Active shooter in Maryland

[Benton]

(06-29-2018, 09:51 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Agreed. There was a lot of finger pointing immediately after by very public figures, and those fingers were pointed right at each other. It was rather disgusting. I know Nately was being his usual snarky self with his comments, but people like Hannity immediately blaming Maxine Waters or people on the left blaming Trump and Milo in the immediate aftermath just isn't helpful.

No, the comments from Trump, Milo, Waters, and whomever else aren't helpful to the discourse in our society, but we should always wait for motive to be made clear before finger pointing. Instead, because of the news cycle in our society, it is a race to pile on the blame first. Facts be damned.

Calling a group an enemy of the people or consistently blaming them for the world's problems makes it easier to consider violence. It falls in with politicians saying people need to exercise their 2nd amendment rights... and then acting shocked when someone does. What did they think they were advocating? Trump calling the press an enemy and then offering his "thoughts and prayers" is insulting.

[GMDino]

Kudos to the paper for printing an issue today!

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/06/28/capital-gazette-shooting-wont-stop-publication/744341002/

A ten person byline too.

[*michaelsean*]

(06-29-2018, 10:21 AM)Benton Wrote: Calling a group an enemy of the people or consistently blaming them for the world's problems makes it easier to consider violence. It falls in with politicians saying people need to exercise their 2nd amendment rights... and then acting shocked when someone does. What did they think they were advocating? Trump calling the press an enemy and then offering his "thoughts and prayers" is insulting.

Trump didn't make this easier or more likely.  "Going postal' was coined a long time before Trump.  This happened to have been a newspaper that the guy was in conflict with.

[*Nately120*]

(06-29-2018, 10:24 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Trump didn't make this easier or more likely.  "Going postal' was coined a long time before Trump.  This happened to have been a newspaper that the guy was in conflict with.

Do we really have long term data on how people react to the president inciting violence, though?  Is this the new norm?  Has it always been happening?

When a democrat gets elected who will he or she tell us is the enemy then?

[*michaelsean*]

(06-29-2018, 10:16 AM)GMDino Wrote: Nate pointed out the Pizza Shop/Child Sex ring as a good example.

There are more.

People with a microphone can incite violence even while claiming they didn't.  And just because one incident wasn't because of the hate being spewed at a specific group that doesn't mean it isn't happening.

And they certainly don't feel shame about it.

Edit:

See...Milo was just "trolling" and he "can't believe" anyone took his "joke" seriously enough to consider it a threat.

http://thehill.com/homenews/media/394715-milo-yiannopoulos-my-call-for-shooting-journalists-was-just-a-troll


Now just because he explained his "joke" AFTER the shooting surely means nothing.  Right?

But, again, even if this incident had nothing to do with what he said, or what Trump says or what anyone says...they are still out their saying it and it's not going to end well.

Ain't no foreign gay atheist speaking for me an' mine.  I'm a God fearin' American man, and I mean man if know what I mean.

[Belsnickel]

(06-29-2018, 10:21 AM)Benton Wrote: Calling a group an enemy of the people or consistently blaming them for the world's problems makes it easier to consider violence. It falls in with politicians saying people need to exercise their 2nd amendment rights... and then acting shocked when someone does. What did they think they were advocating? Trump calling the press an enemy and then offering his "thoughts and prayers" is insulting.

I don't disagree with any of this. I am just advocating that instead of immediately jumping to conclusions we wait for the facts to come out.

[Benton]

(06-29-2018, 10:30 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I don't disagree with any of this. I am just advocating that instead of immediately jumping to conclusions we wait for the facts to come out.

Agreed. Unfortunately, I don't think we're heading in that direction. People tend to believe what they hear first, especially if it's what they already perceive.  


EDIT to add:
I hadn't heard about the Milo comments until now.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/06/28/milo-yiannopoulos-confirms-his-gunning-down-journalists-comments/743561002/
It's nice to see him say that if his comments did have any influence, it's the fault of the media and liberals.

