2nd Amendment Hysteria

[xxlt]

(10-11-2015, 10:37 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: At the range that this type of encounter occurs at aiming is not a time consuming event.  Pulling the trigger is accomplished in less than a second.  If done at the proper moment unholstering, "aiming" and firing takes place far faster than the reaction time or your typical human.  I'm not telling myself anything btw, I've witnessed it first hand.

Yes indeed, at that range aiming is not a time consuming event and pulling the trigger takes less than a second. Yet, you still contend someone with a weapon pointed at you can not fire ("pulling the trigger takes less than a second") before you can draw and fire. If you've witnessed this first hand then you have witnesses it first hand. Congratulations. I'll continue to put my money on the person who already has a gun pointed at someone and not the person who has to "act" before the person who is pointing a gun at him "reacts." In fact, I would wager in "contest"  after contest that the person who has a gun pointed at someone gets off multiple shots ("pulling the trigger takes less than a second") before the other person gets his weapon out. I know it goes against the "logic" of "your gun protects you" but that is my position. I applaud you for believing otherwise. And I readily admit (with my closed mind, as another poster calls it) you may be correct. I just don't believe you are. We don't all have to believe the same thing.

[*PhilHos*]

(10-12-2015, 08:13 PM)xxlt Wrote: Yes indeed, at that range aiming is not a time consuming event and pulling the trigger takes less than a second. Yet, you still contend someone with a weapon pointed at you can not fire ("pulling the trigger takes less than a second") before you can draw and fire. If you've witnessed this first hand then you have witnesses it first hand. Congratulations. I'll continue to put my money on the person who already has a gun pointed at someone and not the person who has to "act" before the person who is pointing a gun at him "reacts." In fact, I would wager in "contest"  after contest that the person who has a gun pointed at someone gets off multiple shots ("pulling the trigger takes less than a second") before the other person gets his weapon out. I know it goes against the "logic" of "your gun protects you" but that is my position. I applaud you for believing otherwise. And I readily admit (with my closed mind, as another poster calls it) you may be correct. I just don't believe you are. We don't all have to believe the same thing.

I've actually seen quite a few videos on Youtube where armed gunmen (redundant term is redundant) attempted to carjack or rob various people who also happened to be armed (unbeknownst to the attackers), in every one of those videos, the victim pulled out the gun and got shots off and the attacker was usually running away and almost never got a shot off.

My belief is that people who are willing to kill with a gun will just kill whomever. Those looking to use a gun to "scare" people into getting what they want are less likely to shoot even when being shot at.  Yes, this is anecdotal, but this is what I've seen.

[Rotobeast]

(10-12-2015, 08:34 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I've actually seen quite a few videos on Youtube where armed gunmen (redundant term is redundant) attempted to carjack or rob various people who also happened to be armed (unbeknownst to the attackers), in every one of those videos, the victim pulled out the gun and got shots off and the attacker was usually running away and almost never got a shot off.

My belief is that people who are willing to kill with a gun will just kill whomever. Those looking to use a gun to "scare" people into getting what they want are less likely to shoot even when being shot at.  Yes, this is anecdotal, but this is what I've seen.

This is what I have experienced, bouncing at bars.
Mr. Mouthy Scary guy wielding a gun turns and runs when the target whips his out.
A career criminal, however, will know the motion and possibly shoot you in the face.
There are not that many career criminals taking their chances with individuals though.
They are smart enough to take the chance on the higher reward targets, like convenience stores, ect....
 

[*michaelsean*]

The point about SSF is making, or one of the points is that the bad guy may not even realize what is happening. We see what we expect to see.

[xxlt]

(10-12-2015, 08:34 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I've actually seen quite a few videos on Youtube where armed gunmen (redundant term is redundant) attempted to carjack or rob various people who also happened to be armed (unbeknownst to the attackers), in every one of those videos, the victim pulled out the gun and got shots off and the attacker was usually running away and almost never got a shot off.

My belief is that people who are willing to kill with a gun will just kill whomever. Those looking to use a gun to "scare" people into getting what they want are less likely to shoot even when being shot at.  Yes, this is anecdotal, but this is what I've seen.

Like I said, it may be correct that the person with gun in hand is at a considerable disadvantage. I just tend to think it is not the case and don't wish to conduct a trial to find out.

With regard to the videos and to another posters numerous field experiences wherein someone draws and fires on the unsuspecting person with a gun in his hand, I mentioned in another thread it surprises me gun advocates can't site many more videos and anecdotes with this sort of outcome. It seems to me there are many more videos and anecdotes about accidental shootings and accidental discharges and guns harming someone or something other than a would be assailant. But I guess that is because the "liberal media" hates guns. But I'm not talking about the "liberal media." I am talking about gun enthusiasts and their champions. It seems they are long on beliefs and short on examples, the anecdotes provided in this thread notwithstanding.

[xxlt]

(10-12-2015, 10:16 PM)michaelsean Wrote: The point about SSF is making, or one of the points is that the bad guy may not even realize what is happening.  We see what we expect to see.

