3rd Presidential Debate

[Dill]

(10-23-2020, 12:55 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: One of Trump's strong points (that I had never even considered) is making the minimum decided by the states rather than having a national minimum wage, which is genius because some states are doing better economically and can afford to pay more than other states.  

I think that doing that could do A LOT for our country.  

Who do you think won?  What stood out to you?

There is already a different minimum wage in different states, isn't there? It's 7.25 in PA, but 11.83 in NY, and 8.75 in Delaware and 8.46 in Florida, but 12.00 an hour in CA.

Biden dismissed the "Dem states are a disaster" theme and presented himself as president of the whole country. The virus is affecting red and blue states.
He did not go after the President's children.
He minimized response to the Hunter Biden crap, emphasizing that his tax records were public for the last 22 years. 
Biggest moment was maybe when he corrected Trump's "Coyotes brought them" defense of his and Miller's child separation policy by saying "They came here with their parents." 
I think Biden did confuse Lincoln and Trump at one point. "Lincoln was the most racist president" 

Trump did better than the first debate. But still showed that tendency to shift from policy to rumor and gossip. Joe got millions from Moscow?? Big theme inside the Fox bubble, but a nonstarter outside that. And the FBI is not interested either. (That's why the MSM is "ignoring" the story.) 

No one can stop Trump from spreading disinformation about COVID-19. He is not immune, the fatality rate is higher than 1% for young people iand it attacks, and does damage to bodily organs of many survivors, we are not yet turning the corner but poised before another surge, the vaccine will not be ready until the second or third quarter of next year, etc. 

As I mentioned in an earlier email, Trump cannot really explain policy. He makes single assertions like "We have to open the country." But he cannot unfold a policy in stages, laying out cause/effect and consequences. Closest he came was "It came out of China, then it went out into the world."  He can only say people have praised it or it was more successful than anything before and people around the world were surprised; or if its someone else's it was "disastrous."

The children whose parents we now cannot find are "well cared for, very well cared for"? (That funny sound you heard at that moment was millions of mothers wincing.)

The "1994 Crime Bill" doesn't have much force when the issue is raised by the guy who wanted the death penalty for the innocent Central Park Five "predators." 

Same stuff said in front of campaign rallies, which gets roars of approval, but falls dead on the national stage where people gasp in shock instead. Trump looked uncomfortable, stressed, unsure.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(10-23-2020, 03:05 AM)Dill Wrote: There is already a different minimum wage in different states, isn't there?

Here we see Trump’s true genius; taking credit for shit he had nothing to do with.

[*PhilHos*]

My thoughts on the debate:
Both candidates performed well but I don't think either side won or lost the debate. They both had their good moments and bad moments but nothing major to the point that one won/lost.

I thought the moderator was overall pretty fair. There was still some left-leaning biases but for the most part, she treated each candidate fairly, gave them both ample time to respond to each other, didn't interrupt, fact check, nor debate the candidates. Probably the best Trump could've asked for from a non-conservative moderator.

[*PhilHos*]

(10-23-2020, 03:05 AM)Dill Wrote: There is already a different minimum wage in different states, isn't there? It's 7.25 in PA, but 11.83 in NY, and 8.75 in Delaware and 8.46 in Florida, but 12.00 an hour in CA.

I'm honestly surprised you're unaware that there is a federal minimum wage which is currently at $7.25, I believe. PA is using the federal minimum wage. Other states are allowed to have higher minimum wage but they cannot have a lower minimum wage.
The talk from Biden is making the federal minimum wage $15 which would then require every state whose minimum wage is lower than $15 to be bumped up to $15.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(10-23-2020, 03:05 AM)Dill Wrote: There is already a different minimum wage in different states, isn't there? It's 7.25 in PA, but 11.83 in NY, and 8.75 in Delaware and 8.46 in Florida, but 12.00 an hour in CA.

Biden dismissed the "Dem states are a disaster" theme and presented himself as president of the whole country. The virus is affecting red and blue states.
He did not go after the President's children.
He minimized response to the Hunter Biden crap, emphasizing that his tax records were public for the last 22 years. 
Biggest moment was maybe when he corrected Trump's "Coyotes brought them" defense of his and Miller's child separation policy by saying "They came here with their parents." 
I think Biden did confuse Lincoln and Trump at one point. "Lincoln was the most racist president"

Trump did better than the first debate. But still showed that tendency to shift from policy to rumor and gossip. Joe got millions from Moscow?? Big theme inside the Fox bubble, but a nonstarter outside that. And the FBI is not interested either. (That's why the MSM is "ignoring" the story.) 

No one can stop Trump from spreading disinformation about COVID-19. He is not immune, the fatality rate is higher than 1% for young people iand it attacks, and does damage to bodily organs of many survivors, we are not yet turning the corner but poised before another surge, the vaccine will not be ready until the second or third quarter of next year, etc. 

