A good problem to have

[SunsetBengal]

With so many of our posts and articles shared in this forum being of the negative variety, it was nice to see a news article showing that there are areas of the US more good paying jobs than people to work them.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/in-this-part-of-the-midwest-the-problem-isn%E2%80%99t-china-it%E2%80%99s-too-many-jobs/ar-BBCY3Aw?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp

[SunsetBengal]

Yeah, not enough polarizing political rhetoric in that piece to stir much conversation in here. But you might have noticed that this is occurring in overwhelmingly conservative Indiana. Which is sort of ironic, as their Left leaning neighbor, Illinois, is broker than a Banana Republic, and on the verge of bankruptcy.

[Au165]

My wife has worked in HR and in turn recruiting and she has told me they struggle to fill positions often. These jobs range from hourly $10-$15 an hr jobs up to high paying salaried jobs. I think there are definitely areas where there aren't enough jobs, but there are plenty where they can't find people to take them.

[GMDino]

(06-21-2017, 11:01 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yeah, not enough polarizing political rhetoric in that piece to stir much conversation in here.  But you might have noticed that this is occurring in overwhelmingly conservative Indiana.  Which is sort of ironic, as their Left leaning neighbor, Illinois, is broker than a Banana Republic, and on the verge of bankruptcy.

I'm sure there are jobs that can't be filled in places.  Unemployment is very low.  It should be a market where employers need to offer more to get new employees.

[CKwi88]

It's a shame we didn't have a presidential candidate who wanted to dedicate billions of dollars towards STEM education and plans to streamline the process to acquire the skills necessary to fill these jobs.

Maybe after Donny Boy hammers out the travel ban, a wall on the USA Mexico border, restores coal to all it's former glory, and gets done stripping healthcare from millions of people, he'll get around to it.








Maybe that will be enough polarizing political rhetoric to get the attention you're looking for. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

I was wondering if the unfilled jobs are so good, why can't they lure workers away from other jobs?

There are over 600 Carrier employees in Indianapolis who are or will be layed off since the plant is still moving to Mexico.

[Belsnickel]

(06-21-2017, 11:01 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yeah, not enough polarizing political rhetoric in that piece to stir much conversation in here. But you might have noticed that this is occurring in overwhelmingly conservative Indiana. Which is sort of ironic, as their Left leaning neighbor, Illinois, is broker than a Banana Republic, and on the verge of bankruptcy.

Seems to me that it has more to do with the location of natural gas/oil or the type of product being manufactured than public policy.

[Au165]

(06-21-2017, 11:27 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I was wondering if the unfilled jobs are so good, why can't they lure workers away from other jobs?

There are over 600 Carrier employees in Indianapolis who are or will be layed off since the plant is still moving to Mexico.

If there are 100 job openings and you take them from other companies, there are still 100 jobs open simply at another company, unless those jobs aren't back filled of course. In a lot of cases the issue is finding people qualified to do them, and that doesn't even mean skills needed for the job, it can be those with a drivers license, no felonies, can pass drug test, or is willing to work the schedule required.

In your carrier example, with 600 people now looking for work in that area there will be a surplus of workers to fill unfilled jobs. The problem is people don't necessarily want to move to where the jobs are, and frankly some can't for the amount of pay their skill set will garner them even if they move. This is where you get in trouble and why some areas lack jobs, especially "unskilled", while others have surpluses of them.

[SunsetBengal]

(06-21-2017, 11:16 AM)CKwi88 Wrote: It's a shame we didn't have a presidential candidate who wanted to dedicate billions of dollars towards STEM education and plans to streamline the process to acquire the skills necessary to fill these jobs.

Maybe after Donny Boy hammers out the travel ban, a wall on the USA Mexico border, restores coal to all it's former glory, and gets done stripping healthcare from millions of people, he'll get around to it.








Maybe that will be enough polarizing political rhetoric to get the attention you're looking for. 

But these manufacturing jobs don't really require vast knowledge, just decent vocational training.

[*michaelsean*]

(06-21-2017, 11:16 AM)CKwi88 Wrote: It's a shame we didn't have a presidential candidate who wanted to dedicate billions of dollars towards STEM education and plans to streamline the process to acquire the skills necessary to fill these jobs.

Maybe after Donny Boy hammers out the travel ban, a wall on the USA Mexico border, restores coal to all it's former glory, and gets done stripping healthcare from millions of people, he'll get around to it.








Maybe that will be enough polarizing political rhetoric to get the attention you're looking for. 

The company is actually paying for people to go to school to become machinists.  

[GMDino]

(06-21-2017, 11:35 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: But these manufacturing jobs don't really require vast knowledge, just decent vocational training.

I'm a big fan of vocational training.  Our daughter went for cosmetology.  Save a good chunk of money by getting her license in high school and was working in her field before she graduated.

Her fiance got his training with the National Guard.  He's working now and will have his CDL soon.  

Tried to talk our son into the tech also (electrical engineering) but he's like I was and is insisting on going to college. 

[*michaelsean*]

(06-21-2017, 11:40 AM)GMDino Wrote: I'm a big fan of vocational training.  Our daughter went for cosmetology.  Save a good chunk of money by getting her license in high school and was working in her field before she graduated.

Her fiance got his training with the National Guard.  He's working now and will have his CDL soon.  

Tried to talk our son into the tech also (electrical engineering) but he's like I was and is insisting on going to college. 

4 years of drunken orgies?  Hell yeah!

[GMDino]

(06-21-2017, 11:42 AM)michaelsean Wrote: 4 years of drunken orgies?  Hell yeah!

Er, no. 

I had no skills.  None.  I was a book learning nerd who can't hammer a nail straight.  Plus growing up in a small town and going exclusively to Catholic school it was good to expand my worldview.  And even though it was a Catholic college I met many people from different faiths and different backgrounds.  Not everyone was a white kid whose parents were still married and went to church every Sunday.

