Alabama Court Awards Fetus the Right to Sue

[*bfine32*]

(05-09-2019, 01:50 PM)GMDino Wrote: Meanwhile an eleven year old gets raped and impregnated in Ohio and she has no option but to carry it to term.  Because they care about "children".

So sad.

Sounds terrible. Do you have a link to this story?

[GMDino]

(05-09-2019, 04:03 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Sounds terrible. Do you have a link to this story?

https://buckeyestate.news/2019/05/03/police-ohio-man-raped-11-year-old-who-is-now-pregnant/?fbclid=IwAR0Yi2vWaiv5Z15e7jE5OLCHJuD74noEMQRSYssTZ-wTpzCyqgEboY_QjP0

https://metro.co.uk/2019/05/08/girl-11-forced-keep-baby-conceived-rape-juan-leon-gomez-9439635/?fbclid=IwAR054iVsCm6Okfp2xv7iqRI3EG0v8jDTVaUc6MLdeu7-2tAMYFVLASfQ6dY

Eleven.  Raped.

Forced to carry to term.

Forced.

[fredtoast]

(05-09-2019, 04:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: We human life begins may be subjective to you, but I assume you were not a Biology Major.

A tree begins its life as a seed, but that does not mean a seed is a tree.

A fertilized egg is not a human.  It is not a child.  It is not a person.  It has no identity.  It has not thoughts.  It has no brain.

(05-09-2019, 04:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The only way you can consider it not to be a human life is if you advocated terminating for simple convenience.

No.  I don't consider it a "human life" because it is not a human. 

[*bfine32*]

(05-09-2019, 04:25 PM)fredtoast Wrote: A tree begins its life as a seed, but that does not mean a seed is a tree.

A fertilized egg is not a human.  It is not a child.  It is not a person.  It has no identity.  It has not thoughts.  It has no brain.


No.  I don't consider it a "human life" because it is not a human. 

Okey Doke Fred.

[*bfine32*]

(05-09-2019, 04:11 PM)GMDino Wrote: https://buckeyestate.news/2019/05/03/police-ohio-man-raped-11-year-old-who-is-now-pregnant/?fbclid=IwAR0Yi2vWaiv5Z15e7jE5OLCHJuD74noEMQRSYssTZ-wTpzCyqgEboY_QjP0

https://metro.co.uk/2019/05/08/girl-11-forced-keep-baby-conceived-rape-juan-leon-gomez-9439635/?fbclid=IwAR054iVsCm6Okfp2xv7iqRI3EG0v8jDTVaUc6MLdeu7-2tAMYFVLASfQ6dY

Eleven.  Raped.

Forced to carry to term.

Forced.

First, I've always said abortion should be an option in cases involving a crime and if these Bills provide no such previsions the legislature should be ashamed and should be challenged in court.  

Secondly how do we know she is forced, forced to keep the child? Perhaps she wants to.  Seems less misleading wording would be "abortion is not an option".

[GMDino]

(05-09-2019, 05:32 PM)bfine32 Wrote: First, I've always said abortion should be an option in cases involving a crime and if these Bills provide no such previsions the legislature should be ashamed and should be challenged in court.  

Secondly how do we know she is forced, forced to keep the child? Perhaps she wants to.  Seems less misleading wording would be "abortion is not an option".

We don't "know" anything more than an eleven year old girl was raped and is pregnant and has no choice.

And that that is awful.

But some think the sperm and egg connection is more important than the eleven year old....so here we are.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-09-2019, 05:32 PM)bfine32 Wrote: First, I've always said abortion should be an option in cases involving a crime and if these Bills provide no such previsions the legislature should be ashamed and should be challenged in court.  

Secondly how do we know she is forced, forced to keep the child? Perhaps she wants to.  Seems less misleading wording would be "abortion is not an option".

Perhaps she does want to. But, should an 11 year old child be making that decision? In my opinion, no. Should other people outside of her family be making that decision for them? Again in my opinion, no.

I think in this situation, the decision on what to do should be left to the family without outside influence from me, you, or others based upon our beliefs.

[GMDino]

(05-10-2019, 11:24 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Perhaps she does want to. But, should an 11 year old child be making that decision?  In my opinion, no. Should other people outside of her family be making that decision for them?  Again in my opinion, no.

I think in this situation, the decision on what to do should be left to the family without outside influence from me, you, or others based upon our beliefs.

Well some think the new abortion law doesn't go far enough.  In fact they demand a procedure that doesn't exist...

https://www.statenews.org/post/ohio-legislature-considering-abortion-bill-more-restrictive-heartbeat-bill

Quote:A new bill would ban most private insurance coverage for abortions. But opponents say it would also ban effective methods of birth control. 


[/url]One fifth of the representatives in the House have signed on to [url=https://www.scribd.com/document/409054058/House-Bill-182]a bill sponsored by Republican John Becker that would prohibit most insurance companies from offering coverage for abortion services.



“The intent is to save lives and reduce the cost of employers and employees health care insurance," Becker says.


