Why do you think Trump gave Russian reporters access but not American reporters?

[Belsnickel]

Honestly, the investigation is more about the Trump campaign, those around him, and collusion with Russia. The IC has said Russia is who hacked the DNC servers and provided emails to Wikileaks. Roger Stone, a Trump confidant, has said in a tweet that he had contact with the hacker that breached the DNC and leaked the information to Wikileaks. There is behavior from Flynn and others that is cause for concern. The investigation is more about the people involved in the campaign than Trump himself, though there is no doubt that how much Trump knew will be a question asked.

[Matt_Crimson]

(05-11-2017, 05:20 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: About what?  About inappropriate contact between Russian officials and Trump officials.


Isn't that the point of an investigation? To find out who did what or to clear their name of wrong doing.

That is the point of an investigation. But people are acting like they already know Trump did SOMETHING that's REALLY bad. They just haven't found it yet.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-11-2017, 05:28 PM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: That is the point of an investigation. But people are acting like they already know Trump did SOMETHING that's REALLY bad. They just haven't found it yet.

You're not acting like Trump did something really bad and your "people" so at least some of that is your perception.

Where do you get your impression? From Facebook? Family? Co-workers?

[GMDino]

(05-11-2017, 05:28 PM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: That is the point of an investigation. But people are acting like they already know Trump did SOMETHING that's REALLY bad. They just haven't found it yet.

That's an assumption based on him being a liar and a cheat most of his adult life.  Doesn't mean it is 100% true or can be proven.

[Belsnickel]

(05-11-2017, 05:28 PM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: That is the point of an investigation. But people are acting like they already know Trump did SOMETHING that's REALLY bad. They just haven't found it yet.

I've been doing my best to avoid labeling anyone as guilty until an investigation occurs, but Trump and those around him make it hard. They have said things and taken actions that just make it look worse. I can't tell whether it is incompetence or actual nefarious actions, but it is just horrible public relations.

And of course, the media is eating it up because they treat their job as a business instead of a civic institution, and so they are all over what sells.

This is why I want the special prosecutor, just to get it over with.

[GMDino]

(05-11-2017, 05:42 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I've been doing my best to avoid labeling anyone as guilty until an investigation occurs, but Trump and those around him make it hard. They have said things and taken actions that just make it look worse. I can't tell whether it is incompetence or actual nefarious actions, but it is just horrible public relations.

And of course, the media is eating it up because they treat their job as a business instead of a civic institution, and so they are all over what sells.

This is why I want the special prosecutor, just to get it over with.

[Benton]

(05-11-2017, 01:20 PM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: What led to the investigation?

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/03/connections-trump-putin-russia-ties-chart-flynn-page-manafort-sessions-214868

That's a decent visual.

Basically, a guy who for years talks about how great of a leader and how nice of a guy Putin is runs for president. On the trail, he surrounds himself with people who have connections to Russia. On the trail he calls for Russian involvement against his opponent. Once he's elected, he puts people friendly or personally gaining from Russia into positions of authority, and several of his statements involving those people or connections turn out to be incorrect at the least and intentionally dishonest at the worst.

If a service member met regularly with Russian intelligence officers, officials, etc., they would be investigated. Why wouldnt the Commander in Chief?

[*Nately120*]

(05-11-2017, 05:35 PM)GMDino Wrote: That's an assumption based on him being a liar and a cheat most of his adult life.  Doesn't mean it is 100% true or can be proven.

This is what gets me.  People elected Trump based on the notion that he was a lying, cheating bully who saw what he wanted and grabbed it and claimed it for his own and didn't give a damn about hurting anyone's feelings or doing anything but winning.  Those were the characteristics that were going to make him the kick-ass world-beater to fix things after Obama spent the last 8 years being a giant wimp who went around the globe bowing to everyone and apologizing for how much ass the USA kicks. Trump's campaign was based on the notion that he is awesome because he will do anything to win and that he doesn't let rules and manners and etiquette get in his way like the rest of those wimps.

Suddenly, when we call out Trump's history of being a monster into account for anything other than "Making us Great Again™" it's a bunch of speculative straw grasping done by a media and voter-base that just can't handle getting beaten by a real winner.  Go figure.

Anyways, Trump could hold a press conference and tell everyone he rigged the election and people would line up to kiss his shoes to show gratitude for a man who would do whatever it takes to save us from another vile liberal wimp.

[Bengalzona]

(05-11-2017, 01:56 PM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: Suspicions based on what?

I'm not asking for concrete evidence. In a lot of murder cases there is no concrete evidence of who actually committed the murder. Rather, there is circumstantial evidence that leads to the suspicions of who might have done it.

What evidence is there that links Trump to collusion with Russia that makes all of the suspicion so great. If there is no evidence, then why is the suspicion so great?

