Alt-right rallies in Charlottesville, VA

[GMDino]

(08-25-2017, 09:04 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: You want the President of our country to be required to  have to reply to every single random jerkoff and a-hole out there?

I thought you didn't want him tweeting?

That's the wrong interpretation:

The POTUS has tweeted about each and every person that he believes slighted, criticized or "failed" him.  He SHOULD stop doing that...but he hasn't stopped.

However he has NOT responded to a Nazi who called him out personally AND attacked his daughter and son-in-law at the same time.

Odd.

Now if he HAD stopped all the personal, name calling attacks before this I'd let it go.  But he just held (another) campaign rally this week and still didn't saying anything about it.

Odd.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(08-25-2017, 09:12 AM)GMDino Wrote: That's the wrong interpretation:

The POTUS has tweeted about each and every person that he believes slighted, criticized or "failed" him.  He SHOULD stop doing that...but he hasn't stopped.

However he has NOT responded to a Nazi who called him out personally AND attacked his daughter and son-in-law at the same time.

Odd.

Now if he HAD stopped all the personal, name calling attacks before this I'd let it go.  But he just held (another) campaign rally this week and still didn't saying anything about it.

Odd.

So basically, you want him to tweet about everything he doesn't tweet about, and don't want him to tweet about anything he does tweet about, all while complaining he should stop tweeting... and you're going to be shitty about it until you get your way, and if you do somehow get your way, you'll just find something else to be shitty about.

Got it.

[Belsnickel]

(08-25-2017, 09:25 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: So basically, you want him to tweet about everything he doesn't tweet about, and don't want him to tweet about anything he does tweet about, all while complaining he should stop tweeting... and you're going to be shitty about it until you get your way, and if you do somehow get your way, you'll just find something else to be shitty about.

Got it.

I think one of the big reasons that a lot of people have looked at Trump's reaction to Charlottesville as an oddity has been because it didn't fit his style. When he attacks people and ideologies, he attacks them bluntly and quickly. He doesn't pull any punches when he is attacked, but he hasn't responded to a very public attack in this instance. His response to the racism and violence was scripted and it was delayed. In other words, his response to what happened in Charlottesville is what we see from him when he is being told he should do something he doesn't want to do. It's the difference between his Afghanistan speech and his rally in Phoenix.

When you look at it in context with the rest of his communication styling, it makes you wonder what his feelings actually are on the matter.

[*jason*]

(08-25-2017, 09:12 AM)GMDino Wrote: That's the wrong interpretation:

The POTUS has tweeted about each and every person that he believes slighted, criticized or "failed" him.  He SHOULD stop doing that...but he hasn't stopped.

However he has NOT responded to a Nazi who called him out personally AND attacked his daughter and son-in-law at the same time.

Odd.

Now if he HAD stopped all the personal, name calling attacks before this I'd let it go.  But he just held (another) campaign rally this week and still didn't saying anything about it.

Odd.

I doubt the president even heard what that choade said about his daughter and son in law as the remarks we're on Vice and not FOX News.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(08-25-2017, 09:57 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I think one of the big reasons that a lot of people have looked at Trump's reaction to Charlottesville as an oddity has been because it didn't fit his style. When he attacks people and ideologies, he attacks them bluntly and quickly. He doesn't pull any punches when he is attacked, but he hasn't responded to a very public attack in this instance. His response to the racism and violence was scripted and it was delayed. In other words, his response to what happened in Charlottesville is what we see from him when he is being told he should do something he doesn't want to do. It's the difference between his Afghanistan speech and his rally in Phoenix.

When you look at it in context with the rest of his communication styling, it makes you wonder what his feelings actually are on the matter.

And my point is that people have been complaining the entire time he's been President so far because of his style, because they didn't like that he attacked people and did so bluntly. That he went off the cuff and talked nonsense rather than being prepared.

Then when he does that, those same people are upset because it wasn't his usual style, didn't attack, and he went scripted.

I don't care if people dislike something he does, have at it. (I know I have a good number of things I hate that he's done.) Just be consistent about it. The people who piss me off are the ones who bend and twist, making it so that no matter what he does, they will still complain about it. Just like when they wanted Comey fired, but then when Trump fired Comey, they went crazy. Then they're upset because he tweets, then upset because he doesn't tweet.

All I ask for is consistency. They need to find a stance they disagree with about the guy, and complain about that, but then if he does the opposite of that, don't suddenly start complaining about it instead. At that point they have to be happy with Trump's action because they were complaining when Trump didn't do it that way before. Otherwise it strips all semblance of legitimacy in their complaints and just makes them look like you're wanting to whine for the sake of constantly whining.

