contingent to help keep peace in Washington. But it says the officers were put in a dangerous position that exposed them and others to risk "for a purpose not worthy of our mutual aid obligations."



"All ACPD officers left the District of Columbia at 8:30 p.m. Monday," Arlington County says.

All that ON TOP of the people from the church they made mad...al because Bunker Don wanted to look "tough".

But there are those who will tell you none of that matters because Trump.

[GMDino]

(06-02-2020, 09:59 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Let's just say...the vast majority (if not all) of the folks cleared were breaking curfew. 

You do understand that a curfew is put in place to safeguard folks don't you?

(06-02-2020, 10:06 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Not sarcasm. He clearly admitted he was unaware a curfew had been broken.  

It wasn't.  But it doesn't matter because Trump.  Right?  LMAO!

I mean you are LITERALLY saying it was okay to gas people because they broke curfew and he fact is they didn't. They were attacked 30 minutes before the curfew. Trump didn't leave for his stroll until 7pm....when the curfew started.

It was cowardly all the way around.

[hollodero]

(06-02-2020, 10:04 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I think folks will advocate/dismiss State's tights

I did promise no follow-up, so let me just state that I am in full support of state's tights. Tights for everyone!

[GMDino]

(06-02-2020, 10:13 PM)hollodero Wrote: I did promise no follow-up, so let me just state that I am in full support of state's tights. Tights for everyone!

Mind you Trump said if the governors did NOT request the military he would override and send them anyway.

If he does THAT we have a (bigger) problem.

Also we will have a BUNCH of Republicans who will say nothing about it or state rights until a Democrat is in office.

[*bfine32*]

(06-02-2020, 10:10 PM)GMDino Wrote: It wasn't.  But it doesn't matter because Trump.  Right?  LMAO!

I mean you are LITERALLY saying it was okay to gas people because they broke curfew and he fact is they didn't.  They were attacked 30 minutes before the curfew.  Trump didn't leave for his stroll until 7pm....when the curfew started.

It was cowardly all the way around.

Why you are allowed to continue to make shit up is something I'll never understand and will most likely lead to my permanent ban in this forum and perhaps the board. But it's already taken a costly toll on this forum. 

WTF, did I ever say Trump was right? Seems I've consistently said; it was not. 

[GMDino]

(06-02-2020, 10:18 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Why you are allowed to continue to make shit up is something I'll never understand and will most likely lead to my permanent ban in this forum and perhaps the board. But it's already taken a costly toll on this forum. 

WTF, did I ever say Trump was right? Seems I've consistently said; it was not. 

You didn't say Trump's photo op was right, you said it was ok that *most* people got gassed and rubber bullet shot at them because they were "breaking curfew".

They were not.

You were wrong.  I didn't make that up.

And that happened because Trump wanted a photo op.  So both things are wrong and one is not right just because Trump wanted a photo op.

[*bfine32*]

(06-02-2020, 10:10 PM)GMDino Wrote: It wasn't.  But it doesn't matter because Trump.  Right?  LMAO!

I mean you are LITERALLY saying it was okay to gas people because they broke curfew and he fact is they didn't.  They were attacked 30 minutes before the curfew.  Trump didn't leave for his stroll until 7pm....when the curfew started.

It was cowardly all the way around.

(06-02-2020, 10:22 PM)GMDino Wrote:

You didn't say Trump's photo op was right, you said it was ok that *most* people got gassed and rubber bullet shot at them because they were "breaking curfew".

They were not.

You were wrong.  I didn't make that up.

And that happened because Trump wanted a photo op.  So both things are wrong and one is not right just because Trump wanted a photo op.

Then WTF did you say it? They were told to disperse because there was a 7 pm curfew. It's their responsibility if they chose not to do so; not POTUS'. Do you think curfews mean start going home when they occur? 

[GMDino]

(06-02-2020, 10:22 PM)GMDino Wrote:

You didn't say Trump's photo op was right, you said it was ok that *most* people got gassed and rubber bullet shot at them because they were "breaking curfew".

They were not.

You were wrong.  I didn't make that up.

And that happened because Trump wanted a photo op.  So both things are wrong and one is not right just because Trump wanted a photo op.

(06-02-2020, 10:30 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Then WTF did you say it? They were told to disperse because there was a 7 pm curfew. It's their responsibility if they chose not to do so; not POTUS'. Do you think curfews mean start going home when they occur? 

Because they were gassed because of Trump's desire to look "tough" by walking to the church, holding a bible upside down and then walking back with more protection than any single person in the US will ever have.

25 minutes before curfew they were gassed and shot at.  There was zero need for that.  It only happened because Donald John Trump wanted his photo op and campaign video.

My apoligies that you don't like jokes, sarcasm OR facts.

Carry on.

[GMDino]

What possible reason could there be for a Republican to care about a bathroom?  

"Esper said he believed they were going to observe the vandalized bathroom in Lafayette Park.”https://t.co/K10xR1AzBw

— Sam Stein (@samstein) June 3, 2020

 

[*bfine32*]

(06-02-2020, 10:34 PM)GMDino Wrote: Because they were gassed because of Trump's desire to look "tough" by walking to the church, holding a bible upside down and then walking back with more protection than any single person in the US will ever have.

25 minutes before curfew they were gassed and shot at.  There was zero need for that.  It only happened because Donald John Trump wanted his photo op and campaign video.

My apoligies that you don't like jokes, sarcasm OR facts.

Carry on.

i had 0 down that you wouldn't own what you said. 

GMDino Wrote:It wasn't.  But it doesn't matter because Trump.  Right?  LMAO!

So when you made up that i asserted that was it a joke, sarcasm, or a fact? 


Perhaps it was just a lie. 


