8 homicides in 1 day.

[*Nately120*]

(09-10-2015, 12:24 AM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: I'm all for shutting down those websites.  That would be fine with me, as I don't consider them legitimate sellers and disagree with the loophole they are taking advantage of.

From my vantage point, many people on the gun control side of things want to assume that every person is a murderous scumbag and make them earn a right to purchase a gun. 

I find that a rather strange premise.  

What?  Why shut down those websites?  The criminals are just going to find another way to get guns, right?  And I think people on the gun control side of things (I can't speak for all of them) just want to make buying a gun a bit more complicated than buying a donut.  So where does your rationale stop?  Kids should be allowed to carry guns to school because the law that says you have to be 18 to get a CC permit won't stop a maniacal 10 year old from bringing a gun to school so why disarm the good kids?

Look, my whole stance is that guns don't kill people, they just make it a lot easier...but there has to be a better answer than just throwing your hands and saying "It's impossible...give up!"

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-10-2015, 12:20 AM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: That pretty much sums it up. 

Every proposed gun law I've heard is pure nonsense.  

So we can't do anything to control weapons in America.

But, we can control weapons in Iran.

Got it.

[jakefromstatefarm]

(09-10-2015, 12:38 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: So we can't do anything to control weapons in America.

But, we can control weapons in Iran.

Got it.

What does this have to do with the price of rice?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-10-2015, 12:41 AM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: What does this have to do with the price of rice?

I'm just a little perplexed at how we can't control weapons in Country X, but we can control weapons in Country Y.

[Benton]

I haven't read most of this thread. Unfortunately, here lately my time in PnR has mostly been spent perusing insults and talking to the offenders/deleting things that cross the line.

But, just to toss in two cents, every legal gun dealer, LEO and gun owner I know is in favor of strengthened background checks. They are the best way to toss out those who don't have any business owning one. If we had any sort of consistent front on mental health screenings, those two things would go cut down on a lot of gun violence.

Nobody is going to do that, though. It's too easy to use it to drum up votes.

[jakefromstatefarm]

(09-10-2015, 12:36 AM)Nately120 Wrote: What?  Why shut down those websites?  The criminals are just going to find another way to get guns, right?  And I think people on the gun control side of things (I can't speak for all of them) just want to make buying a gun a bit more complicated than buying a donut.  So where does your rationale stop?  Kids should be allowed to carry guns to school because the law that says you have to be 18 to get a CC permit won't stop a maniacal 10 year old from bringing a gun to school so why disarm the good kids?

Look, my whole stance is that guns don't kill people, they just make it a lot easier...but there has to be a better answer than just throwing your hands and saying "It's impossible...give up!"

Then don't shut them down.  I don't really care.

I don't understand what you want here.

I've simply asked what "common sense" gun laws are and what should be passed, and instead all I've got is the usual rhetoric and nonsense.

If you have a proposal, offer it up.  Stop trying to ask me what my positions are and then attacking what I say, as I said that they are all useless and stand by it. 

[jakefromstatefarm]

(09-10-2015, 12:44 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I'm just a little perplexed at how we can't control weapons in Country X, but we can control weapons in Country Y.

Because country Y has a 2nd amendment???  

[jakefromstatefarm]

(09-10-2015, 12:45 AM)Benton Wrote: I haven't read most of this thread. Unfortunately, here lately my time in PnR has mostly been spent perusing insults and talking to the offenders/deleting things that cross the line.

But, just to toss in two cents, every legal gun dealer, LEO and gun owner I know is in favor of strengthened background checks. They are the best way to toss out those who don't have any business owning one. If we had any sort of consistent front on mental health screenings, those two things would go cut down on a lot of gun violence.

Nobody is going to do that, though. It's too easy to use it to drum up votes.

We must know different LEOs, because everyone that I know (that's a lot) believes that gun laws are largely stupid. 

[*Nately120*]

(09-10-2015, 12:45 AM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: Then don't shut them down.  I don't really care.

I don't understand what you want here.

I've simply asked what "common sense" gun laws are and what should be passed, and instead all I've got is the usual rhetoric and nonsense.

If you have a proposal, offer it up.  Stop trying to ask me what my positions are and then attacking what I say, as I said that they are all useless and stand by it. 

You just seem to want to believe gun control is absolutely pointless, and I'm not really one to argue with a man's chosen view of reality. The fact that you would further conclude gun control is worthless because someone on a Bengals message board won't provide you with a fool-proof solution makes it pretty clear.

I don't have a simple answer for gun control and the issues Americans have with gun violence, but I'm not also going to assume there is no answer.  Actually, there is evidence out there that gun control is effective and has had a positive impact, but I'd wager you've dismissed it long before we started chatting.

Your mind is made up, isn't it?

[jakefromstatefarm]

Yes, my mind is made up. There are no "common sense gun laws", because I've asked for what they are repeatedly and all I hear is nonsense and blather.

I've yet to hear a single suggested piece of legislation that would change the outcome of any of the tragedies that have taken place.

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(09-10-2015, 01:56 AM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote:  

I've yet to hear a single suggested piece of legislation that would change the outcome of any of the tragedies that have taken place.

