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So, not sure how many of you are aware of the goings on in my neck of the woods, but across the mountain in my wife's hometown there has been an ongoing situation. There are several parks that have statues of Civil War generals of the Confederacy, namely R.E. Lee and Andrew "Stonewall" Jackson. The city has been having ongoing discussions about what to do with these statues and parks, regarding removal, renaming, etc. This has caused a lot of tension in the city.
This has resulted in a KKK rally in the city on 08 July that honestly should have just been left alone. The counter-protesters outnumbered the KKK members, and the end result was not good for anyone. But, since they got the attention they were looking for, they decided to make another go at it on a larger scale by planning a rally, today, in Emancipation Park, formerly Lee Park.
This has resulted in lots of issues leading up to the event. Airbnb has cancelled bookings in connection with the event. The city attempted to get the rally moved to a different park that is more out of the main thoroughfare and larger under the guise of safety and security by saying they would only approve a permit if it was moved there. Meanwhile, granting permits to counter-protesters at nearby parks. This resulted in the Rutherford Institute and the ACLU siding with the Unite the Right folks and bringing it to a legal battle. This battle was won in federal court and so the event will take place in Emancipation Park.
Side note, for anyone that tries to claim the ACLU is leftist, here is but one of many examples of the organization fighting for the civil liberties of all people.
Now, there have been a couple of events that have taken place leading up tot he rally this morning. Yesterday, there was a confrontation in a Walmart parking lot. But the bigger event yesterday was a march on the grounds of UVA last night, that erupted into violence. Having seen various videos, pictures, and hearing first hand accounts of what went on, it's a cluster ****. Plain and simple. Who threw the first punch isn't clear, but it wasn't pretty, and today isn't likely to be, either.
There hadn't been anything on here about this, but it is hitting the national news and there may be more to come since the ARNG is on standby for today's event. I just wanted to provide a local's perspective and a more comprehensive background that is based on reality and not what you might see from some outlets.
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Report from one of my pastors: the alt-right protesters have attacked the counter-protesters and the clergy. Police have not yet intervened.
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(08-12-2017, 12:09 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Report from one of my pastors: the alt-right protesters have attacked the counter-protesters and the clergy. Police have not yet intervened.
I am all for everyone having the right to speak. Only way to determine how evil/crazy they are.
Sadly they also gain followers because there is always someone equally evil/crazy who feels isolate and wants to join a like minded group.
And in the current version of the US violence against your "enemies" is seen as not only right but the "good old days".
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Personally, I think the statues should remain because they are part of history.
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(08-12-2017, 12:24 PM)Goalpost Wrote: Personally, I think the statues should remain because they are part of history.
I agree if those statues are on a battlefield like Lee's statute at Gettysburg which is hallowed ground.
But if it is just some random park that a bunch of white supremacists 100 years ago decided to put a statue of a Confederate at, then I could care less if they tear it down.
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Chanting Nazi slogans, wearing shirts with Hitler quotes on them. Also chanting "f--- you, f----ts".
(08-12-2017, 12:24 PM)Goalpost Wrote: Personally, I think the statues should remain because they are part of history.
I disagree. I don't see a reason to idolize enemies of the union just because it was part of our history.
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(08-12-2017, 12:58 PM)Millhouse Wrote: I agree if those statues are on a battlefield like Lee's statute at Gettysburg which is hallowed ground.
But if it is just some random park that a bunch of white supremacists 100 years ago decided to put a statue of a Confederate at, then I could care less if they tear it down.
So many monuments also privately paid for by wealthy pro secession Americans after the war. There was a park in Baltimore named after Lee because some rich family that was fans of his gave it to the city and said they had to name it after him. At the time, one of the family members was part of the city department of parks and rec and opposed integration of the parks and pools. The city had since renamed it.
It wouldn't be fitting for a northern city that hosted the largest free black population during the war to have a park with that name
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Are you guys close to civil war ?
Seeing nazis in America is really weird from an european view.
And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
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The POTUS has spoken!
Good message!
Better than "in the good old days we could punch people"!
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(08-12-2017, 02:43 PM)GMDino Wrote: The POTUS has spoken!
Good message!
Better than "in the good old days we could punch people"!
You can still punch some people. It's just more heavily frowned upon, these days. 
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(08-12-2017, 02:43 PM)GMDino Wrote: The POTUS has spoken!
Good message!
Better than "in the good old days we could punch people"!
These words ring a little hollow when the alt-right crowd has been shouting "heil Trump."
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(08-12-2017, 03:09 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: These words ring a little hollow when the alt-right crowd has been shouting "heil Trump."
And wearing MAGA hats.
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(08-12-2017, 02:16 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: Are you guys close to civil war ?
Seeing nazis in America is really weird from an european view.
Nah, we've always had some Nazi here. The only difference was in the past people would just ignore them and they'd go slink back into whatever hole they crawled from once they were done. Now anytime they show up somewhere, "counter-protestors" (read: people who showed up to attack protestors) show up, big skirmishes happen, and it gets on the national news.
Then other people see protestors being physically attacked, and they sympathize a lot more than if they were just being ignored and left to rot in racist obscurity. That leads to more people joining to defend their first amendment rights, people who would have normally just stayed at home. Then people getting attacked while protesting just solidifies in their mind that they were right to protest in the first place, making them "victims" and just adding more fuel on the fire.
The "counter-protestors" are doing more to advance the cause of these disgusting people they are attacking in order to stop, than the people themselves could ever do.
- - - - - - - -
I'd also point out that the US has a huge German population. Last I knew it was the #1 origin of ancestors for the entire country. Germany, Ireland, Africa, in that order. A lot of people in the US supported Germany in WWI until they started torpedoing everything and killing US citizens. Even in the 1930s, we had Nazi summer camps and such. That more or less ended when Japan bombed Pearl Harbor and then a couple days later Germany and Italy declared war on the US.
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I'm generally against taking down most of these Southern Civil War leaders statues (Except for Bedford... toss that one in the Mariannas Trench). But I can't side with these hate-mongering dudes. SO, as usual, I'll just sit on the sidelines.
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(08-12-2017, 03:19 PM)Belsnickel Wrote:
Huh...I thought that was a Muslim thing?
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(08-12-2017, 02:16 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: Are you guys close to civil war ?
Seeing nazis in America is really weird from an european view.
Feels that way sometimes. I'd say the division here is greater than any time since Reconstruction.
I don't really care about statues of Robert E Lee. He was a wealthy general. I do feel as though the average man who fought for the Confederacy, who didn't own anything, and never met a man who owned a slave should be honored the same way we honor any other veterans in the country. I can see why Southerners Revere that era. Those are their ancestors who fought and died for their homeland. It's just a damn shame that over the years white supremacists, and rest of these dickheads have hijacked their symbols. I was certainly against the Confederate flag flying over the statehouse of South Carolina. I have no problem with it being flown at civil war memorials though.
I must add that the sight of these armed "militia" men at this rally is sorta disturbing to me. All in all people need to lighten the **** up in this country. Go have a drink and get laid or something... It's really not that bad.
I'm gonna break every record they've got. I'm tellin' you right now. I don't know how I'm gonna do it, but it's goin' to get done.
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(08-12-2017, 03:22 PM)Belsnickel Wrote:
This is what I was alluding to in the last paragraph of my post.
I'm gonna break every record they've got. I'm tellin' you right now. I don't know how I'm gonna do it, but it's goin' to get done.
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