ACHA Passed the house

[GMDino]

Congrats President Trump!

You really looked out for the little guy!

[Belsnickel]

I wonder how many people will end up being priced out of the ability to buy insurance that voted for Trump if this trainwreck were to pass the Senate.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

I'm not saying that this will be any better than the ACA, but lets not pretend the ACA was great. Everyone I know (middle and lower-middle class) ended up paying more because of it/couldn't afford to use their health insurance anymore, and the ACA wasn't working out financially anyway. (Not that I know this new thing will be able to, either.)

What I am saying is, we likely just traded a turd sandwich for a poopsicle.

[GMDino]

(05-04-2017, 05:21 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I wonder how many people will end up being priced out of the ability to buy insurance that voted for Trump if this trainwreck were to pass the Senate.

They didn't want it anyway...right?  Obama forced them to have insurance.

[Belsnickel]

(05-04-2017, 05:23 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I'm not saying that this will be any better than the ACA, but lets not pretend the ACA was great. Everyone I know (middle and lower-middle class) ended up paying more because of it/couldn't afford to use their health insurance anymore, and the ACA wasn't working out financially anyway. (Not that I know this new thing will be able to, either.)

What I am saying is, we likely just traded a turd sandwich for a poopsicle.

The ACA was the most conservative option to increase the number of people with access to health care. It was a scheme thought up by the Heritage Foundation decades ago. The GOP was pissed about it because Obama made it happen. Any option that is thought up that moves health care to a more conservative model is going to result in fewer people with access to health care. Period.

If we want to fix the system, and we should, we need to make it so people can actually afford health care, not make it worse for them.

[fredtoast]

(05-04-2017, 05:23 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Everyone I know (middle and lower-middle class) ended up paying more because of it/couldn't afford to use their health insurance anymore,

1.  Anecdotal evidence is meaningless.  You have to look at the entire country instead of just a bhandful of your friends.

2.  A lot of people have claimed health care went up because of the ACA when the ACA was not the cause at all.  They have no clue what they are talking about, but blame Obama for everything. 

[BmorePat87]

The Democrats were singing Steam's Na Na Hey Hey Goodbye while the Republicans were rolling in cases of bud light until sheets.

I wish this was from the Onion but it's not.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(05-04-2017, 05:28 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: The ACA was the most conservative option to increase the number of people with access to health care. It was a scheme thought up by the Heritage Foundation decades ago. The GOP was pissed about it because Obama made it happen. Any option that is thought up that moves health care to a more conservative model is going to result in fewer people with access to health care. Period.

If we want to fix the system, and we should, we need to make it so people can actually afford health care, not make it worse for them.

Increase the number of people with access to health care by burdening everyone else who couldn't afford it. That's why so many young healthy people opted out of the ACA and the ACA promptly went into financial troubles. Young people are generally poor and healthy. Neither of those equate to wanting to pay the burden for other people.

I don't care who thought up the scheme. I don't care about liberals/conservatives and who put it into play. It's forcing a majority of people to purchase something they didn't want/didn't need/had already at a more affordable price in order to help a minority of people.

(05-04-2017, 05:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 1.  Anecdotal evidence is meaningless.  You have to look at the entire country instead of just a bhandful of your friends.

2.  A lot of people have claimed health care went up because of the ACA when the ACA was not the cause at all.  They have no clue what they are talking about, but blame Obama for everything. 

Except when a parent can't afford the copay anymore after decades of being able to because their employer could no longer afford the same coverage as it had in the past.

Or when multiple friends lose hours on their jobs so they are under the healthcare requirement threshold, and on top of that then have to pay money into a program they neither want nor need.

I know you live in a world where you think the rich people are paying for poor people, but it's the middle/lower middle class who end up with the burden. People shouldn't be burdened with paying for other people's decisions. It's not their fault that someone else decided to live off a diet of Pepsi and candy and got diabetes. It's not their fault that they were responsible and used contraceptives while other people pump out two or three children they can't afford.

That's how we got to a point where my generation is going to get screwed by having to pay into a Social Security system that they will never see the benefits for.

[Au165]

(05-04-2017, 05:21 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I wonder how many people will end up being priced out of the ability to buy insurance that voted for Trump if this trainwreck were to pass the Senate.

This is the irony of it all really. The ACA capped health care costs at 3:1 for older people compared to younger, but under the new law it moves to 5:1. So the older Republican base who voted for Trump may actually not be able to afford healthcare now. Also because of the long list of pre existing conditions for what you may be denied over you probably won't be able to be covered anyways as you age.

[fredtoast]

(05-04-2017, 05:51 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Increase the number of people with access to health care by burdening everyone else who couldn't afford it. That's why so many young healthy people opted out of the ACA and the ACA promptly went into financial troubles. Young people are generally poor and healthy. Neither of those equate to wanting to pay the burden for other people.

I don't care who thought up the scheme. I don't care about liberals/conservatives and who put it into play. It's forcing a majority of people to purchase something they didn't want/didn't need/had already at a more affordable price in order to help a minority of people.

Young heal;thy people need insurance just as much as other people.  They still get injured and sick like older people.  Except instead of paying for insurance they go to hospitals that have to treat them and we all end up paying for their medical problems.

People who believe that young people don't need health insurance are a big part of the reason health care is so expensive.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-04-2017, 05:23 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I'm not saying that this will be any better than the ACA, but lets not pretend the ACA was great. Everyone I know (middle and lower-middle class) ended up paying more because of it/couldn't afford to use their health insurance anymore, and the ACA wasn't working out financially anyway. (Not that I know this new thing will be able to, either.)

