82 shot, 14 fatalities, over the 4th of July weekend

[fredtoast]

(02-03-2016, 02:04 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Because I have been told repeatedly that White People have all the power. Why would they not want white folks assistance in this struggle?


But, yeah I better stop before you sink my Battleship. 

So let me get this straight.

You criticize the blacks for not taking care of their own problems, but you think the best way for them to take care of their own problems is to ask white people for help.

And this come from the same guy who in this very same thread said that giving help to black people just makes them more dependent?

This is a classic.

If they don't ask white people for help then they don't care about the problem, but white people should not help them because that just makes them more weak and dependent.  So basically no matter what they do they arec wrong.

[*bfine32*]

(02-03-2016, 02:06 AM)fredtoast Wrote: That is a huge failure.  Put one in jail and another takes his place on the street.  It does nothing to reduce the amount of drugs on the streets or violent crime related to drug trafficking, but it does raise all of our taxes to build and staff more prisons.

Unless the sentence is a little more severe. 

If executing one drug trafficker could save the lives of many ancillary citizens, would you be in favor of it?  

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(02-03-2016, 01:58 AM)bfine32 Wrote: It is just the same mentality that Pro-choice folks will employ when they suggest: We can't outlaw abortions because then folks will just break the law.

Not even remotely as many anti-choice people are also anti-birth control.  Self defeating is stupid no matter what concept you apply it to.

Quote:I would look for other ways to combat the illegal drug trade besides legalizing it. Perhaps increasing the sentences for offenses. 

Yes, that has worked extremely well thus far.  Epic eyeroll incoming.

Quote:Everything comes with a consequence. I read where we cracked down on the border to stop the trafficking of illegal drugs across the border. So what did criminals do? Started growing the drugs here. 

And you unwittingly prove my point, as long as the appetite exists someone will satisfy it.  Remove the black market and you remove much of the ancillary crime associated with it.

[fredtoast]

(02-03-2016, 02:08 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Solid points but the basic mentality (which I pointed to, instead of effect which you talked about) is the same: Make it legal, because it being illegal causes problems. 

No.  It is not the same mentality at all.  People are not Pro-choice because of any collateral problems.  People are Pro-choice because they believe in a woman's individual rights.

If you were just talking about the crime of using or selling drugs then you might have a point.  People are going to use drugs and get abortions even if they are illegal, but that was not the point at all.  We were talking about violent assaults, robberies, and murders that are totally separate from the crime of selling or possessing drugs.

[fredtoast]

(02-03-2016, 02:10 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Unless the sentence is a little more severe. 

If executing one drug trafficker could save the lives of many ancillary citizens, would you be in favor of it?  

How could this make any difference when drug dealers are giving up their lives on the streets every single day?  If the threat of death was a deterrent then no one would be willing to get killed in order to deal drugs.

You should reallyh pause and think before you write stuff like this.

[*bfine32*]

(02-03-2016, 02:10 AM)fredtoast Wrote: So let me get this straight.

You criticize the blacks for not taking care of their own problems, but you think the best way for them to take care of their own problems is to ask white people for help.

And this come from the same guy who in this very same thread said that giving help to black people just makes them more dependent?

This is a classic.

If they don't ask white people for help then they don't care about the problem, but white people should not help them because that just makes them more weak and dependent.  So basically no matter what they do they arec wrong.

I criticized movements (funded by the likes of George Soros) for making Leo on black crime more public than Black on Black crime and your retort was they are doing it quietly. 

Where did i say they should ask white people for help? They should make the plight more public and the high profile faces paid to stir the division flames should focus on the real issue.

Of course white people should get this message,  so should people of every color; I'm not about trying to divide. 

[*bfine32*]

(02-03-2016, 02:18 AM)fredtoast Wrote: How could this make any difference when drug dealers are giving up their lives on the streets every single day?  If the threat of death was a deterrent then no one would be willing to get killed in order to deal drugs.

You should reallyh pause and think before you write stuff like this.

So you don't think Capital punishment could be a deterrent for drug trafficking because they are already killing each other?

Brilliant!! I should pause and think more. 

[*bfine32*]

(02-03-2016, 02:15 AM)fredtoast Wrote: No.  It is not the same mentality at all.  People are not Pro-choice because of any collateral problems.  People are Pro-choice because they believe in a woman's individual rights.

If you were just talking about the crime of using or selling drugs then you might have a point.  People are going to use drugs and get abortions even if they are illegal, but that was not the point at all.  We were talking about violent assaults, robberies, and murders that are totally separate from the crime of selling or possessing drugs.

I spoke to the mentality, you are still talking about the effect.

I'm sorry this point is lost on you. 

[GMDino]

(02-03-2016, 12:57 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Nothing you have posted refutes my post that BLM would quickly protest the killing of 1 black youth by a LEO, but 51 are killed in one month and nothing. The target has remained stationary and the meaning has not changed.

But focus on trying to find ways that I am wrong instead of worrying about the issue. Blacks are killing blacks at an alarming rate and nobody gives a damn; least of all BLM. 

I could easily link articles to "support" this stance, but most are bright enough to know this is true without them. 

