3 months for Rape

[Griever]

dont you mean "20 minutes of action"

[Beaker]

(06-08-2016, 12:55 AM)Rotobeast Wrote: I understand what you are getting at, trust me (great phrase for a rape thread, eh ?).

If I were to yell slurs in Chicago, I am not doing anything illegal (providing I'm not directing it at an individual, anyway).
If a large/upstanding/brown citizen were to whip my ass, THAT would be illegal.
There are people in this thread that stated that I would be getting what I deserved.(personal responsibility and all)

My stance was that you were lacking common sense. Should you have expected to get beaten up for doing that? You were exercising your right to free speech. Should you have been responsible enough to know that doing that could get you into trouble....yes.

[Au165]

(06-08-2016, 09:52 AM)Beaker Wrote: My stance was that you were lacking common sense. Should you have expected to get beaten up for doing that? You were exercising your right to free speech. Should you have been responsible enough to know that doing that could get you into trouble....yes.

So then answer my drunk driver example. Would you blame your daughter for getting hit by the drunk driver? You say it's lack of common sense, I argue its misapplying that same thought process across the board.

[BigPapaKain]

(06-08-2016, 10:02 AM)Au165 Wrote: So then answer my drunk driver example. Would you blame your daughter for getting hit by the drunk driver? You say it's lack of common sense, I argue its misapplying that same thought process across the board.

It's blaming people for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Is coincidence a valid defense now?

[Au165]

(06-08-2016, 10:25 AM)BigPapaKain Wrote: It's blaming people for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Is coincidence a valid defense now?

I don't know that I follow you. People point to drinking, or even going to parties, as increasing the chance you can be raped. Driving after midnight increases the chance that you will get hit by a drunk driver. You made a conscious decision to drive at a time where it is more likely you will be hit, so therefor should that person share some of the responsibility?

[Rotobeast]

(06-08-2016, 09:38 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I understand your argument, but you're comparing someone hitting you for insulting them to someone raping you after they found you incapacitated. 

I understand, but both are choices to put yourself in a disadvantaged state.
That is, of course, providing the intoxicated person had voluntarily consumed whatever would be causing their intoxication.

[Rotobeast]

(06-08-2016, 10:58 AM)Au165 Wrote: I don't know that I follow you. People point to drinking, or even going to parties, as increasing the chance you can be raped. Driving after midnight increases the chance that you will get hit by a drunk driver. You made a conscious decision to drive at a time where it is more likely you will be hit, so therefor should that person share some of the responsibility?

There are levels of calculated risk, in everything we do.
You scenario is one I would consider to be rather low.

I would consider the other examples to be quite a bit higher risk.

[Au165]

(06-08-2016, 11:26 AM)Rotobeast Wrote: There are levels of calculated risk, in everything we do.
You scenario is one I would consider to be rather low.

I would consider the other examples to be quite a bit higher risk.

So what is the metric for judging risk when it becomes the victims fault and it isn't? Also, you may want to check your facts on which one is more likely.

[Au165]

This article is an interesting look at alcohol and sexual assault.

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/10/29/2844951/link-alcohol-sexual-assault/

[Rotobeast]

(06-08-2016, 11:27 AM)Au165 Wrote: So what is the metric for judging risk when it becomes the victims fault and it isn't? Also, you may want to check your facts on which one is more likely.

There far too many variables for me to make any kind of assessment.
Every situation is unique and only the subject could know their own set of circumstances.

Are you suggesting being hit by a drunk driver is more common than rape ?

I'm not sure we could debate that, as a very large number of rapes go unreported.

[Au165]

(06-08-2016, 11:55 AM)Rotobeast Wrote: There far too many variables for me to make any kind of assessment.
Every situation is unique and only the subject could know their own set of circumstances.

Are you suggesting being hit by a drunk driver is more common than rape ?

I'm not sure we could debate that, as a very large number of rapes go unreported.

You should probably go read the article I posted. You are feeding into the narrative that is dispelled.

[*bfine32*]

(06-08-2016, 12:43 AM)Nately120 Wrote: It's simple cognitive dissonance when it comes to our inability to accept that rape can happen to women who "don't deserve it" because we just hate to admit that we live in a world where bad things sometimes happen to good people. It causes us stress to think that rape can happen to women who DON'T ask for it, and we start thinking of our sisters and daughters etc. getting raped without being at fault. That's stressful, so let's just delude ourselves into thinking that stuff like that only happens to those who are asking for it, or are inattentive, or otherwise at fault.