Our intelligence was monitoring certain Russian diplomats last summer. These figures had been under long-term observation. In the course of that monitoring, the Russians had several meetings with individuals who were, at that time, senior members of Trump's campaign. Certain individuals, most prominently Michael Flynn, were recorded having improper conversations with the Russians (I think it had something to do with promises of Trump working to remove sanctions against Russia for the Crimea invasion if he was elected, or something along those lines). I believe there were also certain suspect private business dealings between these individuals and the Russians. Later, it was discovered that certain Russian intelligence agencies had intervened in the U.S. election through massive use of political bots and hacking into accounts. Additionally, there were certain claims made by a former British MI5 member regarding associations between Trump and Putin.

The FBI (and maybe other agencies) presented this information to the government. Based upon that evidence (and possibly other things that has not been presented to the public), the Obama admin decided that there was cause for further investigation and instructed the FBI and the DoJ to open an official investigation. Additionally, the House and the Senate decided to open their own inquiries.

There is no evidence to date that explicitly fingers Trump himself as being involved. That said, the fact that individuals high in his campaign staff were involved has fueled the questions of "Exactly who was involved and what was the extent?". That is why the investigation and inquiries were opened. Three members of Trumps admin accused of having associations with the Russians have been fired since Trump took office. Additionally, three members of agencies investigating the Russian ties have been fired by the Trump admin.

[Dill]

(05-11-2017, 05:11 PM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: Raise a red flag to what exactly? That Trump did.....what?

Matt, suspicions have arisen because of a confluence of "coincidences."

On the one hand, Russia manipulated the recent elections. The FBI, CIA, and other intel organizations agree their goal was finally to help Donald Trump win. One of the stakes in Trump win was the possibility he would eliminate the Obama sanctions.

On the other hand, while this was going on, members of the Trump campaign were meeting with the Russian ambassador and known Russian spies. This was discovered in part incidentally, as the spies communications were monitored. Trump people began showing up in their conversations. Intel agencies from other countries, like Poland and the UK, were also concerned and monitoring these conversations. Over the objections of Obama and Sally Yates, Trump selected a crazy, previously fired general with undisclosed monetary ties to Russia and Turkey for his NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR--possibly the most sensitive position in government, and so close to the president. He discussed easing sanctions on Russia with their Ambassador and lied about it. Then Trump appointed the notoriously Russian friendly head of EXXON as secretary of state --a man who, as a private citizen, was affected by sanctions on Russia. His first campaign manager had ties to Russian mafia and banks, receiving millions from them.

During and after the election, the one world leader Trump has been unable to criticize is Putin. In the face of his own intel agencies, he denies Russians even interfered with the election. Trump won't release his taxes. We cannot tell what his business/banking ties to Russia are. To the horror of the intel community, the Russians got a Russian journalist into the White House and Oval Office yesterday, as Trump excluded the American press.

When the Russia investigation is about to ramp up, Trump fires the guy heading that investigation, a guy who refuses to pledge loyalty to him. And the public reason he gives is an action Trump praised six months ago.

To recap, while Russia is interfering with our Democracy, Trump people are cozying up to their ambassador and spies; and after the election, Trump is appointing people with Russian sympathies and questionable ties to the Kremlin to sensitive national security and foreign policy positions, and denying that any Russian interference in our election occurred. And then he fires the guy in charge of investigating his campaign's Russian ties.

A lot of red flags there. And the right wing Trumpsters on talk radio are running intereference--daily telling us there is no evidence, no "there " there, the Obama deep state trying to stall Trump's revolution.

[Dill]

(05-11-2017, 07:00 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: There is no evidence to date that explicitly fingers Trump himself as being involved. That said, the fact that individuals high in his campaign staff were involved has fueled the questions of "Exactly who was involved and what was the extent?". That is why the investigation and inquiries were opened. Three members of Trumps admin accused of having associations with the Russians have been fired since Trump took office. Additionally, three members of agencies investigating the Russian ties have been fired by the Trump admin.

Yes, good summary. 

Now there is another point we need to discuss. That woman in your sig looks Russian to me. Why is she suddenly appearing in a thread about US Russian relations?  I say we need to open an investigation. What is her address again?

[Matt_Crimson]

(05-11-2017, 05:50 PM)Benton Wrote: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/03/connections-trump-putin-russia-ties-chart-flynn-page-manafort-sessions-214868

That's a decent visual.

Basically, a guy who for years talks about how great of a leader and how nice of a guy Putin is runs for president. On the trail, he surrounds himself with people who have connections to Russia. On the trail he calls for Russian involvement against his opponent. Once he's elected, he puts people friendly or personally gaining from Russia into positions of authority, and several of his statements involving those people or connections turn out to be incorrect at the least and intentionally dishonest at the worst.

If a service member met regularly with Russian intelligence officers, officials, etc., they would be investigated. Why wouldnt the Commander in Chief?