Everything I posted did.  Thanks for trying to get to the original "point" you were trying to make?

(02-03-2016, 01:49 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I see you went to the Dino school of link quoting. 

Just imagine if groups such as BLM and mouth pieces such as Al Sharpton made such things as public as they do those murders that cross race-lines.

But enough about me.

(02-03-2016, 01:58 AM)bfine32 Wrote: It is just the same mentality that Pro-choice folks will employ when they suggest: We can't outlaw abortions because then folks will just break the law.

I would look for other ways to combat the illegal drug trade besides legalizing it. Perhaps increasing the sentences for offenses. 

Everything comes with a consequence. I read where we cracked down on the border to stop the trafficking of illegal drugs across the border. So what did criminals do? Started growing the drugs here. 

Cripes now we're talking about abortions?  Did the talking points cars get shuffled?

(02-03-2016, 02:04 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Because I have been told repeatedly that White People have all the power. Why would they not want white folks assistance in this struggle?


But, yeah I better stop before you sink my Battleship. 

(02-03-2016, 02:20 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I criticized movements (funded by the likes of George Soros) for making Leo on black crime more public than Black on Black crime and your retort was they are doing it quietly. 

Where did i say they should ask white people for help? They should make the plight more public and the high profile faces paid to stir the division flames should focus on the real issue.

Of course white people should get this message,  so should people of every color; I'm not about trying to divide. 

(02-03-2016, 02:28 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I spoke to the mentality, you are still talking about the effect.

I'm sorry this point is lost on you. 

I'll try one more time since I had a good nights sleep while you were spinning...

In fact I'll use the Bfine Method™  of bringing a new subjects in to make a point.  

The people who run and are involved in Special Olympics?  You know what that is I presume?  How often do you see them out promoting the Olympic games?  How often are they interviewed on television to discuss doping in the Olympics?

They have a role that they fit into.

The KKK?  I know you are familiar with them...they focus on how white people are the better race and how minorities are destroying this country.  Do you see them protesting white on white violence?  Or have they gone to black leaders to discuss ways to make things better?

They have a role they chose to fit into.

Where I work our company belongs to a world wide organization that fights for laws and rules that help people within our industry.  Most of the time I find them boorish and the only real reason to be in the group is to maintain contact with customers and suppliers.

I have yet to see them take up the black on black violence issue or, really, any issue outside of our industry.

The fill a particular role.

BLM has chosen to focus on police vs black violence.  You don't have to agree at all or even a little bit with that.  

But that is the role they choose.

So when you try to pigeon hole one group (BLM) for not doing something that YOU want them to because they do something YOU do not think they should...you are...wait for it...








Feel free to say BLM is wrong as most say the KKK is wrong for what they promote. That discussion is viable.


However by opening that particular can of worms you were also shown that black on black crime  IS an issue that MANY within the black community have protested and continue to work on.

Which makes you....



And when you bring up that you think the President should say something...and suggest that he doesn't or not quickly enough for YOUR liking...and again there are multiple places to find where he did that makes you, well, you know...



You remind me of a good friend who posted on Facebook the second President Obama finished his swearing in ceremony that Obama hadn't solved all the problems yet like he promised he would.     He was so full of sour grapes Aesop would have had to write a new fable about him.  Whether BLM or another group is in the street fast enough for YOUR liking isn't really an issue for the rest of us.  I don't post a picture every time it rains, but I will if there is a flood, or a lightning strike.  Black on black violence (the topic your were originally talking about) *IS* an ongoing problem in this country.  Many people are trying to do something about it.  Police violence against minorities is an issue that pops up and then dies back down...so it gets the press.  Its background noise vs a sudden boom.  

And while that might get under your skin because of your personal bias or feelings about the issue it doesn't change that fact that when you post things like you have in this thread to try and downplay the work of a group because they do not do OTHER things that are important to YOU, well...I understand there is little room for pointing out what someone is doing in their posts vs the topic at hand but facts do not seem to matter to you.




And lastly, no matter how you want to spin this (and you will try) ....

[fredtoast]

(02-03-2016, 02:25 AM)bfine32 Wrote: So you don't think Capital punishment could be a deterrent for drug trafficking because they are already killing each other?

Brilliant!! I should pause and think more. 

Wow,  You actually got my point.

Good job.   

See what happens when you stop and think before you post.

[fredtoast]

(02-03-2016, 02:20 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Of course white people should get this message,  so should people of every color; I'm not about trying to divide. 

And you HAVE gotten the message.  You know all about the problem and how blacks are working in their own communities to address it.  

So ther question is "What are you going to do to help?"    Or do you think it is your duty to just bad mouth them instead of doing anything to help?

If they protest you sry.

If they don't protest you cry.

It is clear you are judging them based on something OTHER than if they protest or not.  Gee, I wonder what that could be? 

[fredtoast]

(02-03-2016, 12:57 AM)bfine32 Wrote: But focus on trying to find ways that I am wrong instead of worrying about the issue. Blacks are killing blacks at an alarming rate and nobody gives a damn; least of all BLM. 

