3 months for Rape

[StLucieBengal]

(06-07-2016, 04:45 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: See above. I already indulged Beaker. I won't hold your hand.

Meh ... I'm not that interested.   It's irrelevant anyway. 

[BigPapaKain]

(06-07-2016, 04:46 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: What's the liklihood she could have made her feelings knows to him about sex that night has she not been irresponsibly black out drunk.  


Yes it sucks she got raped and he shouldn't be doing that but she needs to shoulder some blame as well.   Had she been conscience she could have given him an answer.  

...

Wow.

Just. Wow.

Someone else take this one. I'm gonna get banned again if I do.

[Beaker]

(06-07-2016, 04:46 PM)Au165 Wrote: Okay, but you are not following your own logic here. If rape is rape, as you agreed with, then why is it you insist that somehow because they were drinking the lack of consent is some how the victims responsibility?

If they are at .05 and perfectly fine (can drive in every state), yet get raped as they are escorted back to their dorm it is no responsibility?

If they are .12 and stumbling around as they get escorted back to their dorm by a guy and get raped it is now partially their responsibility?

In both cases they were at a party and drinking. In both cases a guy offered to escort them back to their dorm. In both cases they didn't give consent and were raped. However in one their BAC was higher, so she should feel responsible?

Rape is wrong in all cases. Just don't wake up surprised if you pass out and bad things happen to you. Take some responsibility to not put yourself in those situations.

[BigPapaKain]

(06-07-2016, 04:48 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Meh ... I'm not that interested.   It's irrelevant anyway. 

Nope. Not gonna take it. Already on thin ice.

[Au165]

(06-07-2016, 04:46 PM)Beaker Wrote: To not expect people to have common sense is just as bad. You think I'm coming at this to say the guy is innocent, or that the girl should take the balme. I'm not. I'm saying everyone should have enough common sense to realize bad things can happen to you when you lose control of your faculties. That's men and women. And it covers a bigger scope than just rape. I tried to make it clear that I a trying to teach my college age daughter to have that common sense and not put herself in those situations. I would say the same thing if I have a boy too.

You tell your daughter not to drive after midnight as well or else she is partially to blame when a drunk driver kills her right? She is more likely to get killed by a drunk driver after midnight and common sense would say you should avoid the roads then. You are going to stand up at the funeral and talk about how it was partially her fault right?

I can literally do this with every criminal act if you want. The problem is the only time people seem to use this argument is when it comes to rape of females who had been drinking.

[Beaker]

(06-07-2016, 04:49 PM)Au165 Wrote: The problem is the only time people seem to use this argument is when it comes to rape of females who had been drinking.

In some examples above I equated it to assault and robbery, and even murder happening to both males and females who put themselves into those situations.

[Au165]

(06-07-2016, 04:52 PM)Beaker Wrote: In some examples above I equated it to assault and robbery, and even murder happening to both males and females who put themselves into those situations.

Gotcha, now how often do you hear people blaming those people. You used examples, but I am talking in real life. Go look at the comment sections on news articles about rape, it is pretty sad. It is a deeper societal issue.

I do get what you are saying, but it is dangerous to take that view because you can then start sliding into they are responsible for dressing sexy or dancing provocative.

[Beaker]

(06-07-2016, 04:55 PM)Au165 Wrote: Gotcha, now how often do you here people blaming those people. You sued examples, but I am talking in real life? Go look at the comment sections on news articles about rape, it is pretty sad. It is a deeper societal issue.

I do get what you are saying, but it is dangerous to take that view because you can then start sliding into they are responsible for dressing sexy or dancing provocative.

I would blame myself if I got so drunk I passed out, then was assaulted and robbed. I would be sitting in the hospital all bruised up thinking that I should've known better. But I definitely do not think people should EXPECT those things to happen to them if they do. They should simply be well aware that it CAN happen to you if you do.

[*bfine32*]

(06-07-2016, 04:59 PM)Beaker Wrote: I would blame myself if I got so drunk I passed out, then was assaulted and robbed. I would be sitting in the hospital all bruised up thinking that I should've known better. But I definitely do not think people should EXPECT those things to happen to them if they do. They should simply be well aware that it CAN happen to you if you do.

To me the mentality of the female shares no blame if the are in equal states on consciousness and consent is given; belittles the woman. You are saying the male must be mature enough for both of you.

[BigPapaKain]

(06-07-2016, 05:33 PM)bfine32 Wrote: To me the mentality of the female shares no blame if the are in equal states on consciousness and consent is given; belittles the woman. You are saying the male must be mature enough for both of you.

So once a male has to do the right thing, it's suddenly not cool for him to be deciding what is and isn't best for a woman?

I mean they've done such a bang up job throughout history.

[Aquapod770]

(06-07-2016, 05:33 PM)bfine32 Wrote: To me the mentality of the female shares no blame if the are in equal states on consciousness and consent is given; belittles the woman. You are saying the male must be mature enough for both of you.

You know, equality and all. 

[GMDino]

[GMDino]

[Rotobeast]

Ok.....so......
A person needs to take responsibility for their words (as mentioned in another thread regarding that you get what you deserve if you were to yell racial slurs in certain areas of Chicago), but you should have zero responsibility when you decide to go get blackout drunk ?
(this, of course, has nothing to do with people who are slipped drugs or extra drinks unknowingly)

The girl was raped and this guy's a douche, but the hypocrisy in some peoples thinking is astounding.