As I mentioned in an earlier email, Trump cannot really explain policy. He makes single assertions like "We have to open the country." But he cannot unfold a policy in stages, laying out cause/effect and consequences. Closest he came was "It came out of China, then it went out into the world."  He can only say people have praised it or it was more successful than anything before and people around the world were surprised; or if its someone else's it was "disastrous."

The children whose parents we now cannot find are "well cared for, very well cared for"? (That funny sound you heard at that moment was millions of mothers wincing.)

The "1994 Crime Bill" doesn't have much force when the issue is raised by the guy who wanted the death penalty for the innocent Central Park Five "predators." 

Same stuff said in front of campaign rallies, which gets roars of approval, but falls dead on the national stage where people gasp in shock instead. Trump looked uncomfortable, stressed, unsure.

I believe that was a well-timed joke.

[Belsnickel]

(10-23-2020, 09:20 AM)PhilHos Wrote: My thoughts on the debate:
Both candidates performed well but I don't think either side won or lost the debate. They both had their good moments and bad moments but nothing major to the point that one won/lost.

I thought the moderator was overall pretty fair. There was still some left-leaning biases but for the most part, she treated each candidate fairly, gave them both ample time to respond to each other, didn't interrupt, fact check, nor debate the candidates. Probably the best Trump could've asked for from a non-conservative moderator.

Most of what I saw from folks on the left was a lot of complaining about the moderator allowing Trump to consistently barge in to get the last word and not checking that when it should have been checked.

I don't know, though, because I didn't watch it. I had just gotten home from teaching some Scouts about our government for their Citizenship in the Nation merit badge and I was feeling too good about civics to bring myself down with the circus.

[*Nately120*]

(10-23-2020, 09:20 AM)PhilHos Wrote: My thoughts on the debate:
Both candidates performed well but I don't think either side won or lost the debate. They both had their good moments and bad moments but nothing major to the point that one won/lost.

I thought the moderator was overall pretty fair. There was still some left-leaning biases but for the most part, she treated each candidate fairly, gave them both ample time to respond to each other, didn't interrupt, fact check, nor debate the candidates. Probably the best Trump could've asked for from a non-conservative moderator.

Who would have been a Trump leaning moderator, though?  There are plenty of established Republicans who are turning away from Trump, so I'm not even sure if a conservative would favor him.  It would need to be less  "conservative moderator" and more "pro Trump" moderator. 

[BmorePat87]

(10-23-2020, 09:27 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: I believe that was a well-timed joke.

Yep, the full line was "Abraham Lincoln here is one of the most racist presidents we've had in modern history".

He was mocking Trump who had just said that he had done more for Black Americans than any president "except maybe Lincoln". 

[*PhilHos*]

(10-23-2020, 09:34 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Most of what I saw from folks on the left was a lot of complaining about the moderator allowing Trump to consistently barge in to get the last word and not checking that when it should have been checked.

I don't know, though, because I didn't watch it. I had just gotten home from teaching some Scouts about our government for their Citizenship in the Nation merit badge and I was feeling too good about civics to bring myself down with the circus.

Trump definitely went past his time a few times, but she let him finish. And I presume she would've done the same for Biden if he kept talking. But, like I said, she treated each candidate fairly and made sure this was a debate between them two. She just asked questions, allowed for responses to the responses, and asked a few follow up questions. She did not insert herself into the debate. 

[*bfine32*]

I want to hear more about our past good relationship with Hitler

[*Nately120*]

(10-23-2020, 09:44 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Yep, the full line was "Abraham Lincoln here is one of the most racist presidents we've had in modern history".

He was mocking Trump who had just said that he had done more for Black Americans than any president "except maybe Lincoln". 

I will say for a final debate with a sitting president trailing in the polls and never having held an actual majority of voters, Trump repeating his same standard talking points baffles me. 

He's had his 40% spellbound since day 1, yet he continues to act as if they are the only people in this country that matter.  Maybe his ego prevents him from trying to speak towards people who aren't smart enough to already love him. 

[BmorePat87]

Biden screwed up by accepting false premises and wasting time to respond to lies rather than sticking to his message.

If Trump makes it a referendum on Obama/Biden failures, just reject the premise outright and pivot to his failures and your message.

[*PhilHos*]

(10-23-2020, 09:40 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Who would have been a Trump leaning moderator, though?  There are plenty of established Republicans who are turning away from Trump, so I'm not even sure if a conservative would favor him.  It would need to be less  "conservative moderator" and more "pro Trump" moderator. 

Hannity? Rush Limbaugh? Tucker Carlson? I'm sure there's more. 

