5/30 ruling against Trump

[FormerlyBengalRugby]

Who is in the right and why?

I think it will be flipped quick on appeal, as many legal scholars do.

Wanted an open forum for opinions.

[Luvnit2]

(05-30-2024, 10:43 PM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: Who is in the right and why?

I think it will be flipped quick on appeal, as many legal scholars do.

Wanted an open forum for opinions.

I also think it will be overturned on appeal. But, not in 2024.

[NATI BENGALS]

Should businesses be allowed to falsify financial records?

Are there legal consequences if they do?

What is the difference between misdemeanor fraud and felony fraud?

Honestly answer those questions and free yourself from the hooks of the right wing media machine.

[*pally*]

Why does this need a separate thread? There is already a multi page one discussing this very topic

[FormerlyBengalRugby]

(05-31-2024, 12:32 AM)pally Wrote: Why does this need a separate thread?  There is already a multi page one discussing this very topic

I thought discussing the verdict and potential influence on the campaigns was an interesting enough topic to be discussed seperate from the trial itself, which came to a conclusion.

Check in with the mods if you want the tread deleted.

Or just do not participate?

That said, I do not see the convictions standing, and only eroding the trust of the judicial system.

[*pally*]

(05-31-2024, 07:35 AM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: I thought discussing the verdict and potential influence on the campaigns was an interesting enough topic to be discussed seperate from the trial itself, which came to a conclusion.

Check in with the mods if you want the tread deleted.

Or just do not participate?

That said, I do not see the convictions standing, and only eroding the trust of the judicial system.

and there are just as many people who believe the conviction will stand amd continue to have faith in the system

As for the campaign, it hardens the support from people already supporting him. It hardens the lack of support from people opposed to him. And based on pre trial polling which is always iffy, moved more independents away from him, due to the felony conviction, than pulled towards them. Time will tell on that.
We will hear even more whining about how everyone hates him because he is so wonderful. And when he loses it’s because the world is rigged against him or in oth r words same crap different day. Oh and gimme money

[Arturo Bandini]

Dude just got convicted uninamously of 34 felonies and people think he's going to win the appeal.


Maybe it would be an appropriate time to wake up.

[FormerlyBengalRugby]

(05-31-2024, 07:50 AM)pally Wrote: and there are just as many people who believe the conviction will stand amd continue to have faith in the system

As for the campaign, it hardens the support from people already supporting him.  It hardens the lack of support from people opposed to him.  And based on pre trial polling which is always iffy, moved more independents away from him, due to the felony conviction, than pulled towards them.  Time will tell on that.
We will hear even more whining about how everyone hates him because he is so wonderful.  And when he loses it’s because the world is rigged against him or in oth r words same crap different day.  Oh and gimme money

The verdict had not impact on voting.

I believe all sides agree it was a book keeping error, and did not move the needle on anyone voting for or against DJT.

It is a momentary label his opponents get to slap on him for the election, which was the point of everything, along with keeping him from being able to campaign.

The nation sees it. The news day should be overflowing with the TDS crowd reveling in the guilty verdicts.

[GMDino]

(05-31-2024, 08:06 AM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: The verdict had not impact on voting.

I believe all sides agree it was a book keeping error, and did not move the needle on anyone voting for or against DJT.

It is a momentary label his opponents get to slap on him for the election, which was the point of everything, along with keeping him from being able to campaign.

The nation sees it. The news day should be overflowing with the TDS crowd reveling in the guilty verdicts.

No, a lot of people believe...as the facts showed...this was a plan to cover up something that wasn't a crime.  

None of these people ever learned from Nixon:
1) The cover up is worse.
2) You are not smarter than everyone.
3) Treating people badly who covered for you will eventually lead to them telling the truth about you.

I agree it probably did change the mind of anyone who had their mind made up already.  There has to be a handful of people that look at this and go "wow...he really did do something".  Even though he is appealing other judgements against him already.

How many convictions until people can look at see that he's dirty and always has been?

[Belsnickel]

(05-31-2024, 08:06 AM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: The verdict had not impact on voting.

I believe all sides agree it was a book keeping error, and did not move the needle on anyone voting for or against DJT.

It is a momentary label his opponents get to slap on him for the election, which was the point of everything, along with keeping him from being able to campaign.

The nation sees it. The news day should be overflowing with the TDS crowd reveling in the guilty verdicts.

This is a pretty naive take. The polling we have seen shows that, yes, 75-80% of voters will not change their positions on Trump based on this. However, in a race this close, that 20-25% on the margins will make a difference. Will they be swayed? Uncertain at this point. We will see what comes out in the next few weeks. Right now the right wing media and the Trump campaign are playing defense by making the claims that are the basis for what you say here. It's their job to say these things, so I don't begrudge them, but it also isn't necessarily reality.

[Belsnickel]

So, I guess my question for those that think this will get overturned on appeal is what, specifically, do you think allows for this verdict to be vacated? What part or parts of the trial process opened the door for this possibility?

[GMDino]

(05-31-2024, 08:33 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: So, I guess my question for those that think this will get overturned on appeal is what, specifically, do you think allows for this verdict to be vacated? What part or parts of the trial process opened the door for this possibility?