I think the factor is when it involves a female.
If this dude raped another man, I doubt the thread goes this far.

And so goes the Repressed White Knight Syndrome.
 

[BmorePat87]

(06-08-2016, 12:26 AM)Rotobeast Wrote: Ok.....so......
A person needs to take responsibility for their words (as mentioned in another thread regarding that you get what you deserve if you were to yell racial slurs in certain areas of Chicago), but you should have zero responsibility when you decide to go get blackout drunk ?
(this, of course, has nothing to do with people who are slipped drugs or extra drinks unknowingly)

The girl was raped and this guy's a douche, but the hypocrisy in some peoples thinking is astounding.

I think the factor is when it involves a female.
If this dude raped another man, I doubt the thread goes this far.

And so goes the Repressed White Knight Syndrome.
 

If you get blackout drunk, you are responsible for what you do. If you murder someone, rob someone, break a door, incite a riot, whatever YOU DO, you are responsible.

You are not responsible if others commit a crime against you. That's their action. They're responsible for their action. Maybe if you egged them on, but I'm not too sure how many times that happens.

[*Nately120*]

It's simple cognitive dissonance when it comes to our inability to accept that rape can happen to women who "don't deserve it" because we just hate to admit that we live in a world where bad things sometimes happen to good people. It causes us stress to think that rape can happen to women who DON'T ask for it, and we start thinking of our sisters and daughters etc. getting raped without being at fault. That's stressful, so let's just delude ourselves into thinking that stuff like that only happens to those who are asking for it, or are inattentive, or otherwise at fault.

We like to find ways to blame victims in many cases because admitting that blameless people, or we ourselves, could be the victim of misfortune or wrongdoing is upsetting. We'd rather be delusional than upset. So it goes.

[Rotobeast]

(06-08-2016, 12:39 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: If you get blackout drunk, you are responsible for what you do. If you murder someone, rob someone, break a door, incite a riot, whatever YOU DO, you are responsible.

You are not responsible if others commit a crime against you. That's their action. They're responsible for their action. Maybe if you egged them on, but I'm not too sure how many times that happens.

I understand what you are getting at, trust me (great phrase for a rape thread, eh ?).

If I were to yell slurs in Chicago, I am not doing anything illegal (providing I'm not directing it at an individual, anyway).
If a large/upstanding/brown citizen were to whip my ass, THAT would be illegal.
There are people in this thread that stated that I would be getting what I deserved.(personal responsibility and all)
However, that all goes out the window when this topic comes up.
It just doesn't make sense to me (on a psychological scale, regarding posters opinion).
The only thing that explains it is White Knight Syndrome.

[Rotobeast]

(06-08-2016, 12:43 AM)Nately120 Wrote: It's simple cognitive dissonance when it comes to our inability to accept that rape can happen to women who "don't deserve it" because we just hate to admit that we live in a world where bad things sometimes happen to good people.  It causes us stress to think that rape can happen to women who DON'T ask for it, and we start thinking of our sisters and daughters etc. getting raped without being at fault.  That's stressful, so let's just delude ourselves into thinking that stuff like that only happens to those who are asking for it, or are inattentive, or otherwise at fault.

We like to find ways to blame victims in many cases because admitting that blameless people, or we ourselves, could be the victim of misfortune or wrongdoing is upsetting.  We'd rather be delusional than upset.  So it goes.

Rape should NEVER happen.... period.
There is NO excusing it.

That being said, I understand what Beaker explained well and was attacked for.

Look at your post, women....women...women......
Look at the bathroom posts.....women.....women....women.
Drunk men can be raped by other men.
It's not as prominent, but happens.

People claim to be progressive or whatever, but still have the chivalrous white knight that saves the maiden programmed into their psyche.

It's ok...... it takes time to evolve and look past the sex of a person.

[Au165]

(06-08-2016, 12:55 AM)Rotobeast Wrote: I understand what you are getting at, trust me (great phrase for a rape thread, eh ?).

If I were to yell slurs in Chicago, I am not doing anything illegal (providing I'm not directing it at an individual, anyway).
If a large/upstanding/brown citizen were to whip my ass, THAT would be illegal.
There are people in this thread that stated that I would be getting what I deserved.(personal responsibility and all)
However, that all goes out the window when this topic comes up.
It just doesn't make sense to me (on a psychological scale, regarding posters opinion).
The only thing that explains it is White Knight Syndrome.

Once again. I think the issue is more so that people are quick to point out responsibility of the victim in rape for some reason, which eventually leads to the rape culture claims. You never see someone who gets hit by a drunk driver while driving late at night get blamed for not knowing better than to not be on the road late when statistically you are at a much higher rate to get hit, it just doesn't happen.

[BmorePat87]

(06-08-2016, 12:55 AM)Rotobeast Wrote: I understand what you are getting at, trust me (great phrase for a rape thread, eh ?).

If I were to yell slurs in Chicago, I am not doing anything illegal (providing I'm not directing it at an individual, anyway).
If a large/upstanding/brown citizen were to whip my ass, THAT would be illegal.
There are people in this thread that stated that I would be getting what I deserved.(personal responsibility and all)
However, that all goes out the window when this topic comes up.
It just doesn't make sense to me (on a psychological scale, regarding posters opinion).
The only thing that explains it is White Knight Syndrome.

I understand your argument, but you're comparing someone hitting you for insulting them to someone raping you after they found you incapacitated.