- - - - - - - -

Examples:

-I believe in Net Neutrality being important, so I cheered Obama when his administration secured that and I am pissed off that Trump's looks like it is going to shit on it.
-I don't think we should be in the Middle East anymore, so I didn't like either Obama or Trump sending more troops over there.
-I thought the Paris climate accords was a silly thing because we don't need to pay other countries billions of dollars in a non-binding agreement. We can just personally choose to pollute less as a country without giving others our money. So I was against Obama and for Trump on that.

If people were complaining about issues or stances, I can respect that, but no, a lot are just complaining about people regardless of the issues or stances. The hell does that accomplish?

[Belsnickel]

(08-25-2017, 10:08 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: And my point is that people have been complaining the entire time he's been President so far because of his style, because they didn't like that he attacked people and did so bluntly. That he went off the cuff and talked nonsense rather than being prepared.

Then when he does that, those same people are upset because it wasn't his usual style, didn't attack, and he went scripted.

I don't care if people dislike something he does, have at it. (I know I have a good number of things I hate that he's done.) Just be consistent about it. The people who piss me off are the ones who bend and twist, making it so that no matter what he does, they will still complain about it. Just like when they wanted Comey fired, but then when Trump fired Comey, they went crazy. Then they're upset because he tweets, then upset because he doesn't tweet.

All I ask for is consistency. They need to find a stance they disagree with about the guy, and complain about that, but then if he does the opposite of that, don't suddenly start complaining about it instead. At that point they have to be happy with Trump's action because they were complaining when Trump didn't do it that way before. Otherwise it strips all semblance of legitimacy in their complaints and just makes them look like you're wanting to whine for the sake of constantly whining.

- - - - - - - -

Examples:

-I believe in Net Neutrality being important, so I cheered Obama when his administration secured that and I am pissed off that Trump's looks like it is going to shit on it.
-I don't think we should be in the Middle East anymore, so I didn't like either Obama or Trump sending more troops over there.
-I thought the Paris climate accords was a silly thing because we don't need to pay other countries billions of dollars in a non-binding agreement. We can just personally choose to pollute less as a country without giving others our money. So I was against Obama and for Trump on that.

If people were complaining about issues or stances, I can respect that, but no, a lot are just complaining about people regardless of the issues or stances. The hell does that accomplish?

The issue here is that he makes his scripted statements, and then walks them back when he talks in his more blunt manner. So when it comes to this the real inconsistency is in his messaging. I get what you're saying, though, because the
re are a lot of gymnastic moves when it comes to trying to dislike Trump.

Truth be told, my biggest issue is I don't believe he has any actual agenda. I don't think he has any real policy positions and he doesn't know how government works. He knows how to campaign, but he doesn't know how to govern, and several of his appointments have not helped in that regard.

[GMDino]

(08-25-2017, 10:08 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: And my point is that people have been complaining the entire time he's been President so far because of his style, because they didn't like that he attacked people and did so bluntly. That he went off the cuff and talked nonsense rather than being prepared.

Then when he does that, those same people are upset because it wasn't his usual style, didn't attack, and he went scripted.

I don't care if people dislike something he does, have at it. (I know I have a good number of things I hate that he's done.) Just be consistent about it. The people who piss me off are the ones who bend and twist, making it so that no matter what he does, they will still complain about it. Just like when they wanted Comey fired, but then when Trump fired Comey, they went crazy. Then they're upset because he tweets, then upset because he doesn't tweet.

All I ask for is consistency. They need to find a stance they disagree with about the guy, and complain about that, but then if he does the opposite of that, don't suddenly start complaining about it instead. At that point they have to be happy with Trump's action because they were complaining when Trump didn't do it that way before. Otherwise it strips all semblance of legitimacy in their complaints and just makes them look like you're wanting to whine for the sake of constantly whining.

- - - - - - - -

Examples:

-I believe in Net Neutrality being important, so I cheered Obama when his administration secured that and I am pissed off that Trump's looks like it is going to shit on it.
-I don't think we should be in the Middle East anymore, so I didn't like either Obama or Trump sending more troops over there.
-I thought the Paris climate accords was a silly thing because we don't need to pay other countries billions of dollars in a non-binding agreement. We can just personally choose to pollute less as a country without giving others our money. So I was against Obama and for Trump on that.

If people were complaining about issues or stances, I can respect that, but no, a lot are just complaining about people regardless of the issues or stances. The hell does that accomplish?

