Adieu Accord de Paris

[Dill]

Mindboggling. Years of diplomacy down the drain.  And right after Merkel's speech concerning the trustworthiness and stability of any US partnership.

Trump Will Withdraw U.S. From Paris Climate Agreement
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/01/climate/trump-paris-climate-agreement.html?_r=0

WASHINGTON — President Trump announced Thursday that he will withdraw the United States from participation in the Paris climate accord, weakening global efforts to combat climate change and siding with conservatives who argued that the landmark 2015 agreement was harming the economy.

But he will stick to the withdrawal process laid out in the Paris agreement, which President Barack Obama joined and most of the world has already ratified. That could take nearly four years to complete, meaning a final decision would be up to the American voters in the next presidential election.

Still, Mr. Trump’s decision is a remarkable rebuke to fellow heads-of-state, climate activists, corporate executives and members of the president’s own staff, all of whom failed this week to change Mr. Trump’s mind with an intense, last-minute lobbying blitz.

....

The president’s decision was a victory for Stephen K. Bannon, his chief strategist, and Scott Pruitt, his Environmental Protection Agency administrator, both of whom had argued forcefully to abandon the global agreement in favor of a clean break that would clear the way for a new environmental approach.

Other top aides, including Gary D. Cohn, the director of the National Economic Council; the president’s daughter, Ivanka Trump; and his secretary of state, Rex W. Tillerson, had insisted to Mr. Trump that remaining a part of the agreement would have allowed the United States to eviscerate Obama-era climate rules without as much damage to relations with other countries.

Check out the interactive graph
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/05/31/climate/trump-climate-paris-agreement.html

[Arturo Bandini]

How do you guys made this complete tool your president ?

I still can't believe it.

You're gonna take a 15 years step back on the energies of the future to bring back coal ...



I can even imagine his words. Paris deal was bad. Very bad.

What a clown. There are 7 billions people here on Earth smarter than this guy.

[Mike M (the other one)]

The sum of pledges to do nothing = Nothing.
Another dumb idea that American Taxpayers were paying for with no benefit so that someone else could make money off of us.

Au revoir.

[Dill]

(06-01-2017, 06:10 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: How do you guys made this complete tool your president ?

I still can't believe it.

You're gonna take a 15 years step back on the energies of the future to bring back coal ...

I can even imagine his words. Paris deal was bad. Very bad.

What a clown. There are 7 billions people here on Earth smarter than this guy.

Whoa Arturo. We didn't ALL make him president. It is really about a quarter of the US population directly voting for him. Then another 10-20% who didn't vote because they were lazy or didn't like Hillary.

We are all paying now.

[Dill]

(06-01-2017, 06:27 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: The sum of pledges to do nothing = Nothing.
Another dumb idea that American Taxpayers were paying for with no benefit so that someone else could make money off of us.

Au revoir.

So, you don't really know much about the Paris Accord, other than what Trump told you?

[Millhouse]

The Paris Accord had some issues involved concerning us. But overall it was a good thing to be a part of as opposed to being out of it with Syria and Nicaragua of all countries.

This is not a move I like at all, and Trump's ignorance and arrogance is becoming more detrimental. He should try to make the Paris Accord a better deal for us, rather than just abandon it completely. But I suppose the advice he gets from Steve Bannon and the "1%" of scientists is good enough. Darn you Biden for not running, and damn you DNC for propping Hillary up there instead.

[Belsnickel]

This is just telling the world that we don't want to be a global leader in this. I mean, if I recall correctly there is only one other member state that won't be a part of this: Syria (Nicaragua is expected to sign). So it's us and Syria, a war torn country where its people are refugees all over the world, that don't think this is a good deal.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(06-01-2017, 06:29 PM)Dill Wrote: So, you don't really know much about the Paris Accord, other than what Trump told you?

Nah, I didn't get it from there.
All I have to do is look at how corrupt the UN has become. Same thing will happen here.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

Not entirely clear on how I feel about it personally, but I can't say I am surprised. He made it pretty clear during the election he was going to do it, and it only took his say so rather than say, building a giant wall. So I was pretty sure this was coming.

[hollodero]

(06-01-2017, 06:10 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: How do you guys made this complete tool your president ?

I still can't believe it.

You're gonna take a 15 years step back on the energies of the future to bring back coal ...



I can even imagine his words. Paris deal was bad. Very bad.

What a clown. There are 7 billions people here on Earth smarter than this guy.

Finally, another European around here giving his opinion. Now people can see how restrained I've been :)

I entered this special board with quite a similar question in mind. How could the US, of all countries, fall for the alt-right which can't quite get there in Western Europe, not even in my country. I wanted to gain an unique perspective on that, from people rather then our media. This board is quite the fine microcosm for American society.
The answer to your question is, I believe, very complex, but I will try to sum up my findings in an oversimplifying manner: He is not a "liberal", and that's that. His voters would accept anyone, really anyone, he could beat up people, be pro-child molestation, wrapped up in a swastika, doesn't matter. As Trump himself said: He could shoot someone in the streets and would not lose support. That wasn't just a funny saying, he was dead serious about that, and quite right. Everything's better than a liberal.
It's what a two-party system obviously does to political people (unless they happen to be libertarians).
In three years time, liberal voters will feel the same, they would gladly vote for Anthony Weiner too, or anyone who isn't Republican. Half the population doesn't care about politics any more, the other half is deeply politicized, and everything is. Every stance is. Violence is condemned when coming from the other side, but a politician from the right side laying hand on a reporter isn't a big deal. Which is not a stinger, just the truth. Everything's politicized. Even logic, facts and truth. All subordinate to political perspective. The way you and I see Trump, people with a certain perspective just can't see him and never will.

