2nd Amendment Hysteria

[xxlt]

I realize people will knee jerk post stuff on social media without thinking. Today's example of such was a meme asking, "Why is the Second Amendment the only Constitutional right you need a permit to use?"

My first thought was, since when? I would be all in favor of people having permits before obtaining a gun "for the purpose of forming a well-regulated militia," but as near as I can tell they don't have to have a permit and they don't have to belong to a well-regulated militia.

Then I thought, hmmm, what rights does the First Amendment give? It seems "freedom of assembly" is covered in that one and it seems you need a permit to assemble. Don't believe me? Try to hold a rally on Fountain Square or anywhere else in the Queen City (or any city or backwater burg) without one and see what happens.

So at this point, assuming you need a permit to use the amendment two right, that makes it 2/2 or 100% of Constitutional rights you need a permit to use. So this got me to wondering if any of our Constitutional scholars here would like to weigh in on whether there are any Constitutional rights you can use without a permit and give a breakdown.

What say ye?

How many rights does the Constitution give? How many amendments are there? How many of the rights given in the Constitution and its amendments can be exercised without a permit? Last but not least, do you have to have a permit to have a gun?

[Rotobeast]

(10-08-2015, 09:06 PM)xxlt Wrote: I realize people will knee jerk post stuff on social media without thinking. Today's example of such was a meme asking, "Why is the Second Amendment the only Constitutional right you need a permit to use?"  

My first thought was, since when? I would be all in favor of people having permits before obtaining a gun "for the purpose of forming a well-regulated militia," but as near as I can tell they don't have to have a permit and they don't have to belong to a well-regulated militia.

Then I thought, hmmm, what rights does the First Amendment give? It seems "freedom of assembly" is covered in that one and it seems you need a permit to assemble. Don't believe me? Try to hold a rally on Fountain Square or anywhere else in the Queen City (or any city or backwater burg) without one and see what happens.

So at this point, assuming you need a permit to use the amendment two right, that makes it 2/2 or 100% of Constitutional rights you need a permit to use. So this got me to wondering if any of our Constitutional scholars here would like to weigh in on whether there are any Constitutional rights you can use without a permit and give a breakdown.

What say ye?

How many rights does the Constitution give? How many amendments are there? How many of the rights given in the Constitution and its amendments can be exercised without a permit? Last but not least, do you have to have a permit to have a gun?

I've seen the 1st and 2nd performed without a permit, at the same time, plenty of times.
There are tons of Open Carry people that assemble without permits.
I'm guessing that may be a case where the police don't really want to push things though.
FWIW.... I hate the open carry guys.

[jfkbengals]

(10-08-2015, 09:06 PM)xxlt Wrote: do you have to have a permit to have a gun?

No, you do not.  It does have to be legally registered, but it does not require a permit to own.

Concealed carry is different, of course.

[Belsnickel]

(10-08-2015, 09:57 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: No, you do not.  It does have to be legally registered, but it does not require a permit to own.

Concealed carry is different, of course.

That depends on the state. No such registration exists in Virginia.

[xxlt]

(10-08-2015, 10:22 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: That depends on the state. No such registration exists in Virginia.

I knew laws varied from state to state, but thought as a rule buying a gun was about as tough as buying a kite or a lamp. So, that leaves me still wondering why people would ***** hysterically about non-existent big government intrusion into their lives and trampling all over the only right they give two shits about when in reality guns flow like water in the streams from sea to shining sea.

And, now I also wonder about the tension between open carry and concealed carry. I have sympathy with Rotobeast's contempt for open carry guys, but that is because they seem to be the sorts of lunatics who belong to "militias" but ones that are far from well regulated. Seems like they are usually a bunch of overweight dudes with some version of the 1,000 yard stare wearing army surplus gear and hanging out in public all geared out and getting a chubby because they make people nervous.

Yeah, I get not being a fan of those guys...but there is a part of me that knows a lot of guys who aren't total weirdos who have concealed carry permits and who I sort of wish would just carry open. My thought was always that if you don't need a permit to open carry and people just get used to seeing their normally programmed neighbor with his gun on his hip instead of squirreled away in a bag or shoved half up his arse they might realize not all "gun nuts" are actually "nuts" and some of the people who fetishize guns might not have as much reason to if they just saw them more commonly.

The older I get the more I realize that was probably a naive hope, but it still somehow seems weird to me that you can walk down any street in America with a gun on your person in plain view and there is no law against it and damn near nobody but the lunatic fringe will do it. But you have to get a permit to conceal the gun on your person and the same people who love their guns and hate having their freedoms viz a vie guns restricted will jump through the hoops to get the concealed carry permit. Why don't they just say, "Screw you, big government," and carry open as is their right? There has always seemed something very strange in that whole dynamic to me. Thoughts?

[*michaelsean*]

In a time when very few people open carry, all it does is make you a target. You will be the first one .shot. They seem to be "I know my rights and I dare you to say something" types.

[Rotobeast]

(10-10-2015, 10:13 AM)xxlt Wrote: I knew laws varied from state to state, but thought as a rule buying a gun was about as tough as buying a kite or a lamp. So, that leaves me still wondering why people would ***** hysterically about non-existent big government intrusion into their lives and trampling all over the only right they give two shits about when in reality guns flow like water in the streams from sea to shining sea.

