Adieu Accord de Paris

[Mike M (the other one)]

(06-01-2017, 11:32 PM)Dill Wrote: Syria and Nicaragua aren't giving anything at the moment. Can you think of any others who are not giving anything? 

Myself, I would only be concerned about the world's main polluters, like the US China, INdia, and some European countries. It took years to finally get China on board.  All undone now. 

A world leader no can rely on now.

Good, they need to learn to pay their own bills. 
You hear about free education and healthcare in other countries, maybe if we weren't so busy paying to police the world we could do the same for our own citizens.

[JustWinBaby]

(06-01-2017, 10:50 PM)Dill Wrote: Not a hint of counter argument, no counter factuals here, only a soft gurgle emerging from the bubble.

What is clear is you accept speculation as fact with regard to Trump, while dismissing similar with Clinton.  Either you're willing to accept smoke in the absence of evidence in both cases, or not.  I stated it plainly and fairly - you are not taking an equally objective view of both but seeing and believing what you want to.

There was nothing to respond to. Your post was comically partisan. I literally thought it was a joke until I realized, sadly, it wasn't.

Join the other bubble dwellers here that use that as their go-to comeback every time their hypocritical BS is called out.  I didn't vote for Trump, I'm not a Republican and I don't get my beliefs from whatever echo chamber you attribute to views that differ from your own.

[SunsetBengal]

Here's what is almost comical. I recently read that the US ranks 26th globally in environmental measures, and that is considered poor, very bad. Yet, I heard on one of the news reports yesterday that 195 Nations are a part of the Paris Accord. So, with the US doing more than 87% of the other Nations, that is considered "poor".

Laughable.

Let the EU Nations pay for the developing Nations to pledge to do nothing noteworthy. Heck, for that matter, let the EU Nations develop their own military forces to protect themselves.

[*michaelsean*]

(06-01-2017, 08:54 PM)GMDino Wrote: Heaven forbid the US be a leader and innovator in the next generation of climate control and making the world a better place.

It might cost some money.

So tired of winning.

I'm good with someond else being the leader.  Maybe Austria and France can take on that role.  Marcon seems eager to do it.

[GMDino]

(06-02-2017, 08:41 AM)michaelsean Wrote: I'm good with someond else being the leader.  Maybe Austria and France can take on that role.  Marcon seems eager to do it.

Why would you want someone else to be the creators, sellers, make money rather than the US?

On a side note my campaign for POTUS in 2020 will be based on bringing back the use of whale oil.  We've lost too many jobs on the open seas due to regulations on whale hunting and having "alternative" fuel sources pushed on us.

[*michaelsean*]

(06-02-2017, 08:44 AM)GMDino Wrote: Why would you want someone else to be the creators, sellers, make money rather than the US?

On a side note my campaign for POTUS in 2020 will be based on bringing back the use of whale oil.  We've lost too many jobs on the open seas due to regulations on whale hunting and having "alternative" fuel sources pushed on us.

Nobody is stopping business from doing any of that.  

[GMDino]

(06-02-2017, 08:48 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Nobody is stopping business from doing any of that.  

You are correct on that point.  Most businesses and members of government and citizens understand that we need to be innovators and continue to be world leaders.

Sadly the POTUS thinks it's "unfair" that 230+ countries managed to agree on something...and someone might be laughing at us (him).

[Vlad]

(06-01-2017, 08:16 PM)Dill Wrote: Here is one of those amazing differences between Trumpsters and everyone else.  Clinton corruption was mostly a creation of Fox News and endless investigations and innuendo. One would find no wrongdoing, so on to the next, from Whitewatergate to Benghazi. They did do damage as fishing expeditions which turned up Monicagate and Hillary's email scandal. The tactic was mostly to keep the questions going--appearance as fact.

Trump and his family, on the other hand, are brazenly and actually selling influence and profiting from Trump's office, from doubling the fees at his country club to the Kushners promising a Chinese business green cards to direct real estate purchases. He wasn't a month into office before his staff (and likely himself) were under investigation on a number of fronts, including the financial.

