AR-15s put in all Madison Cnty schools to enhance security in case of active shooter

[GMDino]

But if they announce there are guns in the school won't that encourage bad guys to want to break in and get them? 

All seriousness aside I'm not sure this helps as much as they think it does.

https://www.citizen-times.com/story/news/madison/2022/08/05/madison-county-schools-add-ar-15-rifles-enhance-security/10234037002/

Quote:MARSHALL - In response to the Texas school shooting that left 19 children dead May 24, the local school system and Sheriff's Office are rolling out some beefed up security measures in 2022-23, including putting AR-15 rifles in every school.


Madison County Schools and Madison County Sheriff's Office are collaborating to enhance security in the schools for the upcoming school year after the Uvalde, Texas, tragedy revealed systemic failures and poor decision-making, with responding police disregarding active-shooter trainings, according to a report from the Texas state house. 


"Those officers were in that building for so long, and that suspect was able to infiltrate that building and injure and kill so many kids," Sheriff Buddy Harwood said. "I just want to make sure my deputies are prepared in the event that happens."

Madison County Schools Superintendent Will Hoffman said MCS administration has been meeting regularly with local law enforcement officials, including Harwood, to discuss the updated safety measures. 


On July 26, he met with school officials and the county's Emergency Operations Center (EOC) to assure that law enforcement can monitor school camera systems.


On July 28, administration met with the school attorney to get briefed on Title IX - sexual harassment and discrimination - as well as enhanced supervision and other safety procedures. 

AR-15 rifles, safes and breaching tools in the schools
"We were able to put an AR-15 rifle and safe in all of our schools in the county," Harwood said. "We've also got breaching tools to go into those safes. We've got extra magazines with ammo in those safes."

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There are six schools in the Madison County system: Brush Creek Elementary, Hot Springs Elementary, Mars Hill Elementary, Madison Middle, Madison High and Madison Early College High.


"The reason we put the breaching tools in the safes is that in the event we have someone barricaded in a door, we won't have to wait on the fire department to get there," Harwood said. "We'll have those tools to be able to breach that door if needed. I do not want to have to run back out to the car to grab an AR, because that's time lost. Hopefully we'll never need it, but I want my guys to be as prepared as prepared can be." 


Harwood said he feels while the optics of the SROs potentially handling AR-15s in schools may be discomforting to some, it is a necessary response given the state of the country.


"I'm a firearms instructor. We carry a (9 mm) 135-grain bullet," Harwood said. "We've got the maximum 50 rounds that my SROs are carrying throughout the school to protect that school. 


"I hate that we've come to a place in our nation where I've got to put a safe in our schools, and lock that safe up for my deputies to be able to acquire an AR-15. But, we can shut it off and say it won't happen in Madison County, but we never know. I want the parents of Madison County to know we're going to take every measure necessary to ensure our kids are safe in this school system. If my parents, as a whole, want me to stand at that door with that AR strapped around that officer's neck, then I'm going to do whatever my parents want as a whole to keep our kids safe." 

Harwood said his staff have met with SBI officials, as well as [url=https://www.mhu.edu/staff/west-kevin/]Kevin West, Mars Hill University's director of safety and security, as well as other local law enforcement officials and first responders to conduct training throughout the summer.


On Aug. 17, the school system and Sheriff's Office will conduct a live scenario to replicate a high-impact incident requiring emergency response. 


"The scenario will incorporate all of our teachers, just to prepare them what to look for in the event we have to come into a school," Harwood said. "We've got helicopters that will be there. It will be a live situation. We'll do the classroom portion of it in the morning." 


According to Harwood, his staff have participated in two training sessions for the upcoming live scenario. 
"I've got a whole host of people that are very capable of putting this training on," Harwood said. "It is sponsored through A-B Tech, so my guys will get training hours for it, including the fire departments." 


Other initiatives
According to Hoffman, the school system is conducting a number of other safety initiatives in 2022-23.
There will be SROs at each school, and the school system will also have a school safety liaison. School social workers and school counselors will be assigned to each school, also. 


There will be a panic button system that reports to monitoring center and the Sheriff’s Office in each building, the superintendent said.


In the fall, MCS will coordinate with the FBI in Asheville to present to middle school and high school students and their parents/guardians about internet safety, especially relating to online enticement and "sextortion." 

Additionally, the school will continue its partnership with the Department of Public Safety to conduct safety checks of its schools, Hoffman said. 


"Contacts are typically drive-thru and surveying of parking areas and touching base with staff outside of our buildings," Hoffman said. "In total, 96 contacts have been completed with our six schools."


"Our partnership with law enforcement is a critical part of our daily preparations," Hoffman said. "We have to be vigilant and prepared for any possibility at any time. Our students have to feel safe in order to be safe.


"No organization can do this alone. That’s why strong community partnerships are integral to our safe school efforts, they are more important now than ever."

[CKwi88]

That's a #America moment if I've ever seen one.

