And finally some common sense from a dem.

[BmorePat87]

(05-18-2020, 02:16 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: A little extreme but yeah, I got excited about it. The stimulus should be about the virus and nothing else. No reason to slide stuff in there that doesnt apply. It's one of those things where you add things that are important to you that has nothing to do with Rona, then say GOP is bad for voting against it. Do you really care about the american people if you are using the pandemic as a political edge? 

When I saw this same complaint about the first bill, I realized people were complaining about maybe 5% of the spending in it. Someone put flashy key words to describe spending that made it seem non-essential, but it was for various programs directly affected by the pandemic. 

It added up to a fraction of what was being given to large corporations. It also misses the mark when the same people championed tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans that led to massive deficits during an expansion and limited our ability to fund things during an emergency. 

[HarleyDog]

(05-18-2020, 02:44 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: When I saw this same complaint about the first bill, I realized people were complaining about maybe 5% of the spending in it. Someone put flashy key words to describe spending that made it seem non-essential, but it was for various programs directly affected by the pandemic. 

It added up to a fraction of what was being given to large corporations. It also misses the mark when the same people championed tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans that led to massive deficits during an expansion and limited our ability to fund things during an emergency. 

Isnt there huge breaks for for the rich in this one? 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-17-2020, 09:13 PM)Benton Wrote: Not really sure what's in the bill. The last one was bipartisan crap.

Personally, I don't think there should be any bail out money going to corporations sheltering money overseas. I get that it's legal, but if your company records billion dollar profits every year that you aren't paying taxes on, you don't need Joe the plumbers third of his annual income.

I'm also against giving money to corporations that want money without any strings attached like Boeing.  We've given financial aid to companies like Transamerica in the past only for them to use the money to pay executive bonuses instead of making their customers financially whole.  Screw that.

[Belsnickel]

(05-18-2020, 02:35 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: I don't understand it. To me it seems sneaky, and it is. Another thing that seems sneaky is creating a bill and giving people 24-48hrs to read it. Not saying if they had 2 weeks to read it they would, but the perception doesnt lay well with me. No, not pointing at dems, just politics in general.

Oh, I know. It's a common thing that occurs in government on both sides. There are a lot of potential reasons for it that political scientists have theorized about, but it is no doubt a combination of circumstances that create the situation we have. I wish I had a good answer for why it is this way and what we can do about it, but I don't have that expertise. I have a colleague who does, though, and he literally spent several months in Washington with several others formulating a process to try to fix some of these problems. When I ran into him on campus during the midst of the impeachment hearings I asked him "so how was it trying to fix Congress? Any progress?" His response of "of course! Can't you tell?" got a chuckle, but one where we both knew that underneath the humor residing on the surface was a cluster **** of gigantic proportions.

For what it's worth, they did come up with some interesting solutions, but none of them will be implemented because those in power have no intention of giving up any. The changes needed will make the chambers more democratic and representative, which diffuses power. That is distasteful to party leadership.

[HarleyDog]

(05-18-2020, 03:02 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I'm also against giving money to corporations that want money without any strings attached like Boeing.  We've given financial aid to companies like Transamerica in the past only for them to use the money to pay executive bonuses instead of making their customers financially whole.  Screw that.

I thought Boeing refused any assistance, or did they change their minds? Your right about the bonuses. Those things should freeze immediately after receiving a bailout until it's paid back. Back when we did this to the banks and then the news came out with the bonuses, I felt truly robben and ridiculed as a taxpayer.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-18-2020, 03:17 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: I thought Boeing refused any assistance, or did they change their minds? Your right about the bonuses. Those things should freeze immediately after receiving a bailout until it's paid back. Back when we did this to the banks and then the news came out with the bonuses, I felt truly robben and ridiculed as a taxpayer.

Last I heard Boeing said they would pursue other avenues of assistance if strings were attached.  Good.  You do that.  Government assistance shouldn't be available unless you've exhausted all you other options first.

[HarleyDog]

(05-18-2020, 03:24 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Last I heard Boeing said they would pursue other avenues of assistance if strings were attached.  Good.  You do that.  Government assistance shouldn't be available unless you've exhausted all you other options first.

Agreed. Many companies have reserve cash. We would be stupid and I would go off if we gave cash to a company with no payback. I believe when we bailed out the auto industry, they paid back pretty fast. Don't like the government being a bank tho, specialy at the current interest rates.

[BmorePat87]

(05-18-2020, 02:57 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Isnt there huge breaks for for the rich in this one? 

Not from what I’ve seen, but possibly?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-18-2020, 04:11 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Agreed. Many companies have reserve cash. We would be stupid and I would go off if we gave cash to a company with no payback. I believe when we bailed out the auto industry, they paid back pretty fast. Don't like the government being a bank tho, specialy at the current interest rates.

One of the reason's Boeing is cash poor is because of their stock buy back program combined with increasing their dividends.  I have very little pity for them.

[HarleyDog]

(05-18-2020, 05:39 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: One of the reason's Boeing is cash poor is because of their stock buy back program combined with increasing their dividends.  I have very little pity for them.