Hillary was MUCH more transparent with her finances than Trump has ever been. And yet Trumpsters remain utterly convinced she was corrupt one, the supposed greater risk to national security.

Right, may as well blame FOX News for Hilldebeest losing the election too.

Mention "endless investigation and innuendo" and the first thing that comes to mind to a rational person the Russia/Trump bullshit.
Too bad the left isn't as relentless and places the same amount of effort into investigating Clinton corruption.

[GMDino]

(06-02-2017, 08:57 AM)Vlad Wrote: Right, may as well blame FOX News for Hilldebeest losing the election too.

Mention "endless investigation and innuendo" and the first thing that comes to mind to a rational person the Russia/Trump bullshit.
Too bad the left isn't as relentless and places the same amount of effort into investigating Clinton corruption.

Trump promised he would investigate Clinton.

The GOP controls the House, Senate and SC.

No investigations of Clinton.

GOP have asked for a special prosecutor to investigate Trump's administration....4 months in.

I know you won't agree or understand what all that means but I wanted to see the spin after your head explodes.  

[*michaelsean*]

(06-02-2017, 08:51 AM)GMDino Wrote: You are correct on that point.  Most businesses and members of government and citizens understand that we need to be innovators and continue to be world leaders.

Sadly the POTUS thinks it's "unfair" that 230+ countries managed to agree on something...and someone might be laughing at us (him)

If a business wants to be a world leader in green innovation then go for it, but they are doing it because they want to make a profit, and our participation in the Paris Agreement doesn't affect them.  
Personally I had no problem with us being in the agreement as we determine our own goals.  Of course we can still do that with the added benefit that the EU will stop taking us for granted because of our wild instability.

[Vlad]

Bravo Trump. His best decision, second to the Gorsuch nomination.


Of course the majority of the countries that have signed on to this giant hoax. They are the benefactors. The US pumps billions to support their economies under the guise of climate change, at the expense of the American taxpayer.

Nothing more than a global distribution of wealth scheme openly admitted by the higher up proponents of this hoax.
America after all is the reason why third world counties exist. By our very founding we are illegitimate .
Time to pay the world back.

"One has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy. This has almost nothing to do with the environmental policy anymore, with problems such as deforestation or the ozone hole. We redistribute de facto the world’s wealth by climate policy"- Otman Edinhoffer

"This is probably the most difficult task we have ever given ourselves, which is to intentionally transform the economic development model, for the first time in human history."-Christiana-Figueres

[GMDino]

(06-02-2017, 09:09 AM)michaelsean Wrote: If a business wants to be a world leader in green innovation then go for it, but they are doing it because they want to make a profit, and our participation in the Paris Agreement doesn't affect them.  
Personally I had no problem with us being in the agreement as we determine our own goals.  Of course we can still do that with the added benefit that the EU will stop taking us for granted because of our wild instability.

Yet your President said it was "unfair" and people were "laughing at us."

It's another example of Trump not understanding something but rather letting his massive ego get in the way and think HE could make a "better deal"...added to the fact that whether he wants to pull out or not the US will still forge ahead with the deal because the vast majority understand it is a good idea.

But he can tell the base he "did something" and "kept a campaign promise".  Yay.

[Au165]

(06-02-2017, 09:18 AM)Vlad Wrote: Bravo Trump. His best decision, second to the Gorsuch nomination.


Of course the majority of the countries that have signed on to this giant hoax. They are the benefactors. The US pumps billions to support their economies under the guise of climate change, at the expense of the American taxpayer.

Nothing more than a global distribution of wealth scheme openly admitted by the higher up proponents of this hoax.
America after all is the reason why third world counties exist. By our very founding we are illigitamate.
Time to pay the world back.

It's $400 million a year, we spent around $70 million on one attack on a Syrian compound a few months ago. It was estimated in 2014 we wasted $125 billion in government spending. It is a total non starter to act as if $400 million a year (literally a couple dollars a year per tax paying person in the U.S) is a big deal in the grand scheme of being a leader of the one thing the entire world has agreed on in recent history.

