3 months for Rape

[BigPapaKain]

(06-07-2016, 03:58 PM)Beaker Wrote: Yes. It was a real question. Should she be blamed for being raped? No. Is she stupid for getting so drunk she put herself in a dangerous situation? Yes. And before you all start with the rape culture stuff, men have to worry about that stuff too. They will not likely be raped, but they can be physically assaulted and robbed. I would consider myself stupid if I got fall down drunk, passed out in an alley, and was assaulted and robbed. Should I have had to worry about that? In a perfect world, no. In the real world, yes. For both men and women, there are people who will take advantage of you when you are in a compromised or weakened position. That's simply reality. Again, should she be BLAMED....no. Should she have demonstrated better common sense....yes.

AND THAT is why we have a rape culture.

There shouldn't be a 'don't get blackout drunk or someone is gonna rape you' mentality. When are we, as a species, going to stop saying dumb shit like that and start raising our sons to have more self control?

That a woman can't go out and get blackout drunk without fear of rape but I can as a male without fear of anything but an embarrassing story should sicken each and every one of you to the core.

That it doesn't proves that America is a rape culture.

[GMDino]

(06-07-2016, 03:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: ...and this will be my last reply to GMDino in this forum.

Totally without class and sophomoric in nature. You have ran your course. 

It took this long?

[Beaker]

(06-07-2016, 04:01 PM)Au165 Wrote: You are in fact blaming here because she didn't show better common sense.

Should she be expected to show better common sense...or at least competent common sense?

[Au165]

(06-07-2016, 04:04 PM)Beaker Wrote: Should she be expected to show better common sense...or at least competent common sense?

No not really. Common sense shouldn't be a requirement to not get raped as a woman.

[Beaker]

(06-07-2016, 04:03 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: AND THAT is why we have a rape culture.

There shouldn't be a 'don't get blackout drunk or someone is gonna rape you' mentality. When are we, as a species, going to stop saying dumb shit like that and start raising our sons to have more self control?

That a woman can't go out and get blackout drunk without fear of rape but I can as a male without fear of anything but an embarrassing story should sicken each and every one of you to the core.

That it doesn't proves that America is a rape culture.

If you want to go with that line of thinking, when are we going to raise both our sons and our daughters to have more self control in regards to drinking?

[Beaker]

(06-07-2016, 04:05 PM)Au165 Wrote: No not really. Common sense shouldn't be a requirement to not get raped as a woman.

What about getting robbed and beaten as a man?

[GMDino]

(06-07-2016, 04:06 PM)Beaker Wrote: What about getting robbed and beaten as a man?

The same.

If I get mugged walking down the street at night how can you blame me?

[Benton]

(06-07-2016, 03:58 PM)Beaker Wrote:   Should she have demonstrated better common sense....yes.

I don't think anyone will debate that (although around here, someone will probably prove me wrong). But you led with "But does the girl shoulder any responsibility for getting herself so stupidly drunk?"

And that answer is, no. Why? Because if you take out "so stupidly drunk" and insert "going to a party" it's still blaming the victim. "If you take out "so stupidly drunk" and insert "into a situation with a guy she didn't know" it's still blaming the victim. If you take out "so stupidly drunk" and insert "all dressed up around horny guys" it's still blaming the victim.

Whether she was drunk or not drunk, in a bad place or a safe one, dressed attractively or wearing sweat pants, whatever — a guy doesn't have the right to have sex with her without her consenting. That's what it all boils down to.

[Beaker]

(06-07-2016, 04:09 PM)GMDino Wrote: The same.

If I get mugged walking down the street at night how can you blame me?

I don't blame you for that. But I do put some responsibility on your shoulders if you get stupid, fall down drunk and get beaten and robbed. Remember, I'm not coming at this saying the girl should be blamed. I'm simply asking if she bears any responsibility. Like I said, I am viewing this from a parent's perspective with a daughter who is about to go off to college. I have had talks with her about not putting herself into dangerous situations. If I had a son, I would have the same talk with him. Both sexes face different dangers. women can be raped, men robbed and beaten....both can be murdered. I think common sense needs to come into play. I think awareness needs to come into play. I think reality needs to come into play. The stanford kid was wrong for doing what he did. He was one of those people who took advantage of a person in a weakened state.

[GMDino]

(06-07-2016, 04:06 PM)Beaker Wrote: If you want to go with that line of thinking, when are we going to raise both our sons and our daughters to have more self control in regards to drinking?

Some of us are.

More of us should.

[Beaker]

(06-07-2016, 04:15 PM)Benton Wrote: But you led with "But does the girl shoulder any responsibility for getting herself so stupidly drunk?"

And that answer is, no. Why? Because if you take out "so stupidly drunk" and insert "going to a party" it's still blaming the victim. "If you take out "so stupidly drunk" and insert "into a situation with a guy she didn't know" it's still blaming the victim. If you take out "so stupidly drunk" and insert "all dressed up around horny guys" it's still blaming the victim.

Whether she was drunk or not drunk, in a bad place or a safe one, dressed attractively or wearing sweat pants, whatever — a guy doesn't have the right to have sex with her without her consenting. That's what it all boils down to.