We Europeans have to see the US as it is - a non-reliable partner we can and should not trust. We need to grow apart, and quickly. Meaning we need a stronger military, a stronger EU. We relied on America for way too long, believing they will stay stable and reasonable and our friends. A thought to be dismissed rapidly too.

The US pulling out of the Paris agreement might end up being a good thing for the world, for said reason. It's also one of the few things I really can't quite forgive the American right. Denying climate change, despite all the facts, all the visible signs, all the experts' opinions isn't conservative politics, it's reactionary wishful phantasy politics - and quite unique in the world.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(06-01-2017, 06:57 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Corrupt like bribing public officials corrupt? I'm just curious since, you know, our POTUS has been caught doing that kind of corrupt stuff so I'm wondering where the line of corruption is for you.

Out of the 2 major players in this last election, Trump couldn't hold up Hillary's pant suits when it comes to bribes.

[Belsnickel]

(06-01-2017, 07:32 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Out of the 2 major players in this last election, Trump couldn't hold up Hillary's pant suits when it comes to bribes.

I decided not to go down that route and so deleted my post after pondering it. I will just say that corrupt is corrupt, and we aren't talking about a Clinton comparison.

[SunsetBengal]

Good, and I hope that they exercise the nuclear option, and get out of the UN Convention on climate change as well. If the rest of the world wants the US to be in such agreements, they need to be fair, with equal commitment from ALL Nations involved.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(06-01-2017, 07:35 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I decided not to go down that route and so deleted my post after pondering it. I will just say that corrupt is corrupt, and we aren't talking about a Clinton comparison.

I understand, it's not a win-win for anyone, but lesser of 2 evils comes into play in this last Election no matter how you slice it. Then add their plans. Which I prefer a future under Trump's plan vs Hillary's plan.

[Dill]

(06-01-2017, 07:32 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Out of the 2 major players in this last election, Trump couldn't hold up Hillary's pant suits when it comes to bribes.

Here is one of those amazing differences between Trumpsters and everyone else.  Clinton corruption was mostly a creation of Fox News and endless investigations and innuendo. One would find no wrongdoing, so on to the next, from Whitewatergate to Benghazi. They did do damage as fishing expeditions which turned up Monicagate and Hillary's email scandal. The tactic was mostly to keep the questions going--appearance as fact.

Trump and his family, on the other hand, are brazenly and actually selling influence and profiting from Trump's office, from doubling the fees at his country club to the Kushners promising a Chinese business green cards to direct real estate purchases. He wasn't a month into office before his staff (and likely himself) were under investigation on a number of fronts, including the financial.

Hillary was MUCH more transparent with her finances than Trump has ever been. And yet Trumpsters remain utterly convinced she was corrupt one, the supposed greater risk to national security.

[Dill]

(06-01-2017, 07:36 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Good, and I hope that they exercise the nuclear option, and get out of the UN Convention on climate change as well.  If the rest of the world wants the US to be in such agreements, they need to be fair, with equal commitment from ALL Nations involved.

What's unequal, in your view.

[CKwi88]

I think that this move was essentially a given ever since November. If not since November, since Pruitt was confirmed. While it is undoubtedly embarrassing and detrimental, I do hope that the left doesn't scream and ***** about it. Doing so will just play into the GOP's claim of "obstruction" and "snowflakeness"

The withdrawal will be completed on November 4, 2020. Election day will be November 3, 2020. If the Dems want to right this wrong, find a decent candidate and return a sense of integrity to the White House and do something about it.

[SunsetBengal]

(06-01-2017, 08:17 PM)Dill Wrote: What's unequal, in your view.

The fact that some Nations have delayed "commitments", the fact that the US spends money toward the Global Climate Science effort when other Nations give nothing. 

[Goalpost]

Basically from what I gathered of Trumps speech, it wasn't that he disagreed with protecting the climate, but rather he questioned the financial aspects of the US's obligations in it.

[GMDino]

(06-01-2017, 06:10 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: How do you guys made this complete tool your president ?

I still can't believe it.

You're gonna take a 15 years step back on the energies of the future to bring back coal ...



I can even imagine his words. Paris deal was bad. Very bad.

What a clown. There are 7 billions people here on Earth smarter than this guy.

There was a bunch of "very, very" a few "believe me" and much side talk (off script) about how bad things would be for the US.

All of that, of course, came after a brief campaign speech on all the great, really great things that have happened since he was elected.

Because his policies are the only reasons anything good has happened in the last 6 months.