We like to find ways to blame victims in many cases because admitting that blameless people, or we ourselves, could be the victim of misfortune or wrongdoing is upsetting. We'd rather be delusional than upset. So it goes.

I can say I don't know of anyone who lacks the ability to accept that rape can happen to someone that doesn't deserve it.

This is what happens when we get caught up in talking in bumper stickers.

Do you think there has ever been a case of someone accused/convicted of rape that didn't deserve it?

[Sovereign Nation]

(06-08-2016, 12:10 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I can say I don't know of anyone who lacks the ability to accept that rape can happen to someone that doesn't deserve it.

This is what happens when we get caught up in talking in bumper stickers.

Do you think there has ever been a case of someone accused/convicted of rape that didn't deserve it?

Brian Banks...

[Rotobeast]

(06-08-2016, 12:03 PM)Au165 Wrote: You should probably go read the article I posted. You are feeding into the narrative that is dispelled.

I read it.
It speaks of predators and selecting victims, even before drinking.
I condemn rapists.
My posts in this thread are not about challenging the responsibility of the victim.(although I was lured that direction)
My thoughts are geared towards the rationality concerning personal responsibility, put forth by some folks that comes off as contradictory.
My perceived reason was that the majority of discussed situations involved a female victim, which invoked a beam of chivalry from some posters.
Emotions cause these subjects to be viewed irrationally.
I should have known better than to convey my thirst for ethical consistency.

[BigPapaKain]

(06-08-2016, 12:10 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I can say I don't know of anyone who lacks the ability to accept that rape can happen to someone that doesn't deserve it.

So there are situations where someone does deserve to be raped?

Pray tell.

[GMDino]

(06-08-2016, 12:14 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: Brian Banks...

Even he thinks Brock's sentence was disgusting.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/wrongfully-convicted-brian-banks-disgusted-brock-turner-ruling-article-1.2663595

[Beaker]

(06-08-2016, 10:02 AM)Au165 Wrote: So then answer my drunk driver example. Would you blame your daughter for getting hit by the drunk driver? You say it's lack of common sense, I argue its misapplying that same thought process across the board.

Bad analogy. There is a known inherent risk to driving that everyone faces every day. Driving to get to work or get groceries is pretty much a necessity. But using inflammatory speech, or getting fall down drunk is not.

[*bfine32*]

(06-08-2016, 12:25 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: So there are situations where someone does deserve to be raped?

Pray tell.

I was just using dude's words. It probably would have been best to ask him.

[Au165]

(06-08-2016, 12:21 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: I read it.
It speaks of predators and selecting victims, even before drinking.
I condemn rapists.
My posts in this thread are not about challenging the responsibility of the victim.(although I was lured that direction)
My thoughts are geared towards the rationality concerning personal responsibility,  put forth by some folks that comes off as contradictory.
My perceived reason was that the majority of discussed situations involved a female victim, which invoked a beam of chivalry from some posters.
Emotions cause these subjects to be viewed irrationally.
I should have known better than to convey my thirst for ethical consistency.

Actually it goes much deeper in to the numbers pointing out that there may not be the relation between drinking and being more likely to be raped, but rather it may be happenstance that there is alcohol as the rape was inevitable.

I don't come off as contradictory, however you do. I laid out an example of your daughter being in a car accident where she put herself in a situation that increased the likelihood it could occur. You chose to say that there are different levels of risk, but that there were too many variables for you to claim where one becomes personal responsibility and one doesn't. You see I think both the girl who was raped and the person hit by the car have no real personal responsibility. You however, want to try and use a mythical scale to make your determination.

We can talk about male rape too if you like. A frat guy gets wasted and, let's say a female assaults him. He also did nothing wrong and should not have been subject to sexual assault. The problem is most of the rapes occur from males towards females, that is why it tends to be the topic.

You thirst for ethical consistency should be quenched at home first before looking outward. As I said you don't hold personal responsibility of victims of other crimes to the same standards as those involved in rape.

[Rotobeast]

(06-08-2016, 12:25 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: So there are situations where someone does deserve to be raped?

Pray tell.

Returning the "favor" ?