The bill would ban nontherapeutic abortions that include "drugs or devices used to prevent the implantation of a fertilized ovum.” 


And Becker says the bill also speaks to coverage of ectopic or tubal pregnancies where the fertilized egg attaches outside of the womb.


“Part of that treatment would be removing that embryo from the fallopian tube and reinserting it in the uterus so that is defined as not an abortion under this bill," Becker explains.


“That doesn’t exist in the realm of treatment for ectopic pregnancy. You can’t just re-implant. It’s not a medical thing," says Jaime Miracle, deputy director of NARAL Pro-Choice Ohio. 


She says, under this bill, women would have to wait until their very lives were in danger to get an abortion in the case of an ectopic pregnancy. 


“This bill will have grave impacts on Ohio’s infant and maternal mortality rate," Miracle says.


And she says that’s not all. She says it will ban insurance from covering popular methods of birth control.


“Birth control pills, IUD’s and other methods of birth control like that – the bill states that any birth control that could act to stop a fertilized egg from implanting in the uterus is considered an abortion under this bill," Miracle says.


Becker insists his bill does not target birth control.


“When you get into the contraception and abortifacients, that’s clearly not my area of expertise but I suppose, if it were true that what we typically known as the pill would be classified as an abortifacient, then I would imagine the drug manufacturers would reformulate it so it’s no longer an abortifacient and is strictly a contraceptive," Becker says.


This bill just had its first hearing in committee. If it goes further, supporters, opponents and medical professionals will testify for or against it. 



Less than a month ago, Ohio lawmakers passed and Gov. Mike DeWine signed a law that bans abortion as early as six weeks into a pregnancy - at the point a fetal heartbeat can be detected. If this legislation goes through as written, it would go even further.

[*bfine32*]

(05-10-2019, 09:06 AM)GMDino Wrote: We don't "know" anything more than an eleven year old girl was raped and is pregnant and has no choice.

And that that is awful.

But some think the sperm and egg connection is more important than the eleven year old....so here we are.

Exactly and that's why stating "She is forced to have an abortion" is fake news misleading.  It is beyond awful; it is appalling. I don't even know if an 11 year old can carry a child to term. IF the house Bill doesn't have provisions for pregnancy caused due to rape/incest then I've got to assume it has a clause for medical Condition of the mother.

(05-10-2019, 11:24 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Perhaps she does want to. But, should an 11 year old child be making that decision?  In my opinion, no. Should other people outside of her family be making that decision for them?  Again in my opinion, no.

I think in this situation, the decision on what to do should be left to the family without outside influence from me, you, or others based upon our beliefs.

No, an 11 year old shouldn't make that decision no more than she should make the decision to abort. And I agree adult family members should be making the call. However, in this case there appears to be some extenuating circumstances. If I read the article correctly she was already out on the streets; so perhaps this girl's mother might not be the best person to make a rational decision.

[GMDino]

(05-10-2019, 12:42 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Exactly and that's why stating "She is forced to have an abortion" is fake news misleading.  It is beyond awful; it is appalling. I don't even know if an 11 year old can carry a child to term. IF the house Bill doesn't have provisions for pregnancy caused due to rape/incest then I've got to assume it has a clause for medical Condition of the mother.


No, an 11 year old shouldn't make that decision no more than she should make the decision to abort. And I agree adult family members should be making the call. However, in this case there appears to be some extenuating circumstances. If I read the article correctly she was already out on the streets; so perhaps this girl's mother might not be the best person to make a rational decision.

I'm assuming you meant "forced to have the baby".  And she is being force.  The law does not make exceptions for rape.

The only exception is save the mother's life.


When will that decision be made?  8 weeks? 4 months?

An eleven year old rape victim s forced to carry her rapist's child to term unless she is going to die herself.

It's a GOP wet dream.

[*bfine32*]

(05-10-2019, 03:10 PM)GMDino Wrote: I'm assuming you meant "forced to have the baby".  And she is being force.  The law does not make exceptions for rape.

The only exception is save the mother's life.


When will that decision be made?  8 weeks? 4 months?

An eleven year old rape victim s forced to carry her rapist's child to term unless she is going to die herself.

It's a GOP wet dream.

We don't know if she's being forced as being forced to do somethings means doing it against your will. It just sounds more irrational if you say it that way. The HB is too restrictive if it makes no provisions for rape or health other than Mother's death IMO and folks that passed it/voted for it should be ashamed. But when we send out fake news like "She is forced to have a child" we do nothing but embolden those that like to use the term fake news. Much like calling such measures a GOP wet dream.

[GMDino]

(05-10-2019, 04:23 PM)bfine32 Wrote: We don't know if she's being forced as being forced to do somethings means doing it against your will. It just sounds more irrational if you say it that way. The HB is too restrictive if it makes no provisions for rape or health other than Mother's death IMO and folks that passed it/voted for it should be ashamed. But when we send out fake news like "She is forced to have a child" we do nothing but embolden those that like to use the term fake news. Much like calling such measures a GOP wet dream.