Granted, obviously no legislation changed any of the outcomes of the tragedies that have occurred.  Nor will they ever prevent all tragedies from happening.  However that does not mean they never have or never will.  And even if it doesn't prevent the actual crime itself, things like registering and licensing a lot of times help bring the criminal to justice.  And I'm all for mental health/criminal background checks and closing loop holes for things like buying at gun shows with no background checks and things of that nature.  To me that is common sense.  Sure it's not going to stop all gun violence, but it may prevent some and/or bring criminals to justice.  Got to have laws and regulations on the matter.

[*Nately120*]

(09-10-2015, 01:56 AM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: Yes, my mind is made up.  There are no "common sense gun laws", because I've asked for what they are repeatedly and all I hear is nonsense and blather.  

I've yet to hear a single suggested piece of legislation that would change the outcome of any of the tragedies that have taken place.

You really think the world is completely devoid of any compelling argument that gun control laws aren't a complete waste of time or are you simply looking for people on the Bengals' message board to fill you in?  Honest question.

[mallorian69]

So you lefties want to make people spend both time and money to exercise their right to defend themselves but yet all of you complain that voter ID laws force people to spend time and money to exercise their right to vote?

Wouldn't forcing background/mental health checks as well as mandatory training and licensing, all of which are more costly and time consuming than getting an ID, be discriminating against the poor and minorities? I mean come on, if some poor old black lady can't afford to take the bus to get a free ID to vote how the heck is she going to pay for her training? As it stands right now the cheapest place I have found in Ohio for CHL class is $60 per person. A background check which must be done when you apply for your CHL is $65. So if granny cant afford $2 for bus fare, how is she going to afford $125?

I guess it doesn't matter to you lefties if she gets killed because she can't defend herself as long as afterwards she still votes for your candidates.

[jakefromstatefarm]

(09-10-2015, 02:18 AM)Nately120 Wrote: You really think the world is completely devoid of any compelling argument that gun control laws aren't a complete waste of time or are you simply looking for people on the Bengals' message board to fill you in?  Honest question.

I don't see any worthwhile solutions out there.  I hear a lot of vague silliness, like longer waiting periods and mental health screenings. 

My major issue is that none of this stuff is going to move the needle, which means that if both of those were passed, we'd still have the same "problem".  I quoted the world "problem" because if you take away most of the large inner-cities of the US, we're about as safe as you could possibly get.  Gang violence, turf wars, and idiotic thugs account for a very large portion of the gun violence in this country. 

This means that when this "gun control" doesn't work....which it won't, certain people in government and the media will continue pushing the narrative asking for more.  That won't work either of course, so the fight will continue on, until one day when they get enough idiots in government and SCOTUS to do some real damage. 

[StLucieBengal]

(09-09-2015, 02:54 PM)GodHatesBengals Wrote: Sure you're in favor of that? Committing people costs money. Government money.

Agreed. That's the dilemma.

However I am small governemnt. Not zero government.

One way or another something needs to be done.

[jakefromstatefarm]

(09-10-2015, 08:24 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: One way or another something needs to be done.

Why?  Don't get involved in any drug turf wars or gang violence and your chances of getting killed by a gun are about the same as winning the Power Ball. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-10-2015, 12:51 AM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: Because country Y has a 2nd amendment???  

How does that help us control the illegal weapons in Iran?  If you can't control the illegal weapons in your own country, you sure as hell aren't controlling the illegal weapons in a country in another hemisphere.

I don't understand how you can piss and moan so much over the Iran nuclear deal when you don't believe there is a single thing which can be done to control illegal weapons in this country.  Not a single thing.  In our own country.  With our own citizens.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-10-2015, 12:24 AM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: I'm all for shutting down those websites.  That would be fine with me, as I don't consider them legitimate sellers and disagree with the loophole they are taking advantage of.

From my vantage point, many people on the gun control side of things want to assume that every person is a murderous scumbag and make them earn a right to purchase a gun. 

I find that a rather strange premise.  

I own guns.  I hunt.  I'm prior military.  I don't assume every person is a murderous scumbag.  If a person is a law abiding citizen free of mental illness and no other red flags there is nothing they need to worry about when it comes to gun control.  It is a strange premise because it isn't correct at all.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-10-2015, 12:45 AM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: Then don't shut them down.  I don't really care.

I don't understand what you want here.

I've simply asked what "common sense" gun laws are and what should be passed, and instead all I've got is the usual rhetoric and nonsense.

If you have a proposal, offer it up.  Stop trying to ask me what my positions are and then attacking what I say, as I said that they are all useless and stand by it. 

What is so damn awful about a mandatory back ground check?  Or a gun safety course?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-10-2015, 08:06 AM)mallorian69 Wrote: So you lefties want to make people spend both time and money to exercise their right to defend themselves but yet all of you complain that voter ID laws force people to spend time and money to exercise their right to vote?

Wouldn't forcing background/mental health checks as well as mandatory training and licensing, all of which are more costly and time consuming than getting an ID, be discriminating against the poor and minorities? I mean come on, if some poor old black lady can't afford to take the bus to get a free ID to vote how the heck is she going to pay for her training? As it stands right now the cheapest place I have found in Ohio for CHL class is $60 per person. A background check which must be done when you apply for your CHL is $65. So if granny cant afford $2 for bus fare, how is she going to afford $125?

I guess it doesn't matter to you lefties if she gets killed because she can't defend herself as long as afterwards she still votes for your candidates.

Once more; I own guns, I hunt, prior infantryman, Ranger Regiment, RTB.  I'm in favor of gun control.  Does that make me a lefty?  Just stop with the bullshit.