[Belsnickel]

So, they are putting the rifle and the ammunition in the safes? That goes against everything I teach about safe firearm storage as an NRA Instructor.

Are these safes going to be installed in such a manner that they cannot be easily removed from the building? A safe does zero good if people know it is there and it isn't secured properly.

This is just a terrible idea.

[Leon]

(08-07-2022, 08:14 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: So, they are putting the rifle and the ammunition in the safes? That goes against everything I teach about safe firearm storage as an NRA Instructor.

Are these safes going to be installed in such a manner that they cannot be easily removed from the building? A safe does zero good if people know it is there and it isn't secured properly.

This is just a terrible idea.

ive owned guns for over 40 years an got over 30 on my propety right now and i can tell you i dont know any gun owner worth there salt that would store there ammo in with there weapons. thats just not something anyone would do that knows any thing about firearms an safety

[*Nately120*]

(08-07-2022, 08:23 PM)Leon Wrote: ive owned guns for over 40 years an got over 30 on my propety right now and i can tell you i dont know any gun owner worth there salt that would store there ammo in with there weapons. thats just not something anyone would do that knows any thing about firearms an safety

(08-07-2022, 08:14 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: So, they are putting the rifle and the ammunition in the safes? That goes against everything I teach about safe firearm storage as an NRA Instructor.

Are these safes going to be installed in such a manner that they cannot be easily removed from the building? A safe does zero good if people know it is there and it isn't secured properly.

This is just a terrible idea.

Interesting...I'm not a gun guy so I've never head of this.  It is common/logical practice to store firearms and the relevant ammo separately?  Why?

[Belsnickel]

(08-07-2022, 08:27 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Interesting...I'm not a gun guy so I've never head of this.  It is common/logical practice to store firearms and the relevant ammo separately?  Why?

The whole reason to lock up your firearms is to prevent someone who shouldn't be accessing them from accessing them and using them in a manner they shouldn't be used. If you store your ammunition with your firearms then access to one storage location means they not only have the firearms, but the ammunition as well. In the case of someone with nefarious intent, they now have all they need to do damage. In the case of a child being curious, they now have the ability to inadvertently harm themselves or someone else.

The preferred system is to have the ammunition and firearms stored in separate rooms under separate locks. For instance, my firearms are in a safe tucked in a closet in my house that has its own key. My ammunition is in a dry box in another room with two padlocks on it. No one other than my wife and I knows where these two locations are in the house.

[Belsnickel]

(08-07-2022, 08:23 PM)Leon Wrote: ive owned guns for over 40 years an got over 30 on my propety right now and i can tell you i dont know any gun owner worth there salt that would store there ammo in with there weapons. thats just not something anyone would do that knows any thing about firearms an safety

That's what seems to be the proposal based on the article, which is why I made the comment I did.

[*Nately120*]

(08-08-2022, 07:47 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: The whole reason to lock up your firearms is to prevent someone who shouldn't be accessing them from accessing them and using them in a manner they shouldn't be used. If you store your ammunition with your firearms then access to one storage location means they not only have the firearms, but the ammunition as well. In the case of someone with nefarious intent, they now have all they need to do damage. In the case of a child being curious, they now have the ability to inadvertently harm themselves or someone else.

The preferred system is to have the ammunition and firearms stored in separate rooms under separate locks. For instance, my firearms are in a safe tucked in a closet in my house that has its own key. My ammunition is in a dry box in another room with two padlocks on it. No one other than my wife and I knows where these two locations are in the house.

Makes sense, but so much firearms talk involves situations where seconds matter, so I never figured you'd put another lock in the way of being ready. 

I realize that's a lot of talk, but I also know multiple people who had to begrudgingly yet quickly arm themselves against people approaching or in one case forcibly entering their homes with criminal intent. 

[Belsnickel]

(08-08-2022, 07:54 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Makes sense, but so much firearms talk involves situations where seconds matter, so I never figured you'd put another lock in the way of being ready. 

I realize that's a lot of talk, but I also know multiple people who had to begrudgingly yet quickly arm themselves against people approaching or in one case forcibly entering their homes with criminal intent. 

We are talking about storage of firearms that aren't in that "ready to be used" situation. Like my rifles, shotguns, and pistols that are more for the range or hunting. I have a pistol that is accessible, and of course if I am carrying then it is accessible. But there is one in my bedroom that isn't behind a lock, just well hidden and not even my wife knows where it is. However, it is never unattended in this way. It gets tucked away like that when I am at home, only.

[*Nately120*]

(08-08-2022, 08:13 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: We are talking about storage of firearms that aren't in that "ready to be used" situation. Like my rifles, shotguns, and pistols that are more for the range or hunting. I have a pistol that is accessible, and of course if I am carrying then it is accessible. But there is one in my bedroom that isn't behind a lock, just well hidden and not even my wife knows where it is. However, it is never unattended in this way. It gets tucked away like that when I am at home, only.