Our son will be attending the local campus and living at home.  But he's not much of a socializer anyway.

[SunsetBengal]

(06-21-2017, 11:40 AM)michaelsean Wrote: The company is actually paying for people to go to school to become machinists.  

Those are great jobs to have, they are manufacturers of orthopedic devices.  Machinists get paid, too.  Back in my college days, I worked in a CNC shop for a Summer.  Pay was around 11.50/hr., minimum wage was 3.85 at the time.  Looking back, I should have stayed on there, guys with seniority were making 20-25/hr., and this was over 25 years ago.

[SunsetBengal]

(06-21-2017, 11:33 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Seems to me that it has more to do with the location of natural gas/oil or the type of product being manufactured than public policy.

Hmm, I don't know.  Seems like policy might have a hand in making Indiana one of the more business friendly States.

http://www.launchpad-class.org/profiles/in.htm

Quote:Indiana offers a range of different credits that could be advantageous to your business. One of these is a flat corporate tax rate. This means that all corporations pay the same rate, and this is a great incentive for large companies. In Indiana, you will not have to pay an inventory tax either. Indiana has also recently lowered some of its tax rates, and they will continue to do so over the next few years.

The state of Indiana will also reward you if your company creates new jobs and invests money in this state. There are grants available for training of employees, as well as many other types of grants your company may be eligible for. One of the programs designed to benefit companies that create new jobs is called the Hoosier Business Investment Tax Credit. To qualify, you will have to meet certain conditions, and these involve the type of business you are starting, the amount of money you are investing, and the number of jobs it will create.
If a business relocates to Indiana, the business may be entitled to a tax credit called the Headquarters Relocation Tax Credit, HRTC. This credit is based on a company's gross revenues and the number of employees it has on staff.

While I've also read that neighboring Illinois ranks 48th on the business friendly list.

http://chiefexecutive.net/2017-best-worst-states-business/

Quote:48

Illinois
Starting under Gov. Bruce Rauner's administration, the Illinois Competitiveness Council is dedicating efforts to helping small businesses start, expand or stay in Illinois. The administration also is working to cut the red tape and make it easier for businesses to grow and thrive in Illinois, in part by reducing restrictions within the Illinois Code by 25%.

[Belsnickel]

(06-21-2017, 12:34 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Hmm, I don't know.  Seems like policy might have a hand in making Indiana one of the more business friendly States.

http://www.launchpad-class.org/profiles/in.htm



While I've also read that neighboring Illinois ranks 48th on the business friendly list.

http://chiefexecutive.net/2017-best-worst-states-business/

But is that correlation actually causal? We've have to compare the unemployment rates with the other business friendly states to actually come close to drawing that conclusion. Since the OP article mentioned the counties fell primarily in the midwest around natural gas areas and what not and didn't mention anything about the east coast business friendly states, I'm guessing that they didn't make that list. Sure, business friendly policies may play a role, but based on just that information it doesn't look like enough to be a causal relationship.

[SunsetBengal]

(06-21-2017, 12:45 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: But is that correlation actually causal? We've have to compare the unemployment rates with the other business friendly states to actually come close to drawing that conclusion. Since the OP article mentioned the counties fell primarily in the midwest around natural gas areas and what not and didn't mention anything about the east coast business friendly states, I'm guessing that they didn't make that list. Sure, business friendly policies may play a role, but based on just that information it doesn't look like enough to be a causal relationship.

Great points as always, you think of things that I overlook.  However, the emphasis of the article was on leading manufacturers of orthopedic products, weather or not natural gas is present in the vicinity seems immaterial.  I would think that tax climate and quality of workforce would be larger determining factors in these companies locating in Indiana than the presence of a geological resource.  I could be wrong, but that just makes more sense, to me.

[Belsnickel]

(06-21-2017, 12:53 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Great points as always, you think of things that I overlook.  However, the emphasis of the article was on leading manufacturers of orthopedic products, weather or not natural gas is present in the vicinity seems immaterial.  I would think that tax climate and quality of workforce would be larger determining factors in these companies locating in Indiana than the presence of a geological resource.  I could be wrong, but that just makes more sense, to me.

The article brought up the natural gas issue.

Quote:Kosciusko is only one of 73 counties in the United States with unemployment rates of 2 percent or lower, according to the most recent data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Many are in ­energy-rich counties in the Midwest and Colorado, where the fracking and natural gas booms have vacuumed up the workforce.

Reading this again, the article did say many, not most. So, not knowing which report they looked at I went to the annual average for 2016 found here: https://www.bls.gov/lau/#cntyaa

Sorting by the unemployment rate and looking at the top 100, only one state of those top ten business friendly states from your article has any counties represented in the list (Texas with 4). Now, this is very simplified and not a good representative sample as there are 32,219 counties in total on their list, but even with that we should have seen a higher representation than 4 counties out of the top 100 from the top ten business friendly states. The Dakotas had many represented on the list and they both rank in the 20s.

So again, seems to be to not be enough evidence to show a causal relationship. Location has a lot to do with these things. Proximity to resources, infrastructure, etc. Also keeping in mind that some states and localities implement more business friendly policy in an attempt to compensate for areas they may lack in. So a locality with a poor infrastructure may offer more incentives to lure businesses in despite that failing. Whether this helps to improve their infrastructure in the long run or causes a "race to the bottom" can be hit and miss with these policies.

[*michaelsean*]

Oh crap Matt pulled out one of his online tomes.

[Belsnickel]

(06-21-2017, 01:22 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Oh crap Matt pulled out one of his online tomes.

I am currently writing a policy memo, so I am in wonk mode.