(05-11-2017, 07:00 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: Our intelligence was monitoring certain Russian diplomats last summer. These figures had been under long-term observation. In the course of that monitoring, the Russians had several meetings with individuals who were, at that time, senior members of Trump's campaign. Certain individuals, most prominently Michael Flynn, were recorded having improper conversations with the Russians (I think it had something to do with promises of Trump working to remove sanctions against Russia for the Crimea invasion if he was elected, or something along those lines). I believe there were also certain suspect private business dealings between these individuals and the Russians. Later, it was discovered that certain Russian intelligence agencies had intervened in the U.S. election through massive use of political bots and hacking into accounts. Additionally, there were certain claims made by a former British MI5 member regarding associations between Trump and Putin.

The FBI (and maybe other agencies) presented this information to the government. Based upon that evidence (and possibly other things that has not been presented to the public), the Obama admin decided that there was cause for further investigation and instructed the FBI and the DoJ to open an official investigation. Additionally, the House and the Senate decided to open their own inquiries.

There is no evidence to date that explicitly fingers Trump himself as being involved. That said, the fact that individuals high in his campaign staff were involved has fueled the questions of "Exactly who was involved and what was the extent?". That is why the investigation and inquiries were opened. Three members of Trumps admin accused of having associations with the Russians have been fired since Trump took office. Additionally, three members of agencies investigating the Russian ties have been fired by the Trump admin.

(05-11-2017, 11:30 PM)Dill Wrote: Matt, suspicions have arisen because of a confluence of "coincidences."

On the one hand, Russia manipulated the recent elections. The FBI, CIA, and other intel organizations agree their goal was finally to help Donald Trump win. One of the stakes in Trump win was the possibility he would eliminate the Obama sanctions.

On the other hand, while this was going on, members of the Trump campaign were meeting with the Russian ambassador and known Russian spies. This was discovered in part incidentally, as the spies communications were monitored. Trump people began showing up in their conversations. Intel agencies from other countries, like Poland and the UK, were also concerned and monitoring these conversations. Over the objections of Obama and Sally Yates, Trump selected a crazy, previously fired general with undisclosed monetary ties to Russia and Turkey for his NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR--possibly the most sensitive position in government, and so close to the president. He discussed easing sanctions on Russia with their Ambassador and lied about it. Then Trump appointed the notoriously Russian friendly head of EXXON as secretary of state --a man who, as a private citizen, was affected by sanctions on Russia. His first campaign manager had ties to Russian mafia and banks, receiving millions from them.

During and after the election, the one world leader Trump has been unable to criticize is Putin. In the face of his own intel agencies, he denies Russians even interfered with the election. Trump won't release his taxes. We cannot tell what his business/banking ties to Russia are. To the horror of the intel community, the Russians got a Russian journalist into the White House and Oval Office yesterday, as Trump excluded the American press.

When the Russia investigation is about to ramp up, Trump fires the guy heading that investigation, a guy who refuses to pledge loyalty to him. And the public reason he gives is an action Trump praised six months ago.

To recap, while Russia is interfering with our Democracy, Trump people are cozying up to their ambassador and spies; and after the election, Trump is appointing people with Russian sympathies and questionable ties to the Kremlin to sensitive national security and foreign policy positions, and denying that any Russian interference in our election occurred. And then he fires the guy in charge of investigating his campaign's Russian ties.

A lot of red flags there. And the right wing Trumpsters on talk radio are running intereference--daily telling us there is no evidence, no "there " there, the Obama deep state trying to stall Trump's revolution.

I''ve read these responses and I'm not ignoring them. I just have some other things to attend to right now but I'll respond to them when I get a chance. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-11-2017, 05:11 PM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: Raise a red flag to what exactly? That Trump did.....what?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trumps-intel-bosses-reiterate-russia-meddled-election-155658636.html

Six US intelligence officials testified Russia interfered with the US election. Trump won't even admit the intelligencebreports are true.

Just a lot of speculation and mass hysteria, huh?

[Bengalzona]

(05-11-2017, 11:35 PM)Dill Wrote: Yes, good summary. 

Now there is another point we need to discuss. That woman in your sig looks Russian to me. Why is she suddenly appearing in a thread about US Russian relations?  I say we need to open an investigation. What is her address again?

A lot of people have asked about the ladies in some of my sig photos.

I have a friend in Italy who is a photographer. He shares these with me.

[Benton]

(05-12-2017, 02:19 AM)Bengalzona Wrote: A lot of people have asked about the ladies in some of my sig photos.

I have a friend in Italy who is a photographer. He shares these with me.

He shares women with you?

[Bengalzona]

(05-12-2017, 08:52 AM)Benton Wrote: He shares women with you?

Giuseppe shares everything. He knows no boundaries. Picture him as the Italian version of Kramer from "Seinfeld": He'll burst into your apartment at any hour, say hello, and head straight to the fridge to raid it. But because of his personality, no one cares.