Alabama Court Awards Fetus the Right to Sue

[*bfine32*]

(03-11-2019, 02:56 PM)Nately120 Wrote: It won't be equal until men find a way to get pregnant.  And then it still won't be equal because men won't want to get pregnant.

And a woman shouldn't have 100% control over their child until she can find a way to get pregnant on her own.

No one argument is more valid or definitive than the other.

[*Nately120*]

(03-11-2019, 03:02 PM)bfine32 Wrote: And a woman shouldn't have 100% control over their child until she can find a way to get pregnant on her own.

No one argument is more valid or definitive than the other.

Women can get pregnant on their own with sperm men have voluntarily sold.  I don't know the legalities of paying a woman to be a surrogate but it's a thing, too.  Taking the personal initiative to enter into the process of  reproducing with a non-compensated member of the opposite sex creates more of a fluid dyad in which both participants yield total control.

[*bfine32*]

(03-11-2019, 03:23 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Women can get pregnant on their own with sperm men have voluntarily sold.  I don't know the legalities of paying a woman to be a surrogate but it's a thing, too.  Taking the personal initiative to enter into the process of  reproducing with a non-compensated member of the opposite sex creates more of a fluid dyad in which both participants yield total control.

Of course none of that is getting pregnant on her own. The male sperm is required. But I think we both knew we weren't talking about abortions of children that are the result of artificial insemination.

[*Nately120*]

(03-11-2019, 03:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Of course none of that is getting pregnant on her own. The male sperm is required. But I think we both knew we weren't talking about abortions of children that are the result of artificial insemination.

Meh, hopefully someday we find a way for a man to house his own fetus so we can see how many pro life males enjoy the free n easy process of pregnancy and childbirth. 

Lord help us if we have to stomach this process that gives women control over the precious sperm we shoulda blew into a dirty sock much longer.

[fredtoast]

(03-11-2019, 01:59 PM)bfine32 Wrote: No one with an ounce of rationality thinks a man should be able to force a woman to have an abortion;

(03-11-2019, 02:29 PM)bfine32 Wrote: He's not. It's an act they agree to, but only one can legally dismiss the consequences. I thought liberals were for equal rights.

Now I am confused.

You say a woman is free to avoid the consequences by getting an abortion, then you complain that a man should be allowed to avoid the consequences.

So how is that NOT suggesting that a man should be allowed to force an abortion?

How exactly do you suggest this should work?

[*bfine32*]

(03-11-2019, 03:40 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Meh, hopefully someday we find a way for a man to house his own fetus so we can see how many pro life males enjoy the free n easy process of pregnancy and childbirth. 

Lord help us if we have to stomach this process that gives women control over the precious sperm we shoulda blew into a dirty sock much longer.

It's actually a Pro Choice stance. It's just giving the man and woman a choice. If either/both want the child then it should be allowed to be born and raised. If neither wants it then unfortunately, they abort the child.

[GMDino]

(03-11-2019, 04:10 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It's actually a Pro Choice stance. It's just giving the man and woman a choice. If either/both want the child then it should be allowed to be born and raised. If neither wants it then unfortunately, they abort the child.

Sorry.  It can't be that way and be "equal" unless its if either/neither want it.

[*Nately120*]

(03-11-2019, 04:10 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It's actually a Pro Choice stance. It's just giving the man and woman a choice. If either/both want the child then it should be allowed to be born and raised. If neither wants it then unfortunately, they abort the child.

Just play it safe and knock up a woman who is pro life. She will be honored to be your incubator.

[fredtoast]

(03-11-2019, 04:10 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It's actually a Pro Choice stance. It's just giving the man and woman a choice. If either/both want the child then it should be allowed to be born and raised. If neither wants it then unfortunately, they abort the child.

So basically you don't really care about the man's rights.  You are fine with the man not getting his way if he wants an abortion and the mother does not.  

Instead you are just anti-abortion.

If this is the way you feel then why all the squealing about the man not being able to walk away?  Sure sounded like you wanted men to have that option.

[Benton]

(03-11-2019, 01:49 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If you will notice, not one guy who cries about how "unfair" it is ever complains about not being able to get pregnant and go through a pregnancy himself.  Instead all they want is the power to tell a woman what to do with her own body.

There have been thousands of post devoted to this argument over the years here, and not once has a guy cried about the lack of research on how to allow men to get pregnant or be able to develop a fetus outside of the woman's body.

These men don't really want "fair".  Instead they want a power over the woman's body without any diminution their current rights or responsibilities. 

Ok.

That still doesn't really detract from the point. But, ok.

[Benton]

(03-11-2019, 02:22 PM)Nately120 Wrote: No man is forced to impregnate a woman. 

Under normal circumstances, no one is forcing her to get impregnated.

Things happen.

The issue is what rights and responsibilities there are after things happen. ("Things" in this instance is a baby in the belly). The guy has no rights, but equal (and sometimes more) responsibility under the law. 

[*Nately120*]

(03-11-2019, 04:38 PM)Benton Wrote: Under normal circumstances, no one is forcing her to get impregnated.

Things happen.

The issue is what rights and responsibilities there are after things happen. ("Things" in this instance is a baby in the belly). The guy has no rights, but equal (and sometimes more) responsibility under the law. 