[GMDino]

(06-01-2017, 11:19 PM)Dill Wrote:

Sure!

But the POTUS said he was elected to represent the US...not Paris, and the people of the US want us to stay in the PAris Accord.  

Not that his base will get it.  They will drone on about "fighting the elites", the US sending money to other countries, etc.

[Belsnickel]

(06-01-2017, 11:46 PM)Dill Wrote: One should not underestimate the "symbolic" dimension here. This is about reliability as much as climate change. The pull out is sending shock waves through US allies.

The French have already weighed in. We will hear soon from the British and Germans, maybe Japanese too.

French president excoriates Trump in English over his withdrawal from climate deal
http://www.businessinsider.com/french-president-macron-trump-english-climate-change-paris-agreement-2017-6

"To all the scientists, engineers, entrepreneurs, and responsible citizens who were disappointed by the decision by the president of the United States, I want to say they will find in France a second homeland," Macron said. "I call on them — come and work here with us, to work together on concrete solutions for our climate."

Oh, I don't underestimate it at all. We have been sliding for years in the eyes of the world, and with this announcement we have told the world that we are no longer going to be the leaders of the western world. Flat out. If you understand the policy behind all of this then it is plain that this was not about money at all, this was about nationalist, isolationist ideals. It's what his base wanted, it's what he said he would do, and it doesn't matter how much this is going to harm us on the international stage he was going to keep the promise to them, even if they are in the minority.

[Vlad]

Wake up climate sheeple!

Unsurprisingly, the sum of many pledges to do nothing is: nothing. 

While everyone else both literally and figuratively mailed in their commitments, the president (Obama) pledged a dramatic reduction in U.S. emissions: 26 to 28 percent below their 2005 level by 2025. To further grease the skids of international diplomacy, he committed the United States to lead the transfer of $100 billion in annual “climate finance” from the developed world to the developing countries that are pledging nothing.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/434412/paris-climate-agreement-americans-foot-bill-no-effect-climate

[Belsnickel]

I'm just happy that cities (like Pittsburgh) and companies are standing up to this nonsense and saying they will continue to work towards lowering emissions and utilizing more sustainable energy sources. This doesn't help the damage this does to our global image, but at least there are people wise enough to recognize the need for these efforts in our businesses and lower levels of government.

[Au165]

(06-02-2017, 09:51 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I'm just happy that cities (like Pittsburgh) and companies are standing up to this nonsense and saying they will continue to work towards lowering emissions and utilizing more sustainable energy sources. This doesn't help the damage this does to our global image, but at least there are people wise enough to recognize the need for these efforts in our businesses and lower levels of government.

The irony of Trump saying he "governs for Pittsburgh, not Paris " is somewhat sad and comical at the same time.

[Belsnickel]

(06-02-2017, 09:53 AM)Au165 Wrote: The irony of Trump saying he "governs for Pittsburgh, not Paris " is somewhat sad and comical at the same time.

Before I heard about the mayor's response, I was telling my wife how full of crap that statement was. He was governing for a Pittsburgh that doesn't exist anymore, can never exist anymore, but it's what folks in his base think can exist again.

[CKwi88]

(06-02-2017, 09:33 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Oh, I don't underestimate it at all. We have been sliding for years in the eyes of the world, and with this announcement we have told the world that we are no longer going to be the leaders of the western world. Flat out. If you understand the policy behind all of this then it is plain that this was not about money at all, this was about nationalist, isolationist ideals. It's what his base wanted, it's what he said he would do, and it doesn't matter how much this is going to harm us on the international stage he was going to keep the promise to them, even if they are in the minority.

It will be interesting to see what country or countries step into the leadership role that we are abandoning. While European powers like France and Germany seem poised to be the new leaders of the western world, countries will start (if they haven't already) cozying up to powers like Russia and China.

I still believe that this is an extremely short sighted move by the administration. But I'm hopeful that it can be remedied in future elections.