Right.

She HAS a choice.

She can have the bay because she (as an eleven year old rape victim) WANTS to have the baby of her own (unabridged by anyone else's opinon) free will...

OR

She can have the baby because no matter what she wants the state says that she can't have an abortion and she is forced to cary to term unless she herself will die.

"choice".

[*bfine32*]

(05-13-2019, 08:56 AM)GMDino Wrote: Right.

She HAS a choice.

She can have the bay because she (as an eleven year old rape victim) WANTS to have the baby of her own (unabridged by anyone else's opinon) free will...

OR

She can have the baby because no matter what she wants the state says that she can't have an abortion and she is forced to cary to term unless she herself will die.

"choice".

You could have just stopped at Right. We have no proof that she is being forced to have this baby. 

[GMDino]

(05-13-2019, 11:38 AM)bfine32 Wrote: You could have just stopped at Right. We have no proof that she is being forced to have this baby. 

It doesn't matter if she want to have the baby.

She has no choice but to have it.

No pregnant woman there does unless they are dying.

Quit being obtuse.

[*bfine32*]

(05-13-2019, 11:54 AM)GMDino Wrote: It doesn't matter if she want to have the baby.

She has no choice but to have it.

No pregnant woman there does unless they are dying.

Quit being obtuse.

Maybe , just maybe I should have said a more accurate title would be "abortion is not an option......hey wait a minute:

bfine32 Wrote:Secondly how do we know she is forced, forced to keep the child? Perhaps she wants to.  Seems less misleading wording would be "abortion is not an option".

But saying an 11 year old is being forced is employing a logical fallacy known as: "appeal to emotion". I get why you and the article writer do it. No different than a Pro Choicer taking issue with terms such as "ripped from the womb" ect...

We can probably end all this silliness by asking one simple question: If this girl wanted to abort this baby today could she?
I'll work on that obtuse part. 

[GMDino]

(05-13-2019, 12:09 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Maybe , just maybe I should have said a more accurate title would be "abortion is not an option......hey wait a minute:


But saying an 11 year old is being forced is employing a logical fallacy known as: "appeal to emotion". I get why you and the article writer do it. No different than a Pro Choicer taking issue with terms such as "ripped from the womb" ect...

We can probably end all this silliness by asking one simple question: If this girl wanted to abort this baby today could she?
I'll work on that obtuse part. 

No.  She cannot get an abortion. At all.  Unless she is dying.

She is forced by the state to carry to term whether she wants to...or not.  So she has no real "choice". 

Every other response to your nonsense will get me banned...again. 

[*bfine32*]

(05-13-2019, 12:33 PM)GMDino Wrote: No.  She cannot get an abortion. At all.  Unless she is dying.

She is forced by the state to carry to term whether she wants to...or not.  So she has no real "choice". 

Every other response to your nonsense will get me banned...again. 

Oh I didn't know the bill went into affect yet..

Me and my obtuseness. 

[GMDino]

(05-13-2019, 12:40 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Oh I didn't know the bill went into affect yet..

Me and my obtuseness. 

Stuff it literal man.

It's the law.  Signed by the governor.

Christ you're nothing more than a gadfly looking for the one way to be "right" while claiming everyone else is not saying things exactly the way you want them to be said.

It's the goddamn law.  And yes, it will be in effect in a few weeks.

And yes that means she (and others) will be forced to go to full term whether they want to or not.

How about some sympathy for an eleven year old rape victim who has the unfortunate luck of living in a state that care more about her rapist;s spawn than her?

So yes she can get her abortion right now.  Right this second.  Probably.  The state may try to stop that too.  Who knows since the men there seem to know more about it than the women.  But soon she will not be able to.  Better? 

Keep ignoring how women are being treated so you can be literal for now.  It's a good look.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-08-2019, 07:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote: At conception. 

If life begins at conception and we're all born sinners, how does that work?

[*bfine32*]

(05-13-2019, 03:59 PM)GMDino Wrote: Stuff it literal man.

It's the law.  Signed by the governor.

Christ you're nothing more than a gadfly looking for the one way to be "right" while claiming everyone else is not saying things exactly the way you want them to be said.

It's the goddamn law.  And yes, it will be in effect in a few weeks.

And yes that means she (and others) will be forced to go to full term whether they want to or not.

How about some sympathy for an eleven year old rape victim who has the unfortunate luck of living in a state that care more about her rapist;s spawn than her?

So yes she can get her abortion right now.  Right this second.  Probably.  The state may try to stop that too.  Who knows since the men there seem to know more about it than the women.  But soon she will not be able to.  Better? 

Keep ignoring how women are being treated so you can be literal for now.  It's a good look.

Remember that appeal for emotion fallacy I pointed to earlier


You could have just said you were mistaken instead of busting a spring.

I have not "ignored how women are being treated" and have said those that voted/passed a measure that does include a rape/incest clause should be ashamed of themselves. 

GMDino Wrote:Every other response to your nonsense will get me banned...again.  

Something tells me you're good.