Well now wait a minute. Think about this for a sec. It's not so much about the flow of money than it is the backing. Many company's have cut or eliminated their dividend in these trying times. Investors pulled out at that point and their stock prices plummeted. I'm not complaining by any means because it gave me, the avg joe, the opportunity to invest in these stocks. Increasing dividends is like cheese to a mouse for investors. Specially the likes of those like Buffet. Kind of a scratch my back I'll scratch yours thing. 

I remember when I was a kid and the local bank was offering 7.99% interest. My friend (who was money smart unlike me) tried to convince me to save. Of course I didn't because I had a girlfriend, a car, etc. I needed every penny I earned. I kick myself in the ass now tho. Specially when my bank offers .01%. That's ridiculous when they are making 5-10 times that on my money. I pulled most out and invested with Ameritrade. In just a few months I've increased 10%. I have been so money stupid for a long time. Might be a little to late, but it's something.

Just realized I stopped making my point in the first paragraph. Sorry about that.

[Goalpost]

Boeing was having huge problems before the virus. Their 737 Max is still grounded.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-18-2020, 05:51 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Well now wait a minute. Think about this for a sec. It's not so much about the flow of money than it is the backing. Many company's have cut or eliminated their dividend in these trying times. Investors pulled out at that point and their stock prices plummeted. I'm not complaining by any means because it gave me, the avg joe, the opportunity to invest in these stocks. Increasing dividends is like cheese to a mouse for investors. Specially the likes of those like Buffet. Kind of a scratch my back I'll scratch yours thing. 

I remember when I was a kid and the local bank was offering 7.99% interest. My friend (who was money smart unlike me) tried to convince me to save. Of course I didn't because I had a girlfriend, a car, etc. I needed every penny I earned. I kick myself in the ass now tho. Specially when my bank offers .01%. That's ridiculous when they are making 5-10 times that on my money. I pulled most out and invested with Ameritrade. In just a few months I've increased 10%. I have been so money stupid for a long time. Might be a little to late, but it's something.

Just realized I stopped making my point in the first paragraph. Sorry about that.

Yesterday I was patting my pocket looking for my cellphone and realized it was in my hand.  Happens to the best of us.

[Benton]

(05-18-2020, 02:57 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Isnt there huge breaks for for the rich in this one? 

Well, given the lack of republican support, my guess is no.

There's not a lot on what's in the bill. From the article below, it's a second round of stimulus checks, bailouts for states (who are having to fund a lot of this without federal assistance for all of it) and hazard pay for essential workers.

Given that it's mostly lower wage workers and medical/ems/police who have been deemed essential (and also underpaid), my guess is that's the real sticking point. We've had a wage war for two decades, with those at the top making huge paydays off keeping wages low (Walmart, mcdonalds, Amazon, etc). When this is all said and done, they don't want those people making sub-$10 an hour having any leverage.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/terinaallen/2020/05/16/the-bill-passed-for-second-stimulus-check-and-hazard-pay-for-essential-workers/

[HarleyDog]

(05-18-2020, 07:30 PM)Benton Wrote: Well, given the lack of republican support, my guess is no.

There's not a lot on what's in the bill. From the article below, it's a second round of stimulus checks, bailouts for states (who are having to fund a lot of this without federal assistance for all of it) and hazard pay for essential workers.

Given that it's mostly lower wage workers and medical/ems/police who have been deemed essential (and also underpaid), my guess is that's the real sticking point. We've had a wage war for two decades, with those at the top making huge paydays off keeping wages low (Walmart, mcdonalds, Amazon, etc). When this is all said and done, they don't want those people making sub-$10 an hour having any leverage.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/terinaallen/2020/05/16/the-bill-passed-for-second-stimulus-check-and-hazard-pay-for-essential-workers/

Good article. Thanks for the read. I doubt it passes. It needs cleaned up a bit. Yet I think they will negotiate and get some dollars moving. Dollars we all will enjoy now, but payback later. It doesn't work any other way that I can think of? People need the money tho so it's important this bill gets passed soon to help people pay the bills.

[Goalpost]

One thing leaking out about this bill is that there is a lot of cannabis language.

[Belsnickel]

(05-18-2020, 08:32 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Good article. Thanks for the read. I doubt it passes. It needs cleaned up a bit. Yet I think they will negotiate and get some dollars moving. Dollars we all will enjoy now, but payback later. It doesn't work any other way that I can think of? People need the money tho so it's important this bill gets passed soon to help people pay the bills.

I guess my concern in all of this is when would we have seen something happen, otherwise? It may seem partisan, but if it takes one side in one chamber to do something like this to kick start things, then so be it. It seems like there is a lot of feet dragging in Washington right now.

[hollodero]

(05-19-2020, 09:59 AM)Goalpost Wrote: One thing leaking out about this bill is that there is a lot of cannabis language.

Joint agreement in the weeds?

[Goalpost]

(05-19-2020, 12:11 PM)hollodero Wrote: Joint agreement in the weeds?

I must admit, I've considered investing in a pot stock, but the issue in the field is, of all things, over supply.  But it's possible to play it another way by investing in PepsiCo which makes Doritos.  

[Dill]

(05-19-2020, 01:13 PM)Goalpost Wrote: I must admit, I've considered investing in a pot stock, but the issue in the field is, of all things, over supply.  But it's possible to play it another way by investing in PepsiCo which makes Doritos.