[GMDino]

(06-29-2018, 10:24 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Trump didn't make this easier or more likely.  "Going postal' was coined a long time before Trump.  This happened to have been a newspaper that the guy was in conflict with.

This time.

That's the point about the rhetoric from Trump and others.

[*Nately120*]

(06-29-2018, 10:30 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Ain't no foreign gay atheist speaking for me an' mine.  I'm a God fearin' American man, and I mean man if know what I mean.

The source is secondary behind the message being what people want to hear, usually. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(06-29-2018, 10:34 AM)GMDino Wrote: This time.

That's the point about the rhetoric from Trump and others.

The only politically motivated violence of this sort I can recall of late was a Sanders supporter who tried to murder several GOP members of Congress.  You'll get no argument from me about the rhetoric though, from both sides.

[*michaelsean*]

(06-29-2018, 10:37 AM)Nately120 Wrote: The source is secondary behind the message being what people want to hear, usually. 

I probably should add a smiley face.

[*Nately120*]

(06-29-2018, 10:42 AM)michaelsean Wrote: I probably should add a smiley face.

I probably should take a break from politics. I feel like a recovering alcoholic who is chugging whiskey these days. 

[*michaelsean*]

(06-29-2018, 10:43 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I probably should take a break from politics. I feel like a recovering alcoholic who is chugging whiskey these days. 

I'll let you know what that's like in 24 years when I jump off the wagon.  Yes I have a planned eff this sobriety shit day.

[*Nately120*]

(06-29-2018, 10:38 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: The only politically motivated violence of this sort I can recall of late was a Sanders supporter who tried to murder several GOP members of Congress.  You'll get no argument from me about the rhetoric though, from both sides.

I admit I was looking for an easy target to blame and this is just another run of the mill shooting 

Frighteningly insignificant in the grand scheme of things, really. 

[GMDino]

(06-29-2018, 10:38 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: The only politically motivated violence of this sort I can recall of late was a Sanders supporter who tried to murder several GOP members of Congress.  You'll get no argument from me about the rhetoric though, from both sides.

So the Pizza place getting shot up wasn't politically motivated?

The Tiller shooting wasn't?

Giffords?


You're not blind and you're not dumb...so I'll assume you're just choosing to ignore it to make your argument better.  Though I am sure you will blame the "media" for those anyway.

[BmorePat87]

I'm not going to buy into this being anything more than his own grudge until there's more evidence. He had a years long feud with the paper.


He's from my hometown...

[fredtoast]

(06-29-2018, 10:59 AM)GMDino Wrote: So the Pizza place getting shot up was politically motivated?

The Tiller shooting wasn't?

Giffords?


You're not blind and you're not dumb...so I'll assume you're just choosing to ignore it to make your argument better.  Though I am sure you will blame the "media" for those anyway.

Th dumbass who shot a bunch of Sikhs because he thought everyone in a turban was a Muslim was obsessed with Fox News.

A selective memory is a wonderful thing.

I can think of examples from BOTH sides, not just the one I support.

[GMDino]

(06-29-2018, 11:04 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I'm not going to buy into this being anything more than his own grudge until there's more evidence. He had a years long feud with the paper.


He's from my hometown...

And given what we "know" right now you're right.

I was just musing on the fact that because THIS one wasn't inspired by the hate speech out there doesn't mean the hate speech isn't bad/wrong/causing problems.

Small town?

[*bfine32*]

(06-29-2018, 10:21 AM)Benton Wrote: Calling a group an enemy of the people or consistently blaming them for the world's problems makes it easier to consider violence. It falls in with politicians saying people need to exercise their 2nd amendment rights... and then acting shocked when someone does. What did they think they were advocating? Trump calling the press an enemy and then offering his "thoughts and prayers" is insulting.

I wondered how long it would take for this to be Trump's fault.

[BmorePat87]

(06-29-2018, 11:15 AM)GMDino Wrote: And given what we "know" right now you're right.

I was just musing on the fact that because THIS one wasn't inspired by the hate speech out there doesn't mean the hate speech isn't bad/wrong/causing problems.

Small town?

Small enough that my the girl down the street who babysat me knew him from high school.