3 months for Rape

[StLucieBengal]

(06-07-2016, 04:21 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: So do you go out knowing exactly how much you're going to drink every time you step out the door? Have you always had such restraint?
.

Yes I do..  When I reach my limit I switch to soda.   

[BigPapaKain]

(06-07-2016, 04:30 PM)Beaker Wrote: What is part two? Ask again, I'm sorry if I missed it.

And no I didn't compare rape to drinking. I said people of both sexes who get fall down drunk put themselves into compromised positions that others can take advantage of. Men and women face different consequences, bot both can be severe.

My post hasn't changed and multi-quoting isn't available on the mobile version. But what the hell - I'll indulge you.

Have you always shown the restraint when it comes to drinking as you do now? Be honest.

[Benton]

(06-07-2016, 04:16 PM)Beaker Wrote: I don't blame you for that. But I do put some responsibility on your shoulders if you get stupid, fall down drunk and get beaten and robbed. Remember, I'm not coming at this saying the girl should be blamed. I'm simply asking if she bears any responsibility.  Like I said, I am viewing this from a parent's perspective with a daughter who is about to go off to college. I have had talks with her about not putting herself into dangerous situations. If I had a son, I would have the same talk with him. Both sexes face different dangers. women can be raped, men robbed and beaten....both can be murdered. I think common sense needs to come into play. I think awareness needs to come into play. I think reality needs to come into play. The stanford kid was wrong for doing what he did. He was one of those people who took advantage of a person in a weakened state.

I think where the disconnect is blame is responsibility. You're essentially saying "she shouldn't be blamed... but should she be blamed?"

And most people in this thread are saying, no. She shouldn't. That doesn't mean she made good decisions, but that's irrelevant to the fact that, no, she shouldn't be blamed for being sexually assaulted.

[Beaker]

(06-07-2016, 04:29 PM)Au165 Wrote: If someone doesn't give consent when they are drunk and doesn't give consent when sober......what's the difference?

There is no difference. Both are rape.

[BigPapaKain]

(06-07-2016, 04:31 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Yes I do..  When I reach my limit I switch to soda.   

And still the second part isn't answered by our second contestant. Please see above and answer the post fully or not at all.

[Au165]

(06-07-2016, 04:32 PM)Beaker Wrote: There is no difference. Both are rape.

So then why does a women who was drinking share any responsibility versus one who wasn't if it is in fact rape?

[Beaker]

(06-07-2016, 04:32 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: My post hasn't changed and multi-quoting isn't available on the mobile version. But what the hell - I'll indulge you.

Have you always shown the restraint when it comes to drinking as you do now? Be honest.

Truthfully, yes. Even when I was in my twenties, I didn't like the feeling of being so drunk I wasn't in control.

[Beaker]

(06-07-2016, 04:34 PM)Au165 Wrote: So then why does a women who was drinking share any responsibility versus one who wasn't if it is in fact rape?

Should she have known she could be putting herself in danger to be raped, robbed or even murdered if she got drunk enough to pass out in a strange place? My question was where does common sense come into play...for both sexes. Men who pass out can be beaten robbed or murdered...not as likely to be raped. But bad things none the less.

[BigPapaKain]

(06-07-2016, 04:34 PM)Beaker Wrote: Truthfully, yes. Even when I was in my twenties, I didn't like the feeling of being so drunk I wasn't in control.

Which would mean that at some point you got that drunk, no?

[Beaker]

(06-07-2016, 04:32 PM)Benton Wrote: I think where the disconnect is blame is responsibility. You're essentially saying "she shouldn't be blamed... but should she be blamed?"

I am saying she should not have to expect to be raped, but she should realize that rape, assault, robbery, or even murder could occur if she puts herself in that circumstance.

[Beaker]

(06-07-2016, 04:38 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Which would mean that at some point you got that drunk, no?

Nope. The closest I came, I had friends with me who took me home. But I never ended up passing out.

[Benton]

(06-07-2016, 04:20 PM)Beaker Wrote: I am not debating that the guy was wrong. But do you think the rape would have occurred if she had been totally sober and had all her wits about her? Or at least, would it have been as likely? I don't know many people that are not aware that bad things can happen to you if you don't control your urges to drink and get blackout drunk.