I always figured it's fair that the woman gets to make the choice and the man gets off easy because he doesn't have to be pregnant and have a human being erupt from within him.  I figured there was an unspoken rule of "That which you leave in my body is mine."  That makes me think of when The Million Dollar Man used to stuff money down in the mouths of jobbers he beat up.

[*bfine32*]

(03-11-2019, 04:25 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So basically you don't really care about the man's rights.  You are fine with the man not getting his way if he wants an abortion and the mother does not.  

Instead you are just anti-abortion.

If this is the way you feel then why all the squealing about the man not being able to walk away?  Sure sounded like you wanted men to have that option.

When you start injecting insults such as "squealing" ect and telling me what my stance is...I know the time for rational discussion with you has come to an end.

Who knows maybe Brad will stop by; you 2 can discuss it further.

[*bfine32*]

(03-11-2019, 04:42 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I always figured it's fair that the woman gets to make the choice and the man gets off easy because he doesn't have to be pregnant and have a human being erupt from within him.  I figured there was an unspoken rule of "That which you leave in my body is mine."  That makes me think of when The Million Dollar Man used to stuff money down in the mouths of jobbers he beat up.

So is it fair or not? You seem to be going back and forth on this point.

[fredtoast]

(03-11-2019, 04:38 PM)Benton Wrote: The issue is what rights and responsibilities there are after things happen. ("Things" in this instance is a baby in the belly). The guy has no rights, but equal (and sometimes more) responsibility under the law. 

The guy has ZERO responsibility unless the child is born.  A pregnant woman can not force the father to pay for an abortion.


If the child is born then the father has equal rights to seek custody of that child and the mother has equal responsibility to support the child.

The only right a man does not have is the right to force the woman to have an abortion.

[*Nately120*]

(03-11-2019, 04:44 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So is it fair or not? You seem to be going back and forth on this point.

It's fair and it's not fair.  As much as I wish the miracle of human life were as simple as deciding which Supertramp album is best (it's Breakfast in America, btw), it just isn't an easy black and white situation.  

If we invest more in science perhaps we can make it so women don't have to carry and birth living creatures.  Honestly, this old way seems quite antiquated and when you try to apply modern developments and mindsets to something that has been going on for a bazillion years you are bound to run into issues.

If women having control over their bodies ain't a man's cup o' tea I'd tell him to get a turban and move to the Middle East...or something.  

[fredtoast]

(03-11-2019, 04:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: When you start injecting insults such as "squealing" ect and telling me what my stance is...I know the time for rational discussion with you has come to an end.

So sorry my little snowflake.  I forgot how sensitive you were and how you want to dish out the snark and insults but run away when anyone responds in kind.

(03-11-2019, 11:53 AM)bfine32 Wrote:  I often fail to appreciate the comprehension level of a few in this forum.

(03-11-2019, 01:16 PM)bfine32 Wrote:  I may be required to start drawing pictures in future dialog.

(03-11-2019, 01:34 PM)bfine32 Wrote:  This is good to know counselor.

(03-11-2019, 01:59 PM)bfine32 Wrote: No one with an ounce of rationality thinks a man should be able to force a woman to have an abortion; 

[*bfine32*]

(03-11-2019, 05:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So sorry my little snowflake.  I forgot how sensitive you were and how you want to dish out the snark and insults but run away when anyone responds in kind.

That was simply me accepting responsibility for your confusion. I thought it was quite magnanimous that I refrained for calling you a simpleton.  

[Benton]

(03-11-2019, 04:45 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The guy has ZERO responsibility unless the child is born.  

So does the woman.

I agree, if something does not exist, no one is responsible for it.

That's never really been the issue, though. The issue is: if one parent wants responsibility, do they have the right to force the other party to take some form of responsibility. Right now, only one half can force the other side to do anything, and the other half has no recourse.

Quote:A pregnant woman can not force the father to pay for an abortion.



If the child is born then the father has equal rights to seek custody of that child and the mother has equal responsibility to support the child.

The only right a man does not have is the right to force the woman to have an abortion.

The father has equal right to seek custody. Nothing is automatic, other than a legal obligation to bear ... at least... half the cost. Heck, the guy may not even get any rights and still have to pay half the cost.

My son isn't biologically mine. I met him when he was three. His bio dad has zero rights, but he's been obligated to pay child support and 50% of all medical bills. Why is he obligated? Because he went to court to sue for rights (honestly, it was mostly to sue for the ability to claim him on taxes at least every other year), and instead he ended up with a payment plan and no parental rights (which, admittedly, was fine with us as he never paid anything and pretty well disappeared after that).

Guys have very little guaranteed, but they have a lot obligated. 

[GMDino]

I was going to post about Georgia's new (crazy) abortion ban, but this is more interesting.

A Twitter account for an anti-abortion movie (@UnplannedMovie) was promoted earlier today by the official account of the Vice President of the United States (@VP)

The account is now tweeting out slogans for the lunatic Qanon conspiracy theory (WWG1WGA) pic.twitter.com/je2GXykh6b

— Judd Legum (@JuddLegum) April 1, 2019

 


There's a whole thread there.