WTS, I will carry on because this will only lead to one of us getting reprimanded and we both know it won't be the one lying. 

[GMDino]

(06-02-2020, 10:44 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So when you made up that i asserted that was it a joke, sarcasm, or a fact? 


Perhaps it was just a lie. 


WTS, I will carry on because this will only lead to one of us getting reprimanded and we both know it won't be the one lying. 

Last time:

You said the people who got gassed, that was ok because the "Broke curfew".  They didn't.  They you said they should have dispersed when told. 25 minutes before the curfew.  And the only reason those two things happened is because of Trump.  You agree that they should have happened and in that case you agree with it because Trump wanted a photo op.  Without him being the catalyst there would be no gassing and shooting of priests and healthcare workers.

I'm not lying.  I'm not joking.  It's a fact.  I'm not making anything personal.  I'm repeating back that you say what happened to the protesters is ok because they broke an ordinance (they didn't).  It happened because of Trump.

Quote:"i had 0 down that you wouldn't own what you said."

Indeed.

[Dill]

(06-02-2020, 08:14 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Dill!?!?! There's hope for YOU.

I think Trump's stunt was worthy of condemnation on it's merit alone, but some cannot stop at that. They have to blame him for Police using dispersing measures to disperse a crowd that is breaking an ordinance. 

Er, that post was intended for ironic contrast, not an expression of my views.  To clarify--

One important difference between liberal democracies from authoritarian/totalitarian states is precisely how they view and manage their own populations when protesting, even when "breaking an ordinance."  The former still work for the people, including the protestors.

Another is how their leaders differently use police and military power--e.g., for the public good or some private agenda.

The poster in question so thoroughly inhabits an authoritarian view of politics that he entirely misses all the ambiguity, complexity and contradiction involved in hijacking the police and military for a photo op at the expense of peaceful protestors.

[*bfine32*]

(06-02-2020, 11:32 PM)Dill Wrote: Er, that post was intended for ironic contrast, not an expression of my views.  To clarify--

One important difference between liberal democracies from authoritarian/totalitarian states is precisely how they view and manage their own populations when protesting, even when "breaking an ordinance."  The former still work for the people, including the protestors.

Another is how their leaders differently use police and military power--e.g., for the public good or some private agenda.

The poster in question so thoroughly inhabits an authoritarian view of politics that he entirely misses all the ambiguity, complexity and contradiction involved in hijacking the police and military for a photo op at the expense of peaceful protestors.

Man, you crushed my hope for you..

It's funny what some folks consider irony actually makes sense. 

You can say that there are differences. But I'll assert that any security force tasked with clearing an area for POTUS would act accordingly. If you are asked to leave and refuse to leave then you have one person to blame. 

[Dill]

(06-02-2020, 10:13 PM)hollodero Wrote: I did promise no follow-up, so let me just state that I am in full support of state's tights. Tights for everyone!

Socialist.  Buy your own tights!!!  

[Dill]

(06-02-2020, 11:39 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Man, you crushed my hope for you..

It's funny what some folks consider irony actually makes sense. 

You can say that there are differences. But I'll assert that any security force tasked with clearing an area for POTUS would act accordingly. If you are asked to leave and refuse to leave then you have one person to blame. 

Well yes, that is the kind of view which led me to select that post.

From an utterly authoritarian perspective, neither leaders nor their prerogatives can be the problem: orders are unambiguous, subjection mandatory.

Put another way--Where there is full identification with a political order, the "one person to blame" can never be the leader.

In short, a military view of civil society, of civilians disobeying orders.

[hollodero]

(06-02-2020, 11:40 PM)Dill Wrote: Socialist.  Buy your own tights!!!  

Equal tights for everyone!

[*bfine32*]

(06-02-2020, 11:47 PM)Dill Wrote: Well yes, that is the kind of view which led me to select that post.

From an utterly authoritarian perspective, neither leaders nor their prerogatives can be the problem: orders are unambiguous, subjection mandatory.

Put another way--Where there is full identification with a political order, the "one person to blame" can never be the leader.

In short, a military view of civil society, of civilians disobeying orders.

What is the non-military view of civilians disobeying orders? 

[BmorePat87]

(06-02-2020, 09:44 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I honestly didn't know a curfew had been broken. All I knew was that Trump (well, Barr, actually) had the church grounds cleared through riot control measures OF ITS OWN CLERGY AS THEY PROVIDED AID TO PEOPLE in order to have this photo op.

Now that I read the curfew order, since the DC curfew exempts essential workers, which includes healthcare workers (who were among those providing aid), were they actually violating curfew? Did the curfew actually give LE the authority to run clergy members from their own church grounds, essentially confiscating the property?

The curfew wasn’t in effect. It was before 7pm.

Also, it bars people from being in public spaces. If they were on private property, then they were technically fine.

Also, the media is exempt, but that didn’t stop the police yesterday from roughing up that media crew.

[CarolinaBengalFanGuy]

(06-03-2020, 12:15 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: The curfew wasn’t in effect. It was before 7pm.

Also, it bars people from being in public spaces. If they were on private property, then they were technically fine.

Also, the media is exempt, but that didn’t stop the police yesterday from roughing up that media crew.

Well I haven't really paid attention to this because I've started to work nights again, but isn't the expectation that you are wherever you are supposed to be by 7 pm? So if you live 30 minutes away you shouldn't be leaving to go home at 6:50. But I guess thats whatever because we can't know how long/far everyone is going to need to go.

But if they were told to clear an area because the President was coming through and then didn't listen, then what do you expect? I'm just assuming what Bfine said was true. If you're told to leave an area so the President can pass through then you leave the area or submit to the consequences of not leaving the area.