Ah ok.  Im not arguing, i figures it safe to say people who own guns and aren't currently looking down the barrel of their own firearm know more about it than i do. 

I feel like a gun is like a mind...it's only useful when it's loaded.  

[Belsnickel]

(08-08-2022, 08:19 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Ah ok.  Im not arguing, i figures it safe to say people who own guns and aren't currently looking down the barrel of their own firearm know more about it than i do. 

I feel like a gun is like a mind...it's only useful when it's loaded.  

This is true. Of course, you don't need all of your firearms at a given time. I don't need my bear hunting rifle to be ready in case someone breaks into my house, for instance.

[hollodero]

(08-08-2022, 08:57 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: This is true. Of course, you don't need all of your firearms at a given time. I don't need my bear hunting rifle to be ready in case someone breaks into my house, for instance.

What if a bear breaks in?

Also, the whole point of storing guns in schools seems to be that guns are available at any time in case of an active shooter. Meaning, available at a second's notice, including with ammunition.

To be clear, I am of course not in favor of this, seems more like providing the assets to the potential killer so he doesn't have to bring his own murder weapons and can act on a spontaneous impulse. But still. When you store guns for the good guys to stop a shooter and store the ammunition separately, it seems to serve no purpose at all.

[Belsnickel]

(08-08-2022, 09:41 AM)hollodero Wrote: What if a bear breaks in?

Also, the whole point of storing guns in schools seems to be that guns are available at any time in case of an active shooter. Meaning, available at a second's notice, including with ammunition.

To be clear, I am of course not in favor of this, seems more like providing the assets to the potential killer so he doesn't have to bring his own murder weapons and can act on a spontaneous impulse. But still. When you store guns for the good guys to stop a shooter and store the ammunition separately, it seems to serve no purpose at all.

If a bear breaks in then it will get about 35 rounds of 9mm pumped into it at close range. It won't be 75-150 yards away like when I get them in the woods.

The quick access firearm is the sidearm for the SRO. Additional seconds always count in something like this, but the very nature of having a firearm in a safe at a static location means that it would be for a more delayed reaction. I would actually contend that the SRO should just carry two magazines for the rifle on their belt during the day. Then you have them separate, it's controlled access, and it isn't an extra step. Grab the rifle, mag is already in hand.

[hollodero]

(08-08-2022, 09:51 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: If a bear breaks in then it will get about 35 rounds of 9mm pumped into it at close range. It won't be 75-150 yards away like when I get them in the woods.

The quick access firearm is the sidearm for the SRO. Additional seconds always count in something like this, but the very nature of having a firearm in a safe at a static location means that it would be for a more delayed reaction. I would actually contend that the SRO should just carry two magazines for the rifle on their belt during the day. Then you have them separate, it's controlled access, and it isn't an extra step. Grab the rifle, mag is already in hand.

Makes perfect sense, I did not think of that.

Which is not to say I don't still think that is a terrible idea.

[Belsnickel]

(08-08-2022, 09:57 AM)hollodero Wrote: Makes perfect sense, I did not think of that.

Which is not to say I don't still think that is a terrible idea.

Oh, same here.

[hollodero]

(08-08-2022, 10:02 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Oh, same here.

Can I ask though, and apologies because you most probably already answered that somewhere, what would be good solutions/measures, if there are any?

[Arturo Bandini]

More guns !!!!

[guyofthetiger]

I thought most places are gun free zones for a reason. Having guns on the premises just might backfire if someone gets control of them. Personally, I would focus on response times of police and maybe the on site officer.

[Belsnickel]

(08-08-2022, 10:05 AM)hollodero Wrote: Can I ask though, and apologies because you most probably already answered that somewhere, what would be good solutions/measures, if there are any?

There is a lot of debate on this. I am in the camp of root-cause-mitigation when it comes to violence of any sort. What this means is that I like to try to focus on the underlying causes of the violence and not the violence itself. Things like improving our mental healthcare system in this country, improving our education system so that children do not end up feeling lost in the system as easily. These are things that would reduce not just violence, but would improve many other things as well.

[*michaelsean*]

(08-08-2022, 07:47 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: The whole reason to lock up your firearms is to prevent someone who shouldn't be accessing them from accessing them and using them in a manner they shouldn't be used. If you store your ammunition with your firearms then access to one storage location means they not only have the firearms, but the ammunition as well. In the case of someone with nefarious intent, they now have all they need to do damage. In the case of a child being curious, they now have the ability to inadvertently harm themselves or someone else.

The preferred system is to have the ammunition and firearms stored in separate rooms under separate locks. For instance, my firearms are in a safe tucked in a closet in my house that has its own key. My ammunition is in a dry box in another room with two padlocks on it. No one other than my wife and I knows where these two locations are in the house.

So I'm a little curious also.  If someone doesn't have children, then who is this person with nefarious intent?  A burglar doesn't really need ammo on the spot.