I am not debating that the guy was wrong. But do you think the rape would have occurred if she had been totally sober and had all her wits about her? Or at least, would it have been as likely? I don't know many people that are not aware that bad things can happen to you if you don't control your urges to drink and get blackout drunk.

[BigPapaKain]

(06-07-2016, 04:06 PM)Beaker Wrote: If you want to go with that line of thinking, when are we going to raise both our sons and our daughters to have more self control in regards to drinking?

So do you go out knowing exactly how much you're going to drink every time you step out the door? Have you always had such restraint?

That you'd compare rape to getting more drunk than one should really speaks volumes as to the kind of person you are.

[Beaker]

(06-07-2016, 04:17 PM)GMDino Wrote: Some of us are.

More of us should.

I agree. That's what I am trying to teach my daughter. If she gets stupid drunk, should she expect to get raped? No. But should she understand and knowingly realize that bad things can happen if she does....yes.

[SteelCitySouth]

(06-07-2016, 04:16 PM)Beaker Wrote: I don't blame you for that. But I do put some responsibility on your shoulders if you get stupid, fall down drunk and get beaten and robbed. Remember, I'm not coming at this saying the girl should be blamed. I'm simply asking if she bears any responsibility. Like I said, I am viewing this from a parent's perspective with a daughter who is about to go off to college. I have had talks with her about not putting herself into dangerous situations. If I had a son, I would have the same talk with him. Both sexes face different dangers. women can be raped, men robbed and beaten....both can be murdered. I think common sense needs to come into play. I think awareness needs to come into play. I think reality needs to come into play. The stanford kid was wrong for doing what he did. He was one of those people who took advantage of a person in a weakened state.

Okay.  Let's imagine she does bear some of the responsibility.  Now what?  How do we adjudicate that responsibility?  Does the offender receive a lighter sentence?  Does the victim receive some type of sentence or a fine?  

Edit: Bear!!!! RAWEAAEERRE

[Beaker]

(06-07-2016, 04:21 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: So do you go out knowing exactly how much you're going to drink every time you step out the door? Have you always had such restraint?

That you'd compare rape to getting more drunk than one should really speaks volumes as to the kind of person you are.

I am smart enough to know that if I drink enough by choice to blackout, that not so nice things can happen to me. I know that if I plan to get that drunk, then I would also plan to have someone with me who would not, and who could have my back. Just like its responsible to appoint a designated driver in your group if you know you will be drinking heavily. And the fact that you think I am comparing rape to getting drunk speaks volumes to the type of person you are.

[BigPapaKain]

(06-07-2016, 04:24 PM)Beaker Wrote: I am smart enough to know that if I drink enough by choice to blackout, that not so nice things can happen to me. I know that if I plan to get that drunk, then I would also plan to have someone with me who would not, and who could have my back. Just like its responsible to appoint a designated driver in your group if you know you will be drinking heavily. And the fact that you think I am comparing rape to getting drunk speaks volumes to the type of person you are.

Cool - part one is answered. Try and follow through on the rest of my post.

And I don't think it - you flat out typed it. Nice mirror and matching smoke machine you got there.

[Beaker]

(06-07-2016, 04:22 PM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: Okay.  Let's imagine she does bear some of the responsibility.  Now what?  How do we adjudicate that responsibility?  Does the offender receive a lighter sentence?  Does the victim receive some type of sentence or a fine?  

I don't think the offender should get a lighter sentence. Maybe there should be more of an awareness campaign about the dangers of binge drinking. Even though we say we are aware, we still see these things happen to both sexes who get blackout drunk....yet it doesn't seem to reduce the problem. Like I said, all I can do is try to teach my kid about responsibility and the dangers of the real world.

[Au165]

(06-07-2016, 04:28 PM)Beaker Wrote: I don't think the offender should get a lighter sentence. Maybe there should be more of an awareness campaign about the dangers of binge drinking. Even though we say we are aware, we still see these things happen to both sexes who get blackout drunk....yet it doesn't seem to reduce the problem. Like I said, all I can do is try to teach my kid about responsibility and the dangers of the real world.

If someone doesn't give consent when they are drunk and doesn't give consent when sober......what's the difference?

[Beaker]

(06-07-2016, 04:26 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Cool - part one is answered. Try and follow through on the rest of my post.

And I don't think it - you flat out typed it. Nice mirror and matching smoke machine you got there.

What is part two? Ask again, I'm sorry if I missed it.

And no I didn't compare rape to drinking. I said people of both sexes who get fall down drunk put themselves into compromised positions that others can take advantage of. Men and women face different consequences, bot both can be severe.

[SteelCitySouth]

(06-07-2016, 04:28 PM)Beaker Wrote: I don't think the offender should get a lighter sentence. Maybe there should be more of an awareness campaign about the dangers of binge drinking. Even though we say we are aware, we still see these things happen to both sexes who get blackout drunk....yet it doesn't seem to reduce the problem. Like I said, all I can do is try to teach my kid about responsibility and the dangers of the real world.

So you are simply talking about interpersonal responsibility...Like having to live with the choices you make personally not legally?  Like having to live with his very public incident for the rest of your life?  

I think she feels this.