$40 billion for Ukraine, no baby formula for the US

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

The title rather says it all. I am absolutely in favor of supporting Ukraine against the Russian invasion of their country, and have said so from the beginning. But you have to start to wonder at what point should we be spending this money on our own people? When Musk bought Twitter I heard, numerous times, left leaning people talk about how he could "end hunger" with the $44 billion he used to buy Twitter. Why are we not hearing the same thing here? Again, I support Ukraine, and would hate to see them lose to Russia, but our country is a mess right now, rampant inflation and now a shortage of baby formula that could have severe repercussions for developing children. I'll close by commenting that they authorized $7 billion more than Biden even asked for and that both parties share the blame here.

[Stewy]

(05-11-2022, 07:42 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: The title rather says it all.  I am absolutely in favor of supporting Ukraine against the Russian invasion of their country, and have said so from the beginning.  But you have to start to wonder at what point should we be spending this money on our own people?  When Musk bought Twitter I heard, numerous times, left leaning people talk about how he could "end hunger" with the $44 billion he used to buy Twitter.  Why are we not hearing the same thing here?  Again, I support Ukraine, and would hate to see them lose to Russia, but our country is a mess right now, rampant inflation and now a shortage of baby formula that could have severe repercussions for developing children.  I'll close by commenting that they authorized $7 billion more than Biden even asked for and that both parties share the blame here.

Isn't this a supply chain issue and not a $$$$ issue?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(05-11-2022, 07:58 PM)Stewy Wrote: Isn't this a supply chain issue and not a $$$$ issue?

I don't know that those are mutually exclusive concepts.  Say it was purely a supply chain issue, would not spending $40 billion dollars on said supply chain issue go a long way towards fixing it, and rather quickly?

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

I'm confused. When did conservatives start caring about children after they're born?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(05-11-2022, 08:09 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: I'm confused. When did conservatives start caring about children after they're born?

As banal as always. 

[Belsnickel]

(05-11-2022, 08:04 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I don't know that those are mutually exclusive concepts.  Say it was purely a supply chain issue, would not spending $40 billion dollars on said supply chain issue go a long way towards fixing it, and rather quickly?

Hard to say. One of the first things we learn in policy classes is that more money doesn't always help, especially when it comes to the private sector. Supply chain issues are the result of so many different moving parts that it would be hard to really put something in place that would work. Do you focus on the transportation? The labor? And on which side of the chain? The more moving parts the less effective funding is.

All that being said, I don't disagree with you. I have been talking about this for a long time, though. For instance, the defense budget passed in early 2021 was more than we have spent on our military since WWII when you adjust it for inflation. More than we spent during the Cold War years, more than during Vietnam, 50% more than the average budget during the Cold War. Then we saw Biden come in with an even higher request for the military.

What you're saying about the aid to Ukraine is what I and others have been saying for years in relation to the defense budget and other things for years. Now, I want Ukraine to win, but I also don't know how much I agree with the money we are pumping into the conflict, either. Lots of things there for me that I am not a fan of.

Anyway, just my two cents.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(05-11-2022, 08:33 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Hard to say. One of the first things we learn in policy classes is that more money doesn't always help, especially when it comes to the private sector. Supply chain issues are the result of so many different moving parts that it would be hard to really put something in place that would work. Do you focus on the transportation? The labor? And on which side of the chain? The more moving parts the less effective funding is.

All that being said, I don't disagree with you. I have been talking about this for a long time, though. For instance, the defense budget passed in early 2021 was more than we have spent on our military since WWII when you adjust it for inflation. More than we spent during the Cold War years, more than during Vietnam, 50% more than the average budget during the Cold War. Then we saw Biden come in with an even higher request for the military.

What you're saying about the aid to Ukraine is what I and others have been saying for years in relation to the defense budget and other things for years. Now, I want Ukraine to win, but I also don't know how much I agree with the money we are pumping into the conflict, either. Lots of things there for me that I am not a fan of.

Anyway, just my two cents.

Good points, as always.  I'm infinitely more comfortable spending money on our military, although I will admit our defense budget is obscene, rather than that of another country.  I suppose this falls under the low hanging fruit of government, something that takes little to no effort that you can crow about at election time.  The problem is, in this instance, is that domestic issues are in the toilet and, as you say, there's no easy fix.  Whether it falls on them or not Biden and his government look incompetent on this issue.  I won't even get into others.

[Stewy]

(05-11-2022, 08:04 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I don't know that those are mutually exclusive concepts.  Say it was purely a supply chain issue, would not spending $40 billion dollars on said supply chain issue go a long way towards fixing it, and rather quickly?

If products are not available then no am amount of $$$$ matters.

[*Nately120*]

(05-11-2022, 08:38 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Good points, as always.  I'm infinitely more comfortable spending money on our military, although I will admit our defense budget is obscene, rather than that of another country.  I suppose this falls under the low hanging fruit of government, something that takes little to no effort that you can crow about at election time.  The problem is, in this instance, is that domestic issues are in the toilet and, as you say, there's no easy fix.  Whether it falls on them or not Biden and his government look incompetent on this issue.  I won't even get into others.

Yeah, this a little bit of the same ol' wine in a brand new bottle.  For a long time we've thrown a lot of money into various military interests and we've also heard a lot of complaints that we have Americans going without while we sink nearly fictitious amounts of money into other countries. It's easier to call it a necessary defense expenditure when we have boots on the ground, though.

If we completely regress we can hear Biden tell us that no price is too great because we gotta fight 'em over there so we don't have to fight 'em over here.

[NATI BENGALS]

What’s the cause of this baby shortage? I know there has been recalls on baby food from china in the past. I wonder if the Shanghai lock down has anything to do with this?