The point is in there...it's just being missed.

*IF* he stopped doing it the other 98% of the time it would not seem to be a big deal that he's not doing it (attacking his critics) this time.

But since that statement was made the POTUS has continued to attack his critics/enemies but not that one.

It's not arguing his policies (whatever they end up being) it is, to use KellyAnne's words, trying to see what is in his heart.  

[*PhilHos*]

(08-25-2017, 10:08 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: And my point is that people have been complaining the entire time he's been President so far because of his style, because they didn't like that he attacked people and did so bluntly. That he went off the cuff and talked nonsense rather than being prepared.

Then when he does that, those same people are upset because it wasn't his usual style, didn't attack, and he went scripted.

I don't care if people dislike something he does, have at it. (I know I have a good number of things I hate that he's done.) Just be consistent about it. The people who piss me off are the ones who bend and twist, making it so that no matter what he does, they will still complain about it. Just like when they wanted Comey fired, but then when Trump fired Comey, they went crazy. Then they're upset because he tweets, then upset because he doesn't tweet.

All I ask for is consistency. They need to find a stance they disagree with about the guy, and complain about that, but then if he does the opposite of that, don't suddenly start complaining about it instead. At that point they have to be happy with Trump's action because they were complaining when Trump didn't do it that way before. Otherwise it strips all semblance of legitimacy in their complaints and just makes them look like you're wanting to whine for the sake of constantly whining.

- - - - - - - -

Examples:

-I believe in Net Neutrality being important, so I cheered Obama when his administration secured that and I am pissed off that Trump's looks like it is going to shit on it.
-I don't think we should be in the Middle East anymore, so I didn't like either Obama or Trump sending more troops over there.
-I thought the Paris climate accords was a silly thing because we don't need to pay other countries billions of dollars in a non-binding agreement. We can just personally choose to pollute less as a country without giving others our money. So I was against Obama and for Trump on that.

If people were complaining about issues or stances, I can respect that, but no, a lot are just complaining about people regardless of the issues or stances. The hell does that accomplish?

Exactly. No matter what Trump does, people will find a way to bash him. It's happened with every President since Bush ('W' - at least, that's when I really started getting into politics). But it still stupid to see.

(08-25-2017, 10:42 AM)GMDino Wrote: The point is in there...it's just being missed.

*IF* he stopped doing it the other 98% of the time it would not seem to be a big deal that he's not doing it (attacking his critics) this time.

But since that statement was made the POTUS has continued to attack his critics/enemies but not that one.

It's not arguing his policies (whatever they end up being) it is, to use KellyAnne's words, trying to see what is in his heart.  

If I could speak for TLL, I think he gets your point. His point is that no matter what you and many others will STILL find things to bash and hate on Trump.

[Belsnickel]

So changing gears a little, this is a piece from Esquire by Trae Crowder (of Liberal Redneck fame) on Confederate monuments and the battle flag: http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/news/a57184/confederate-statue-removal-reasons/

[GMDino]

(08-25-2017, 11:53 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Exactly. No matter what Trump does, people will find a way to bash him. It's happened with every President since Bush ('W' - at least, that's when I really started getting into politics). But it still stupid to see.


If I could speak for TLL, I think he gets your point. His point is that no matter what you and many others will STILL find things to bash and hate on Trump.

Oh, from that pov absolutely there will always be things about the man I cannot stand.  It's been that was for a decade or more though.

Him being POTUS just magnifies his many, many faults and shortcomings.

That doesn't lessen the truth about them.  

[*PhilHos*]

(08-25-2017, 12:13 PM)GMDino Wrote: That doesn't lessen the truth about them.  

There's definitely much to criticize the man about, but the constant harping on all of them and the ones that people make up about him only serve to dull the criticism to the point where it doesn't mean anything. Maybe that's part of his plan; maybe he's just fortunate, but I think critics need to narrow the focus of their criticism to those issues and things that have meaning - i.e. criticize his policies, but leave what he says on twitter alone.

[GMDino]

(08-25-2017, 12:22 PM)PhilHos Wrote: There's definitely much to criticize the man about, but the constant harping on all of them and the ones that people make up about him only serve to dull the criticism to the point where it doesn't mean anything. Maybe that's part of his plan; maybe he's just fortunate, but I think critics need to narrow the focus of their criticism to those issues and things that have meaning - i.e. criticize his policies, but leave what he says on twitter alone.

That's a shame...but he deserves it.  