[*Nately120*]

(10-23-2020, 09:55 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Hannity? Rush Limbaugh? Tucker Carlson? I'm sure there's more. 

Pretty sure anyone who has used the "no one is supposed to take my rhetoric seriously" defense could be ruled out. 

[Belsnickel]

(10-23-2020, 09:55 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Hannity? Rush Limbaugh? Tucker Carlson? I'm sure there's more. 

Those would never be acceptable, though. You'd have to at least find actual news personalities, and all of them are entertainers (by their own admission or that of their networks). It would be like having Colbert moderate.

[*Nately120*]

(10-23-2020, 09:57 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Those would never be acceptable, though. You'd have to at least find actual news personalities, and all of them are entertainers (by their own admission or that of their networks). It would be like having Colbert moderate.

Fine, Alex Jones or Eric Trump.  Have it your way!


But seriously I doubt Trump even wants a moderator on his side. His complaining about being mistreated is key to his branding.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(10-23-2020, 09:57 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Those would never be acceptable, though. You'd have to at least find actual news personalities, and all of them are entertainers (by their own admission or that of their networks). It would be like having Colbert moderate.

Even then, I'd think Colbert would be incredibly-fair and cordial

[*Nately120*]

(10-23-2020, 09:54 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Biden screwed up by accepting false premises and wasting time to respond to lies rather than sticking to his message.

If Trump makes it a referendum on Obama/Biden failures, just reject the premise outright and pivot to his failures and your message.

Points for Biden using the word malarkey, though. 

[CJD]

(10-23-2020, 12:55 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: I haven't seen that many sites with an analysis on the debate tonight (actually, only one), and it had Biden as the winner.  

The questions were obviously favored to help Biden, which was clear by Biden reading notes before the moderator even asked the first question, but Trump, for the most part, kept his cool and didn't interrupt Biden or the moderator.

I actually think Biden didn't do too badly.  

Back to a lot of it being scripted, though, Biden said something about Rudy Giulian, forgot where he was going with it, started to say "I better not......" again like he's been trained to do when he loses his train of thought, but then he remembered it and continued on with what he was saying.

One of Trump's strong points (that I had never even considered) is making the minimum decided by the states rather than having a national minimum wage, which is genius because some states are doing better economically and can afford to pay more than other states.  

I think that doing that could do A LOT for our country.  

Who do you think won?  What stood out to you?

I watched the first half of the debate before my son began wailing and we had to go put him to bed but the hour I saw was infinitely more tolerable than the previous debate. Questions were being answered and there were very few, if any, interruptions from either side.

I liked what Biden had to say for the most part. I think they stayed on the whole "who gets money from other countries more" a little bit too long. It's clear that both Trump and Biden abused legal structures to benefit from other countries and that's a bad look, I don't know what either hoped to gain from emphasizing the others' shady practices and trying to ignore their own. We're gonna have a president who has financial dealings in other countries. We just need to accept that.

The Giuliani thing was weird but I don't think it was a case of scripting or forgetting anything, he said "And your buddy -- No I better not, well yea I will..." before he mentioned Rudy. To me, I think his hang up with using condescending phrases like "your buddy" to refer to him rather than hesitating to mention Rudy in general. In the last debate, despite all of Trump's interrupting, Biden still caught a little bit of flack for telling him to shut up, so I think he said and then instantly regretted using "your buddy" because it was obviously said in an insulting manner.
Honestly, the way he was building up to that point I thought he was going to say something like "your buddy Vladimir Putin," as in someone who it would actually be very controversial to call Trump's buddy. Once he said Rudy, my ears perked back down.

As far as state minimum wages, those already exist. I didn't see that part, but if Trump was implying that state minimum wages don't exist, that's a lie. Like, for example, Ohio's minimum wage is $8.55 and the federal minimum wage is $7.25. 

I think some states do not have minimum wages or their minimum wage is less than the federal minimum wage, in which case the federal minimum wage is implemented. It's likely lower than nearly any state minimum wage because it's meant to ensure a bare minimum wage for all workers. If you eliminated the federal minimum wage, then states would need to be more vigilant with implementing and updating their minimum wages and then there would be situations where a state needs its minimum wage to be increased but the governor of the state is unwilling to do so for whatever reason, then you have a financial crisis. The federal minimum wage is just a low water mark. Something to ensure that no one is every truly exploited for their labor (not more so than they already are at such a meager minimum wage, but it's better to have an insufficient federal minimum wage than none at all).

[*PhilHos*]

(10-23-2020, 09:57 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Those would never be acceptable, though. You'd have to at least find actual news personalities, and all of them are entertainers (by their own admission or that of their networks). It would be like having Colbert moderate.

No doubt, but they would definitely be pro-Trump moderators.