Another mass shooting...

[RoyleRedlegs]

(10-02-2015, 01:35 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Just for the fun of it, let's talk about this guy: http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/oregon-college-shooting/oregon-shooting-heroic-veteran-chris-mintz-was-shot-7-times-n437291?cid=sm_fb

I'd rather talk about someone doing some heroic shit like this than the douche that did the shooting.

Can we also say, that Sheriff should be the national standard on not glorifying the sick ***** who did this? 

[GMDino]

(10-02-2015, 01:35 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Just for the fun of it, let's talk about this guy: http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/oregon-college-shooting/oregon-shooting-heroic-veteran-chris-mintz-was-shot-7-times-n437291?cid=sm_fb

I'd rather talk about someone doing some heroic shit like this than the douche that did the shooting.

If only he had had a gun.  

[xxlt]

(10-02-2015, 09:45 AM)Au165 Wrote: Rounding up 300 million guns is as likely as the idea that we can identify mass shooters before they all happen and get people help. Some people just wake up one day and snap, some people are just sick and want to kill people. Like I said I don't have the answer, and while the mental health approach is good in general it is not going to stop these things from happening.

And yet they don't happen anywhere else in the world. American exceptionalism?

[Au165]

(10-02-2015, 02:00 PM)xxlt Wrote: And yet they don't happen anywhere else in the world. American exceptionalism?

Except they do happen other places in the world, just not at the rate they do here. Which is why you'd think we could come up with a way to get on par with most other developed countries in the world.

[SteelCitySouth]

(10-02-2015, 02:00 PM)xxlt Wrote: And yet they don't happen anywhere else in the world. American exceptionalism?

What?

[*michaelsean*]

I hear gun control, but let me hear suggestions. I'm open to suggestions. I'm not a hard line don't you dare check me out guy. Training, classes etc? That won't stop anyone from doing this. What is the law that will make these things diminish?

[*Nately120*]

(10-02-2015, 02:56 PM)michaelsean Wrote: What is the law that will make these things diminish?

Well, there are laws against killing people, but mass shooters don't seem to care about them so I'd have to conclude that laws against murder are pretty pointless.

[Belsnickel]

(10-02-2015, 02:56 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I hear gun control, but let me hear suggestions.  I'm open to suggestions.  I'm not a hard line don't you dare check me out guy.    Training, classes etc?  That won't stop anyone from doing this.  What is the law that will make these things diminish?

Honestly, laws are not going to make things like this diminish. It's a culture shift that has occurred to make them more frequent, it will take a culture shift to make them reduce in frequency.

[fredtoast]

(10-02-2015, 11:24 AM)Ryuko Wrote: Also from the CDC... 88,000 alcohol-related deaths per year. Weird that I never see anyone getting on their soapbox to rally for prohibition... And heart disease is the #1 killer in America. Where are the protesters outside McDonalds? "Fast food is child abuse!" makes for a pretty catchy picket sign. 

No takers? Ok. Back to your regularly scheduled programming of people who believe that outlawing guns means people won't have them. That's why no one in the US had pot before 2012, and why cocaine doesn't exist within our borders. Strange no one has thought to outlaw murder... Then no one would kill anybody with anything, right?

So you don't think there is any need to make laws against murder?

Not exactly sure what your point is here.  Just because laws do not completely eliminate crime that does not mean laws do not reduce crime.

I mean, we have had doctors around for a long time and people still get sick.  does that mean that doctors are useless?

[fredtoast]

(10-02-2015, 03:03 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Honestly, laws are not going to make things like this diminish. It's a culture shift that has occurred to make them more frequent, it will take a culture shift to make them reduce in frequency.

I am afraid this is correct.


20 years ago  murder rates in the United States were over twice what they are now.  This was mainly do to gang/drug activity.  No one law made the murder rates drop.  Instead it was cultural shift.

Today people who feel completely helpless can take out their frustration by grabbing a gun and killing a bunch of people.  It is not as much for the fame as it is for the feeling of power and control it gives them.

How do we fix it?  I don't know.

[fredtoast]

Another problem is that the only time gun control gets any airplay is after a mass shooting. But the issue of mass shootings is really unrelated to gun control. I would bet that the percentage of gun deaths in mass shootings is only about 1% of the total number of people killed each year by guns in the United States.

The "Gun Violence Problem" is not really that closely related to the "Mass Shooting Problem", but every proposal to help curb "gun violence" is framed to address the "mass shooting" problem.

[mallorian69]

While it might be true Oregon doesn't prohibit firearms on college campuses, the schools regulations prohibit carrying without written permission from the school.

https://www.umpqua.edu/resources-and-services/academic/student-code-of-conduct?showall=&start=4

No clue how often or if they ever give permission.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(10-02-2015, 03:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I am afraid this is correct.


20 years ago  murder rates in the United States were over twice what they are now.  This was mainly do to gang/drug activity.  No one law made the murder rates drop.  Instead it was cultural shift.

Today people who feel completely helpless can take out their frustration by grabbing a gun and killing a bunch of people.  It is not as much for the fame as it is for the feeling of power and control it gives them.

How do we fix it?  I don't know.

We stop protecting kids from the world. Sometimes you fail. You will lose at some point. Some one will be mean to you.  Someone will hurt you, emotionally or physically. 
Deal with it. Learn from losses and mistakes. Get better. Be above those who are mean or hurt. But instead we teach victimhood. You're a victim. You can't do anything because you're a victim. Don't fight back. Don't express your anger. 

[Au165]

(10-02-2015, 03:22 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Another problem is that the only time gun control gets any airplay is after a mass shooting.  But the issue of mass shootings is really unrelated to gun control.  I would bet that the percentage of gun deaths in mass shootings is only about 1% of the total number of people killed each year by guns in the United States.

The "Gun Violence Problem" is not really that closely related to the "Mass Shooting Problem", but every proposal to help curb "gun violence" is framed to address the "mass shooting" problem.

We have become numb to the whole idea of killing in this country.  The reason that only mass shootings get national coverage is because local news leads off every night with someone getting murdered, it just doesn't have any shock value anymore.

[SteelCitySouth]

(10-02-2015, 03:28 PM)mallorian69 Wrote: While it might be true Oregon doesn't prohibit firearms on college campuses, the schools regulations prohibit carrying without written permission from the school.

https://www.umpqua.edu/resources-and-services/academic/student-code-of-conduct?showall=&start=4

No clue how often or if they ever give permission.

There is a new report with a guy that was on campus a carrying at the time.  

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/10/01/3708256/ucc-was-not-a-gun-free-zone-because-public-colleges-in-oregon-cant-ban-guns/

When I find that other video again I will post it.

[*Nately120*]

(10-02-2015, 03:34 PM)Au165 Wrote: We have become numb to the whole idea of killing in this country.  The reason that only mass shootings get national coverage is because local news leads off every night with someone getting murdered, it just doesn't have any shock value anymore.

I'd say we're becoming numb to mass shootings, as well.  

[J24]

Lack of security is the biggest problem when it comes to mass shootings.

[Belsnickel]

(10-02-2015, 03:52 PM)J24 Wrote: Lack of security is the biggest problem when it comes to mass shootings.

But you can't secure everywhere against these things. It would turn very big brother around here.

[fredtoast]

(10-02-2015, 03:52 PM)J24 Wrote: Lack of security is the biggest problem when it comes to mass shootings.

We can't have armed guards at every McDonalds in the country.

[SteelCitySouth]

(10-02-2015, 03:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: We can't have armed guards at every McDonalds in the country.

Wait.........This could solve the unemployment crisis!!!!!!