And, now I also wonder about the tension between open carry and concealed carry. I have sympathy with Rotobeast's contempt for open carry guys, but that is because they seem to be the sorts of lunatics who belong to "militias" but ones that are far from well regulated. Seems like they are usually a bunch of overweight dudes with some version of the 1,000 yard stare wearing army surplus gear and hanging out in public all geared out and getting a chubby because they make people nervous.

Yeah, I get not being a fan of those guys...but there is a part of me that knows a lot of guys who aren't total weirdos who have concealed carry permits and who I sort of wish would just carry open. My thought was always that if you don't need a permit to open carry and people just get used to seeing their normally programmed neighbor with his gun on his hip instead of squirreled away in a bag or shoved half up his arse they might realize not all "gun nuts" are actually "nuts" and some of the people who fetishize guns might not have as much reason to if they just saw them more commonly.

The older I get the more I realize that was probably a naive hope, but it still somehow seems weird to me that you can walk down any street in America with a gun on your person in plain view and there is no law against it and damn near nobody but the lunatic fringe will do it. But you have to get a permit to conceal the gun on your person and the same people who love their guns and hate having their freedoms viz a vie guns restricted will jump through the hoops to get the concealed carry permit. Why don't they just say, "Screw you, big government," and carry open as is their right? There has always seemed something very strange in that whole dynamic to me. Thoughts?

I think open carry causes too much fear in the public.
Increased stress creates unnecessary situations.
Besides, as you said, most of the cats are just attention whores.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(10-10-2015, 11:58 AM)michaelsean Wrote: In a time when very few people open carry, all it does is make you a target.  You will be the first one .shot.  They seem to be "I know my rights and I dare you to say something" types.

More commonly it makes you a prime candidate to be robbed of your firearm.

(10-10-2015, 02:01 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: I think open carry causes too much fear in the public.
Increased stress creates unnecessary situations.
Besides, as you said, most of the cats are just attention whores.

I've never understood the supposed point of open carry in the modern world.  As you say, it frightens and unnerves others and does not protect you at all.  A criminal who knows you have a gun will act accordingly.  The gun in your holster or slung across your back does you no good when someone has their gun pointed at your face.

[Rotobeast]

(10-10-2015, 03:27 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: More commonly it makes you a prime candidate to be robbed of your firearm.


I've never understood the supposed point of open carry in the modern world.  As you say, it frightens and unnerves others and does not protect you at all.  A criminal who knows you have a gun will act accordingly.  The gun in your holster or slung across your back does you no good when someone has their gun pointed at your face.

Agreed on both posts.
The only open carry I see as useful is as personal  protection while hunting or hiking in bear country.

[Blutarsky]

The more mass killings there are, the more rumblings by the left about gun control/confiscation you'll have.
The more rumblings of gun control by leftists, the more attention seeking open carry tough guys you'll have.

[fredtoast]

If I wanted to shoot a bunch of people I'd shoot thr guy with the gun first.

So open carry may be a good way to get yourself killed.

[jfkbengals]

(10-08-2015, 10:22 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: That depends on the state. No such registration exists in Virginia.

Well I'll be damned.

I always thought they were, but it turns out it is only machine guns.

[GodHatesBengals]

(10-10-2015, 04:20 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: The only open carry I see as useful is as personal  protection while hunting or hiking in bear country.

You mean Pistol Pete at the Tea Bagger rally isn't actually doing himself or others any good?


Color me surprised.

[*Nately120*]

(10-10-2015, 03:27 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: More commonly it makes you a prime candidate to be robbed of your firearm.

I'd be more worried about drawing my own gun to save people from a bad guy with a gun and then having some late to the party gun owners see me with a gun and assume I'm the bad guy.  I sort of look like the people that terrify this county's gun-nuts, you see.

[Rotobeast]

(10-10-2015, 10:00 PM)GodHatesBengals Wrote: You mean Pistol Pete at the Tea Bagger rally isn't actually doing himself or others any good?


Color me surprised.

The Pistol Pete types are douchebags and give proper gun owners a bad name.

*oh crap... I opened something up with using proper.
:blush:

[*bfine32*]

(10-10-2015, 09:06 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If I wanted to shoot a bunch of people I'd shoot thr guy with the gun first.

What if the guy with gun had the same idea?

[*Nately120*]

(10-10-2015, 10:33 PM)bfine32 Wrote: What if the guy with gun had the same idea?

Then we'd have ourselves a good ol' fashioned rootin' tootin' shoot-out?

[*bfine32*]

(10-10-2015, 10:35 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Then we'd have ourselves a good ol' fashioned rootin' tootin' shoot-out?

Please refrain from using the term shoot-out; as it is offensive.

Did anybody catch the River Red Showdown today between Texas and Oklahoma?

[xxlt]

(10-10-2015, 11:58 AM)michaelsean Wrote: In a time when very few people open carry, all it does is make you a target.  You will be the first one .shot.  They seem to be "I know my rights and I dare you to say something" types.

But this flies in the face of the "guns make us safer" mantra.

[fredtoast]

(10-10-2015, 10:33 PM)bfine32 Wrote: What if the guy with gun had the same idea?

He would be dead before he got a shot off.