To the bold, I don't like 'what ifs' in criminal cases. I don't know what was said between the two prior to the rape, during or after. The problem with this is we don't know if a woman (any, not just specifically this case, but I think it applies here too) didn't consent and blocked the event out (as many assault victims do, sexual or otherwise). We don't know if a person consented only out of fear of violence. We don't know if anyone helped along the drinking (alcohol is alcohol, but if you drop a shot or two of liquor into a beer before handing it off, the other person gets drunk way faster... no date rape drugs needed).

So all you've got is two people and enough evidence that a jury said one consented and one didn't.

[BigPapaKain]

(06-07-2016, 04:38 PM)Beaker Wrote: I am saying she should not have to expect to be raped, but she should realize that rape, assault, robbery, or even murder could occur if she puts herself in that circumstance.

I'm not trying to pick a fight - but really dude?

Rape, assault, robbery, or murder could occur anytime you step out the door. Hell, if you're really unlucky you don't even have to step out the door.

The bottom line is this guy raped her. It's ****** up. To even passively try to shift blame onto the victim in any way - regardless of her mental state - is disguisting.

[StLucieBengal]

(06-07-2016, 04:33 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: And still the second part isn't answered by our second contestant. Please see above and answer the post fully or not at all.

Second part?  Your social commentary?   Why would I respond to that.... It's absurd 

[Benton]

(06-07-2016, 04:38 PM)Beaker Wrote: I am saying she should not have to expect to be raped, but she should realize that rape, assault, robbery, or even murder could occur if she puts herself in that circumstance.

Everyone lives under that assumption. Or should at least.

But that doesn't change the legality of it. You're not responsible for someone harming you; you are responsible for not harming someone else.

[BigPapaKain]

(06-07-2016, 04:39 PM)Beaker Wrote: Nope. The closest I came, I had friends with me who took me home. But I never ended up passing out.

So you're judging people based on experiences you've never had.

Okie dokie.

[BigPapaKain]

(06-07-2016, 04:42 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Second part?  Your social commentary?   Why would I respond to that.... It's absurd 

See above. I already indulged Beaker. I won't hold your hand.

[StLucieBengal]

(06-07-2016, 04:41 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: I'm not trying to pick a fight - but really dude?

Rape, assault, robbery, or murder could occur anytime you step out the door. Hell, if you're really unlucky you don't even have to step out the door.

The bottom line is this guy raped her. It's ***** up. To even passively try to shift blame onto the victim in any way - regardless of her mental state - is disguisting.

What's the liklihood she could have made her feelings knows to him about sex that night has she not been irresponsibly black out drunk.  


Yes it sucks she got raped and he shouldn't be doing that but she needs to shoulder some blame as well.   Had she been conscience she could have given him an answer.  

[Au165]

(06-07-2016, 04:36 PM)Beaker Wrote: Should she have known she could be putting herself in danger to be raped, robbed or even murdered if she got drunk enough to pass out in a strange place? My question was where does common sense come into play...for both sexes. Men who pass out can be beaten robbed or murdered...not as likely to be raped. But bad things none the less.

Okay, but you are not following your own logic here. If rape is rape, as you agreed with, then why is it you insist that somehow because they were drinking the lack of consent is some how the victims responsibility?

If they are at .05 and perfectly fine (can drive in every state), yet get raped as they are escorted back to their dorm it is no responsibility?

If they are .12 and stumbling around as they get escorted back to their dorm by a guy and get raped it is now partially their responsibility?

In both cases they were at a party and drinking. In both cases a guy offered to escort them back to their dorm. In both cases they didn't give consent and were raped. However in one their BAC was higher, so she should feel responsible?

[Beaker]

(06-07-2016, 04:41 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: To even passively try to shift blame onto the victim in any way - regardless of her mental state - is disguisting.

To not expect people to have common sense is just as bad. You think I'm coming at this to say the guy is innocent, or that the girl should take the balme. I'm not. I'm saying everyone should have enough common sense to realize bad things can happen to you when you lose control of your faculties. That's men and women. And it covers a bigger scope than just rape. I tried to make it clear that I a trying to teach my college age daughter to have that common sense and not put herself in those situations. I would say the same thing if I have a boy too.