Great question.  I heard some talking heads during the trial say this or that might be a cause to appeal but I'm not sure about now.

[*pally*]

(05-31-2024, 08:06 AM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: The verdict had not impact on voting.

I believe all sides agree it was a book keeping error, and did not move the needle on anyone voting for or against DJT.

It is a momentary label his opponents get to slap on him for the election, which was the point of everything, along with keeping him from being able to campaign.

The nation sees it. The news day should be overflowing with the TDS crowd reveling in the guilty verdicts.

No, only one side claims it was a innocent error.  The other side knows it was a deliberate attempt to cook the books which by the way was the same crime he was found liable for in the NY State civil fraud trial that will cost him 1/2 billion dollars.

He's been doing stuff like this his entire life.

I'm sad not elated.  I'm sad that so many in our country are unable or unwilling to see him for the fraud and con that he is.  I'm sad that a man who swore to uphold the constitution decided he didn't have to

[Arturo Bandini]

I might lose my memory but I never seen anyone who is outraged right now posting something to defend Michael Cohen when he went to jail for the exact same thing ?

Why suddenly if the man who asked him to do it got the same, it should be outraging ?

[Arturo Bandini]

(05-31-2024, 08:38 AM)pally Wrote: No, only one side claims it was a innocent error.  The other side knows it was a deliberate attempt to cook the books which by the way was the same crime he was found liable for in the NY State civil fraud trial that will cost him 1/2 billion dollars.

He's been doing stuff like this his entire life.

I'm sad not elated.  I'm sad that so many in our country are unable or unwilling to see him for the fraud and con that he is.  I'm sad that a man who swore to uphold the constitution decided he didn't have to

They absolutely know who he is but they would acknowledge the fact that they had been fooled and cheated during at least 8 years and they are not ready to do it. 

It takes some character strenght to realize that you have been fooled and some people don't have it. 

[Belsnickel]

(05-31-2024, 08:42 AM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: I might lose my memory but I never seen anyone who is outraged right now posting something to defend Michael Cohen when he went to jail for the exact same thing ?

Why suddenly if the man who asked him to do it got the same, it should be outraging ?

See, you're missing the key component, though. Cohen turned his back on Trump, so it is justice when Cohen was imprisoned for this.

[Dill]

(05-31-2024, 08:31 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I believe all sides agree it was a book keeping error, and did not move the needle on anyone voting for or against DJT.
This is a pretty naive take. 

Boy howdy. Someone wasn't following the evidence or legal arguments.

(05-31-2024, 08:31 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I believe all sides agree it was a book keeping error, and did not move the needle on anyone voting for or against DJT.
This is a pretty naive take. The polling we have seen shows that, yes, 75-80% of voters will not change their positions on Trump based on this. However, in a race this close, that 20-25% on the margins will make a difference. Will they be swayed? Uncertain at this point. We will see what comes out in the next few weeks. Right now the right wing media and the Trump campaign are playing defense by making the claims that are the basis for what you say here. It's their job to say these things, so I don't begrudge them, but it also isn't necessarily reality.

We're going to see a lot of that going forward--interpretations of the trial that dismiss evidence and law, but line up with
Kilmeade or Hannity's daytime radio guests. There's a great deal of anxiety in those venues because of earlier polls showing that
a fraction of Trump voters claim a felony conviction would keep them home on election day. E.g.,
https://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/most-americans-wouldn-t-vote-for-trump-if-he-s-convicted-of-a-felony-poll-202245189959

I'm also interested in what happens to the jurors, and will be very surprised if MAGA faithful are not working to dox them right now.
If the names come out, then FoxMax commentators will comb their backgrounds Trump-style, in search of "bias." ("Juror 10 had a 'Mexican'
surname! Juror 12's husband donated to the Biden campaign!") Intimidating election workers has had a negative effect on volunteers 
and on confidence in election integrity; intimidating jurors will likely have a similar effect on legal process, at least in MAGA cases.

[CKwi88]

(05-31-2024, 08:33 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: So, I guess my question for those that think this will get overturned on appeal is what, specifically, do you think allows for this verdict to be vacated? What part or parts of the trial process opened the door for this possibility?

They don't know. Nobody on this board is qualified to opine on it. It's just parroting of partisan talking points about how this is "such a slam dunk appeal". 

[Belsnickel]

(05-31-2024, 10:10 AM)CKwi88 Wrote: They don't know. Nobody on this board is qualified to opine on it. It's just parroting of partisan talking points about how this is "such a slam dunk appeal". 

I mean, I am genuinely curious what they think. I know where my leverage points would be based on what I have read and heard. I just wonder what others are thinking.

Also, it would be interesting if this conviction is vacated to see whether Bragg brings the case again. Appellate courts aren't just going to say "not guilty." The DA has the chance to re-try the case.

[GMDino]

(05-31-2024, 10:13 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I mean, I am genuinely curious what they think. I know where my leverage points would be based on what I have read and heard. I just wonder what others are thinking.

Also, it would be interesting if this conviction is vacated to see whether Bragg brings the case again. Appellate courts aren't just going to say "not guilty." The DA has the chance to re-try the case.

If that happens I'm selling "DOUBLE JEOPARDY" shirts on line to every MAGA person I know.