He's POTUS...he should be acting like it.

Unfortunately he acts just like we all knew he would:  Exactly like he did before he was elected.  As a child.

Also, he has no policies.  At least none that he has explained.  He thinks he's still running Trump Industries and he can just say "Get rid of the filibuster" and then complain on twitter that no one did what he wanted, call them names and then go golfing.

Or he can say he has a great health care plan, offer no specifics, have a beer when "a" version passes the house and do nothing to help it get passed in the senate other than...complain on twitter that no one did what he wanted, call them names and then go golfing.

In the meantime he's running for office in 2020 already.  IMHO it's so he can go these "rallies", be himself and half all the adoration he never got from his daddy.

I just don't know what is sadder: Him for doing it or the people who still believe him and give it to him.

[*jason*]

(08-25-2017, 11:54 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: So changing gears a little, this is a piece from Esquire by Trae Crowder (of Liberal Redneck fame) on Confederate monuments and the battle flag: http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/news/a57184/confederate-statue-removal-reasons/

I read that yesterday. A good read. It touches on those that revere the battle flag for benign reasons. In modern times it gets lost on some people that a vast majority if Southerners didn't own slaves. Many lived their whole lives without ever knowing someone who did. People fought for the Confederacy for different reasons. Invading armies from the north passing thru; stealing supplies, food, crops. Burning property and crops. What's a guy to do?... I don't know where I'm going with this. Anyway... It wasn't a war of an army of slave owners fighting an army of abolitionists.

There is nothing inherently racist about the battle flag. Bastards over the last century and a half have stolen it though... So I guess it is now.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(08-25-2017, 12:37 PM)GMDino Wrote: I just don't know what is sadder: Him for doing it or the people who still believe him and give it to him.

Easy answer. People who hate him so much they spend 90% of their time obsessed over every single thing he says, everything he does, every tweet about him, every article about him, and make 10 threads and 20 meme posts a day about him.

Who dedicates that much time digitally stalking and obsessing over someone they hate? That can't be healthy.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-25-2017, 12:37 PM)GMDino Wrote: That's a shame...but he deserves it.  

He's POTUS...he should be acting like it.

Unfortunately he acts just like we all knew he would:  Exactly like he did before he was elected.  As a child.

Also, he has no policies.  At least none that he has explained.  He thinks he's still running Trump Industries and he can just say "Get rid of the filibuster" and then complain on twitter that no one did what he wanted, call them names and then go golfing.

Or he can say he has a great health care plan, offer no specifics, have a beer when "a" version passes the house and do nothing to help it get passed in the senate other than...complain on twitter that no one did what he wanted, call them names and then go golfing.

In the meantime he's running for office in 2020 already.  IMHO it's so he can go these "rallies", be himself and half all the adoration he never got from his daddy.

I just don't know what is sadder: Him for doing it or the people who still believe him and give it to him.

What you don't seem to realize is that by criticizing him 24/7, that criticism starts to lose all its meaning and even gives his supporters something to rally around. By harping on every, single negative Trump trait, word, or deed, when re-election rolls around, that the criticism is going to fall on deaf ears - and not just Trump supporter ears, either. Meaning there's a greater chance of him getting re-elected.

If you don't want him to be re-elected - and I know you don't - then stop being 100% critical of Trump. Focus on the negative policies and the egregious things he DOES. Who cares how he acts or what he says on twitter? Pick your battles. If everyone who wants someone other than Trump elected in 2020, guess what? He most likely won't be. There's still a good chance he won't be (depending on who the Democrat opposing him is), but you actually HELP him by being hypercritical.

[GMDino]

(08-25-2017, 01:25 PM)PhilHos Wrote: What you don't seem to realize is that by criticizing him 24/7, that criticism starts to lose all its meaning and even gives his supporters something to rally around. By harping on every, single negative Trump trait, word, or deed, when re-election rolls around, that the criticism is going to fall on deaf ears - and not just Trump supporter ears, either. Meaning there's a greater chance of him getting re-elected.

If you don't want him to be re-elected - and I know you don't - then stop being 100% critical of Trump. Focus on the negative policies and the egregious things he DOES. Who cares how he acts or what he says on twitter? Pick your battles. If everyone who wants someone other than Trump elected in 2020, guess what? He most likely won't be. There's still a good chance he won't be (depending on who the Democrat opposing him is), but you actually HELP him by being hypercritical.

Oh, is that all we have to do?

Like trying to explain Mexico won't pay for the wall?  That Trump doesn't have a health care plan? That Trump "talks to himself" about foreign policy because he's "smart"? that he won't "lock her up"?  