What I am saying is, we likely just traded a turd sandwich for a poopsicle.

Obamacare hasn't affected my prices. In fact, my insurance costs have gone down. I'm in the healthcare field dealing with patients and insurance weekly. There are valid criticisms of Obamacare, but the great majority of complaints I've heard about Obamacare aren't related to Obamacare at all, but rather to health insurance in general.

So I would like to know how Obamacare adversely affected you specifically.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-04-2017, 05:51 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Increase the number of people with access to health care by burdening everyone else who couldn't afford it. That's why so many young healthy people opted out of the ACA and the ACA promptly went into financial troubles. Young people are generally poor and healthy. Neither of those equate to wanting to pay the burden for other people.

I don't care who thought up the scheme. I don't care about liberals/conservatives and who put it into play. It's forcing a majority of people to purchase something they didn't want/didn't need/had already at a more affordable price in order to help a minority of people.


Except when a parent can't afford the copay anymore after decades of being able to because their employer could no longer afford the same coverage as it had in the past.

Or when multiple friends lose hours on their jobs so they are under the healthcare requirement threshold, and on top of that then have to pay money into a program they neither want nor need.

I know you live in a world where you think the rich people are paying for poor people, but it's the middle/lower middle class who end up with the burden. People shouldn't be burdened with paying for other people's decisions. It's not their fault that someone else decided to live off a diet of Pepsi and candy and got diabetes. It's not their fault that they were responsible and used contraceptives while other people pump out two or three children they can't afford.

That's how we got to a point where my generation is going to get screwed by having to pay into a Social Security system that they will never see the benefits for.

I will assume you're young and healthy. Who will pay for your health care when you're old and sick? You won't. You won't be able to afford cash payments. So you will do without healthcare unless you have healthcare insurance. So if you wait to get healthcare insurance until you are old and sick you will pay less into the insurance pool than what you receive (the Grasshopper) and other people will be burdened by your choices (the Ants).

Let me give me you an example. Let's say both you and you're wife work good jobs until you both retire at age 67. Since you will no longer have an employer, you no longer have employer sponsored health insurance. You have Medicare. Let's say you suffer from Alzheimer's and need skilled nursing home care. Today that costs $5000-$8000 per month for basic, no frills nursing homes in BFE southern Ohio. Medicare is not going to cover half of that. How will your wife cover your other medical costs, nursing home care, and her own cost of living? What if your wife passes away, who will take care of you and you're costs then?

[BmorePat87]

Senate not rushing to put their names on this. Graham tweeted: "I appreciate the apparent progress on health care reform in the House of Representatives. I will admit, I’m concerned with the process. A bill -- finalized yesterday, has not been scored, amendments not allowed, and 3 hours final debate -- should be viewed with caution."

Apparently they'll wait for the CBO score and then draft their own, taking what pieces they like from the house bill.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-04-2017, 10:02 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Senate not rushing to put their names on this. Graham tweeted: "I appreciate the apparent progress on health care reform in the House of Representatives. I will admit, I’m concerned with the process. A bill -- finalized yesterday, has not been scored, amendments not allowed, and 3 hours final debate -- should be viewed with caution."

Apparently they'll wait for the CBO score and then draft their own, taking what pieces they like from the house bill.

Graham just boarded the Trump train. That was a short trip.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/lindsey-graham-boards-trump-train-lengthy-feud-140302302.html

[*michaelsean*]

I can't see this passing the Senate. I don't mind if you replace the ACA, but in my mind there is no way they found a way this quickly to transition to a new plan without catastrophic results.

[GMDino]

(05-05-2017, 08:45 AM)michaelsean Wrote: I can't see this passing the Senate.  I don't mind if you replace the ACA, but in my mind there is no way they found a way this quickly to transition to a new plan without catastrophic results.

This falls under the Trump leadership "style".  Do something big, talk about how great and wonderful it is, hope no one notices the shoddy materials used and when it eventually falls under its own weight.

[GMDino]

I belong to a dartball league and I always say if you lose by one or lose by ten you still lost.

Also if you win by one you don't celebrate like you won by ten.

Anyway...

[GMDino]

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-05-2017, 08:45 AM)michaelsean Wrote: I can't see this passing the Senate. I don't mind if you replace the ACA, but in my mind there is no way they found a way this quickly to transition to a new plan without catastrophic results.

But, it hasn't been quickly. The Republicans have had years to develop a better plan they could present to a new Republican President on Day 1 of his presidency. Trump's staff has had since the beginning of his campaign to work on a new plan s well.

Like you, I don't care about replacing Obamacare if the replacement plan is better. If the replacement is better I support repeal and replace. However, removing the pre-existing condition provision to appease the Freedom Caucus makes the plan worse for us; not better.

How this has been handled by both parties demonstrates what is wrong with the current state of politics.

[mallorian69]

(05-05-2017, 02:32 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: But, it hasn't been quickly. The Republicans have had years to develop a better plan they could present to a new Republican President on Day 1 of his presidency. Trump's staff has had since the beginning of his campaign to work on a new plan s well.

Like you, I don't care about replacing Obamacare if the replacement plan is better. If the replacement is better I support repeal and replace. However, removing the pre-existing condition provision to appease the Freedom Caucus makes the plan worse for us; not better.

How this has been handled by both parties demonstrates what is wrong with the current state of politics.

You do realize that it doesn't actually take away the pre-existing clause. It gives states the option to get a waiver for it nothing more. If the states decide to exersice that option then get pissed at your state officials.