[HarleyDog]

(05-11-2022, 11:43 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: What’s the cause of this baby shortage? I know there has been recalls on baby food from china in the past. I wonder if the Shanghai lock down has anything to do with this?

You might be on to something here. Let's hope this isn't the case along with our medications for survival also lay in the hands of a country that doesn't like us. If baby formula is in short supply, this is a problem that should be escalated to resolve. Yes, mothers can solve some of that by breastfeeding, but it's not a cure all for most families due to heal and other situations.

I'm torn on Ukraine. We really can't let them lose. We are fighting a war General Patton warned us about, but through the weapons furnished to Ukraine. So, when you think about it, we are defeating the Russians without putting our troops at harm. I mean, Isn't that what everyone want's? 

As for China, I think it's pretty obvious there's not any trust there. When Putin started his atrocities against Ukraine, they showed their cards by not condemning Russia's actions. 

[hollodero]

Even though times are tough economically, I can not quite imagine that the US actually has to make a tough decision between helping Ukraine and feeding their own children. That choice is not real like in the meme of the dude that has to choose between two buttons. In that sense, I consider the initial question to be a bit sensational.

As for financial aid to Ukraine, I want to mention that the US is not standing alone. And has a self-proclaimed leadership role in the western world. European countries just have to decide how much own well-being they want to give up to defeat Putin. And that's a tough choice to make, especially regarding banning Russian oil and gas. If the US goes forward and shows that they are willing to really help in a substantial manner, the willingness of other countries to make some tougher sacrifices and help out more extensively is increased. In that sense, the dollars spent by the US multiply.

[CarolinaBengalFanGuy]

Question, what is baby formula made out of and do we have a shortage of those materials and why. If so we could pump effort into increasing production of those raw materials. (Best I can see in general it's some kind of altered cow's milk). If it's logistics then we could certainly pump money into incentives or something to have whatever emergency material everyone is needed to get that supply running more often or something. Idk these are random thoughts I have no idea how hard it is to potentially make formula and there's certainly a shortage of drivers recently.

[Brownshoe]

(05-11-2022, 07:42 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: The title rather says it all.  I am absolutely in favor of supporting Ukraine against the Russian invasion of their country, and have said so from the beginning.  But you have to start to wonder at what point should we be spending this money on our own people?  When Musk bought Twitter I heard, numerous times, left leaning people talk about how he could "end hunger" with the $44 billion he used to buy Twitter.  Why are we not hearing the same thing here?  Again, I support Ukraine, and would hate to see them lose to Russia, but our country is a mess right now, rampant inflation and now a shortage of baby formula that could have severe repercussions for developing children.  I'll close by commenting that they authorized $7 billion more than Biden even asked for and that both parties share the blame here.

Yeah the baby formula shortage really sucks right now. I had twins last November, and we're trying to feed them more "solids" now (like mashed up banana/added oatmean/rice in milk). It's really annoying we get a shortage as soon as I have twins lol

[Brownshoe]

(05-12-2022, 03:24 AM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: Question, what is baby formula made out of and do we have a shortage of those materials and why. If so we could pump effort into increasing production of those raw materials. (Best I can see in general it's some kind of altered cow's milk). If it's logistics then we could certainly pump money into incentives or something to have whatever emergency material everyone is needed to get that supply running more often or something. Idk these are random thoughts I have no idea how hard it is to potentially make formula and there's certainly a shortage of drivers recently.

Back in the day people used to make baby formula with just powdered milk and sugar. They add a bunch more stuff now obviously, but the big reason why there's a shortage is because babies died from drinking Similac throughout the country and there's a massive recall for that brand (which was the biggest formula brand).

[CarolinaBengalFanGuy]

(05-12-2022, 03:59 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: Back in the day people used to make baby formula with just powdered milk and sugar. They add a bunch more stuff now obviously, but the big reason why there's a shortage is because babies died from drinking Similac throughout the country and there's a massive recall for that brand (which was the biggest formula brand).

Any research on how many babies died or do you know off hand by chance?

[Brownshoe]

(05-12-2022, 04:52 AM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: Any research on how many babies died or do you know off hand by chance?

I think the formula was contaminated by some kind of bacteria or something. I haven't seen any kind of similac on the shelves for a while because of it.

[CJD]

I would like more money to be spent internally as well. Our international support dollars and military budget, at a minimum, could be re-allocated and it would improve the lives of Americans, I think.

[Sled21]

(05-11-2022, 09:05 PM)Stewy Wrote: If products are not available then no am amount of $$$$ matters.

Ah, but it IS available. But just like the Anti-viral pill for Covid, only those the govt. deems worthy gets it..... you have to be an illegal crossing the border.....

https://www.foxnews.com/us/gop-rep-illegal-migrants-pallets-baby-formula

Quote:Pallets of baby formula are being sent to holding facilities at the border amid a shortage that has seen many parents unable to find it at their local stores, according to a GOP representative. 

"They are sending pallets, pallets of baby formula to the border," Rep. Kat Cammack, R-Fla., said in a video posted to Facebook Wednesday. "Meanwhile, in our own district at home, we cannot find baby formula."


"I don't know about you, but if I am a mother, anywhere anytime in America, and I go to my local Walmart or Target or Publix or Safeway or Kroger or wherever it may be that you shop and you are seeing their shelves and you are seeing signs that you are not able to get baby formula," she said. "And then you see the American government sending by the pallet thousands and thousands of containers of baby formula to the border, that would make my blood boil."

And for those who will just say "Fox News"... there are pictures. Can't wait to see who gets food during the upcoming food crisis.

[*Nately120*]

(05-12-2022, 11:46 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Can't wait to see who gets food during the upcoming food crisis.

The people with the machine guns, duh.