I could easily link articles to "support" this stance, but most are bright enough to know this is true without them. 

No you could not.  There have been dozens of links posted here proving that you are wrong.  You have nothing to support your argument at all.  You are doing nothing except spewing white supremacists rhetoric and saying "I am right because I say so."

[Nebuchadnezzar]

(02-03-2016, 12:48 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: By completely eliminating the economic incentive to engage in such crime.  Most gang crime is the result of attempts at controlling areas to distribute illegal drugs.  Without illegal drugs to sell the economic incentive disappears.



Utter drek.  You can only get people to risk their lives if they have something to gain by doing so.  Eliminate the monetary incentive and that no longer exists.  Your argument presupposes a need to engage in criminal activity among the poor that does not exist.  Put simply, most poor people who engage in crime do so because they make money doing so.  Eliminate that money and you eliminate the crime.


Quite the opposite, that's exactly what they'll do.  Hard to understand, but in a capitalist society accumulating wealth becomes the primary goal.  For those denied traditional ways, or at least perceiving themselves as such, they will pursue unconventional ways to do so.  Eliminate that way and they will be forced to find another path, pure logic dictates this.  As it stands engaging in the distribution of illegal drugs is an excellent way to currently achieve this goal, albeit temporarily.  No other criminal activity, available to street level criminals, is even remotely as lucrative.

Of course, this is all assuming that all illegal drugs are legalized and we know that will never.

I guess we have to ask, why are these kids selling drugs in the first place? 

It's not just because of money although that is the number one reason someone gets into illegal activity.

I just don't see how taking a group of people's income away will force them into the workforce when there are no jobs out there.

EDIT: Maybe it's like how business changes force people somewhere else. Like how the carriage maker had to change to something else because of the automobile. That makes sense then.

[fredtoast]

(02-03-2016, 10:59 AM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: I just don't see how taking a group of people's income away will force them into the workforce when there are no jobs out there. 

This is not some theory with nothing to back it up.  we have historical proof of what happened when we repealed the prohibition of alcohol.  There was a massive reduction in crime related to the illegal sale, and the legal sale created a whole new legal industry with new jobs.

[*bfine32*]

(02-03-2016, 10:34 AM)fredtoast Wrote: It is clear you are judging them based on something OTHER than if they protest or not.  Gee, I wonder what that could be? 

I have been told that the most dangerous person is the covert racist that will yell about others being racists for no other reason that thinking all folks should be treated equal. All the while there agenda is to ensure there is a clear division among the races. 

BLM is divisive and hypocritical in its actions. There is no need to provide links despite your claims I cannot (hell used to bold feature and everything. You must have really meant that.)  I assume you have a computer and a browser. Type "BLM hypocrites" and tell me if you get any results.  

[fredtoast]

(02-03-2016, 12:11 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I have been told that the most dangerous person is the covert racist that will yell about others being racists for no other reason that thinking all folks should be treated equal. 

Well that has nothing to do with you.

You complain about what black people do no matter what.  If the protest you complain and if they don't protest you complain.  

Meanwhile you NEVER criticize white people for protesting or not protesting.

So you have no idea what it means to "treat all folks equally"

[fredtoast]

(02-03-2016, 12:11 PM)bfine32 Wrote: BLM is divisive and hypocritical in its actions. There is no need to provide links despite your claims I cannot (hell used to bold feature and everything. You must have really meant that.)  I assume you have a computer and a browser. Type "BLM hypocrites" and tell me if you get any results.  

Yes there is.

The fact is that if I do the search you suggest all I find is lionks to people like you who are ignorant or tell blatent lies about black people not doing anything about or even caring about blac-on-black violence.

And I can also find links to people who claim that baking soda can cure cancer and that aliens are coming to kill all humans on earth.


The fact that you feel you can just say "I am right because I say so." is comical.

[*bfine32*]

(02-03-2016, 12:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Well that has nothing to do with you.

You complain about what black people do no matter what.  If the protest you complain and if they don't protest you complain.  

Meanwhile you NEVER criticize white people for protesting or not protesting.

So you have no idea what it means to "treat all folks equally"

It is actually the slave owners I dislike. 

Criticize white folk all the time. Called the Oregon occupiers criminals when many were calling them Patriots. I just don't need to always point it out to keep the light off me. 

I know full well what it means to treat all folks equally. All lives matter. Do you agree? 

[GMDino]

(02-03-2016, 12:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It is actually the slave owners I dislike. 

Criticize white folk all the time. Called the Oregon occupiers criminals when many were calling them Patriots. I just don't need to always point it out to keep the light off me. 

I know full well what it means to treat all folks equally. All lives matter. Do you agree? 

Absolutely!

Black lives matter too.

[fredtoast]

(02-03-2016, 12:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I know full well what it means to treat all folks equally. All lives matter. Do you agree? 

Yes, I agree that all lives matter, do you?

If so then why are you so upset that black people are out there trying to end violence?  And why are you not out protesting for the end of violence among white people.

Seems to me that you don't care enough about violent crime to do anything about it yourself, but maybe that is just because you are too busy cryinmg about the people who are actually out there trying to stop it.