True. And, it is possible the criminal with a weapon pointed at someone assumes he will not have to fire it as the weapon gives him total control, and he is incapable of firing it if called upon. Similarly, it is possible the person without a weapon drawn may have believed deep down he/she could never actually shoot someone, but in that moment the adrenaline may kick in for the latter and he/she may prevail against the former much to his/her astonishment (or in confirmation of what he or she always knew - he/ she could drop a bad guy like a bag of dirt). I am not saying it can't go down that way or that it can't go down that way most of the time. I am saying it won't go down that way every time and I am even skeptical about it going down that way most of the time. But, closed mind and all, I admit I may be wrong about this. See, that's the thing. I don't know I am right, but it seems the pro-gun guys in the broader debate and in this specific one often know they are. So, whose minds are really closed?

In addition to what is expected to happen, which is a valid point, there are the issues of what does happen, one's prior training, and one's psychological makeup. Given all these variables it is very difficult to predict outcomes.

[*bfine32*]

Looking through Craigslist today for the next Ms bfine and ran into this post:

Quote:I have a 125 gallon fish tank including tank stand and hood......No fish..... 2 emperor 400 filters ..Have all kinds of other accessories for the right price? May trade for guns? Call or text

Now that's just wrong.

[Belsnickel]

(08-18-2016, 03:42 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Looking through Craigslist today for the next Ms bfine and ran into this post:


Now that's just wrong.

Seems legit to me.

[Rotobeast]

(08-18-2016, 03:42 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Looking through Craigslist today for the next Ms bfine and ran into this post:


Now that's just wrong.

How does a fish tank end up in the personal ads ?

And what subdivision of Zoophilia is the attraction to fish ?


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[JustWinBaby]

(10-10-2015, 10:40 PM)xxlt Wrote: How does the gun strapped to your ankle or shoved down your pants or in your fanny pack do you any more good when a gun is pointed at your face? That is the part I never understood.

Yeah, I've often wondered if someone with a CCW or open carrying gets confronted....if they really believe the guy doesn't have a gun or just assume they can outdraw him if he does?

I have no interest in carrying a gun, but if a mugger said to give him my wallet I'm pretty sure I would just hand over my wallet than try to draw on him.

[McC]

(10-11-2015, 11:32 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: A place designed to hold a handgun is a holster. They make handbags with such a compartment built in. The women I know that carry utilize this option because it is safer than having a loose firearm in their handbags. Having a firearm loose with other objects increases the risk of an unintentional discharge of the firearm or entanglement when retrieving the firearm.

But yes, we may come from different cultures with regards to this. This is why I made statements like "the women I know" as opposed to making sweeping statements about things that may or may not hold true throughout the broader population.

You know a lot of pistol packin' mamas, do you?

[Rotobeast]

(08-18-2016, 04:17 PM)McC Wrote: You know a lot of pistol packin' mamas, do you?

My 65 yr old Mother does.


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[Belsnickel]

(08-18-2016, 04:17 PM)McC Wrote: You know a lot of pistol packin' mamas, do you?

Yes, I do.

[McC]

(08-18-2016, 05:15 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Yes, I do.

Wow.  I don't think I've ever know one.

[Belsnickel]

(08-18-2016, 05:29 PM)McC Wrote: Wow.  I don't think I've ever know one.

Yeah, they aren't common around here, but they aren't rare either.

[Rotobeast]

(08-18-2016, 05:29 PM)McC Wrote: Wow.  I don't think I've ever know one.

You probably do, but most responsible CCW holders do not advertise it.


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[tigerseye]

My Grandma was in her 80s and was a great shot. She lived alone for many years in peace and security.

Guns even the playing field, so to speak. Actually she probably had the advantage over an intruder because she was such a good shot.

People who own guns and use them to protect self and property increase the safety of people who don't like or own guns because the low lifes don't know who has them and who doesn't.

Just a thought.

Personally I think every law abiding citizen in the USA should own firearms. If they choose to.

Just My Opinion. 

[Belsnickel]

(08-18-2016, 07:50 PM)tigerseye Wrote: My Grandma was in her 80s and was a great shot. She lived alone for many years in peace and security.

Guns even the playing field, so to speak. Actually she probably had the advantage over an intruder because she was such a good shot.

People who own guns and use them to protect self and property increase the safety of people who don't like or own guns because the low lifes don't know who has them and who doesn't.

Just a thought.

Personally I think every law abiding citizen in the USA should own firearms. If they choose to.

Just My Opinion. 

I always find the term law abiding citizen to be a rather interesting turn of phrase. I can't really think of anyone I know that has not broken the law.

[*Nately120*]

(08-18-2016, 09:16 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I always find the term law abiding citizen to be a rather interesting turn of phrase. I can't really think of anyone I know that has not broken the law.

True, I think it usually means people that aren't black males should all have guns.  I imagine if a DUI voids your right to bear arms a lot of red counties are going to be pretty disappointed!

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-19-2016, 01:19 AM)Nately120 Wrote: True, I think it usually means people that aren't black males should all have guns. 

Lame.  I know numerous black men who carry.  Attempts to conflate the ability to legally carry a firearm to ethnicity dovetail perfectly into the complete shit show which is current day racial "debate".