Those things?  Because no one cared.

How about how he lies more than anyone being tracked?  Provable lies.

His policy on...what?

Transgenders in the military maybe?  That was a tweet.

What has he done that a President should do that one could talk about?  He hasn't done anything except be his usual self.

If he's going to lie and act the fool every day he will get called out every day.

Speaking the truth about him should never stop.

His supporters don't believe it anyway...it's for those who might be starting to open their eyes that didn't vote last time.

[GMDino]

(08-25-2017, 01:16 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Easy answer. People who hate him so much they spend 90% of their time obsessed over every single thing he says, everything he does, every tweet about him, every article about him, and make 10 threads and 20 meme posts a day about him.

Who dedicates that much time digitally stalking and obsessing over someone they hate? That can't be healthy.

See the answer above...and stop reading my posts about him.

They will always be negative (99% of the time I guess).

It literally takes about 10 minutes to read the latest dumb thing he did and share it.

Usually within a thread already created about something dumb he did.

Maybe I'll just start threads about immigrants for a week and see how that goes? 

[*PhilHos*]

(08-25-2017, 01:33 PM)GMDino Wrote: Oh, is that all we have to do?

Pretty much, yeah.

(08-25-2017, 01:33 PM)GMDino Wrote: Like trying to explain Mexico won't pay for the wall?  That Trump doesn't have a health care plan? That Trump "talks to himself" about foreign policy because he's "smart"? that he won't "lock her up"?  

You don't need to explain anything to Trump. That's not your job. 
Trump doesn't need to have a health care plan, CONGRESS does.
Who cares who his foregin policy advisory is as long as he doesn't start an international incident?

(08-25-2017, 01:33 PM)GMDino Wrote: How about how he lies more than anyone being tracked?  Provable lies.

Every politician lies. Worry only about the lies that matter.

(08-25-2017, 01:33 PM)GMDino Wrote: His policy on...what?

On anything. When he puts forth legislation and you think its bad, criticize him then.

(08-25-2017, 01:33 PM)GMDino Wrote: Transgenders in the military maybe?  That was a tweet.

If he enacts a ban, then criticize him. But, if he tweets about it, so what?

(08-25-2017, 01:33 PM)GMDino Wrote: If he's going to lie and act the fool every day he will get called out every day.

Again, why, though? Every politician lies. Focus on the IMPORTANT issues.

(08-25-2017, 01:33 PM)GMDino Wrote: Speaking the truth about him should never stop.

Except not all the criticism is speaking the truth. So, when you criticize him nonstop and then some of the criticism is unwarranted and/or based on lies, guess what that does?

[GMDino]

(08-25-2017, 02:34 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Pretty much, yeah.


You don't need to explain anything to Trump. That's not your job. 
Trump doesn't need to have a health care plan, CONGRESS does.
Who cares who his foregin policy advisory is as long as he doesn't start an international incident?

Every politician lies. Worry only about the lies that matter.
On anything. When he puts forth legislation and you think its bad, criticize him then.

If he enacts a ban, then criticize him. But, if he tweets about it, so what?

Again, why, though? Every politician lies. Focus on the IMPORTANT issues.

Except not all the criticism is speaking the truth. So, when you criticize him nonstop and then some of the criticism is unwarranted and/or based on lies, guess what that does?

So the answer is to ignore everything he does, chalk it up to either he didn't do anything or he's just being a politician when he does do something?



I listed several "important" issues: Healthcare, transgenders, immigration (the wall)...they all need talked about.

Lastly when I lie about him let me know.  When I criticize him for what he says and does just move along.  

[*PhilHos*]

(08-25-2017, 02:42 PM)GMDino Wrote: So the answer is to ignore everything he does, chalk it up to either he didn't do anything or he's just being a politician when he does do something?

Yes, when I said to narrow the focus of your criticism that means your choices are to either ignore him or excuse him.

GMDino Wrote:I listed several "important" issues: Healthcare, transgenders, immigration (the wall)...they all need talked about.

Sure, but him looking into the eclipse directly or him tweeting or NOT tweeting on a particular topic do not need to be talked about.

GMDino Wrote:Lastly when I lie about him let me know.  

Will do, but you'll come up with SOME excuse like you usually do.

GMDino Wrote:When I criticize him for what he says and does just move along.   

Sometimes I will, sometimes I won't. Just don't be surprised if the non-stop criticism from you and your fellow Trump haters just leads to him being re-elected.