Another school shooting...more children dead.

[Dill]

(03-28-2023, 11:19 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: Well stop indoctrinating the youth. for 1

Punish people calling for Violence like Jane Fonda  calling for murder of republicans

Not easy to do in the U.S., where we have a 1st Amendment. 

[*pally*]

(03-28-2023, 12:38 PM)basballguy Wrote: In my opinion, better parenting is the solution in almost every situation involving mental health.  

As parents, we know what our children are capable of long before it happens.  

Everywhere in the world, there are bad parents, mental health issues, violent movies and video games, and every other excuse conservatives throw out for mass shootings. They also don't have easy access to weapons designed to kill and maim as many people as possible as quickly as possible and a society that glorifies guns.  And coincidently they also don't have the number of mass murders we do.

Why us and not them?

[basballguy]

(03-28-2023, 03:15 PM)pally Wrote: Everywhere in the world, there are bad parents, mental health issues, violent movies and video games, and every other excuse conservatives throw out for mass shootings. They also don't have easy access to weapons designed to kill and maim as many people as possible as quickly as possible and a society that glorifies guns.  And coincendtly they also don't have the number of mass murders we do.

Why us and not them?

So you want to treat the symptom and not the problem?  

[Dill]

(03-28-2023, 01:03 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: The question becomes "how do we facilitate that?" and I think we are currently heading in the wrong direction. Economic factors, healthcare and education are all major factors that I think are failing right now. Economically, costs have been on the rise for decades and wages haven't kept up. People have less disposable money, which leads to distress and feelings of hopelessness. I wouldn't be surprised if this ends up relating to more detached parenting on an aggregate level. I have no idea if it does, I am just spitballing thoughts here. Anecdotally, I grew up poor and so did several of my friends. My friends in this case, more often than not, had exhausted parents who just wanted quiet time because they got off their second job or some other, similar reason. 

Healthcare is exorbitantly expensive and relates back to economic factors. A person is sick and needs treatment, only to find out that the treatment isn't covered by their insurance/don't have insurance which means they need to go into severe debt to treat it. Another anecdote, but a woman I dated in college required brain surgery several years before we met. Her family owned their own business but didn't have health insurance. After her surgery and treatment, they were over $1.5MM in debt. Several years after we broke up, she required surgery again, and was then diagnosed with cancer. It's not only a soulcrushing story in general, but the monetary investment to just overcome something like that is debilitating. 

Education is pretty straightforward. Higher education is very expensive and even high-school curriculums aren't up to snuff in many areas of the country. At my high-school, I had an advanced placement statistics course I took and the professor said "if you keep your mouth shut and don't cause trouble, I'll give all of you an A."  I learned nothing from that class and received an A. Thankfully, my college classes were much better but across the board, education quality needs attention. 

A lot of nuance on this topic, but I think my general idea is that well regulated, compensated and educated individuals make happy individuals. Happy individuals, on an aggregate, make better parents. We are seeing the opposite. Many people my age are waiting to have children or declining to altogether due to education and economic concerns. 

To all this I would add that in our country, people move around a lot. Extended families, which used to support children along with parents, have been broken or reduced because of that. 

In many families, both parents need to work outside the home, and there are not grandparents, uncles, aunts and cousins around to babysit or otherwise support the parents. Electronics began taking over the babysitter role in my generation; now it's much worse. 

Discipline has eroded as well--parents, and especially teachers, are reduced to various, often changing carrots and no sticks. 

I understand the healthcare story very well, having lived under the German system for a decade and then faced once again with the U.S. I think about that difference every time I hear of people crowd funding or whatever they call it when families go on line to beg for help. 

There is an added problem when it comes to mental health care though, and that is it is very difficult to "force" treatment on anyone. 

[Dill]

(03-28-2023, 12:38 PM)basballguy Wrote: In my opinion, better parenting is the solution in almost every situation involving mental health.  

As parents, we know what our children are capable of long before it happens.  

But there are types of mental illness, like schizophrenia, that are really brain wiring problems, right?

Schizophrenia appears mostly in males, with first symptoms emerging in late teens and early 20s. 

Very little the parents can do about that, especially if there are no warning signs. 

And when the child turns 18, forcing treatment is very difficult.

It may be hard to tell if a school shooter is schizophrenic, if he is spouting racist manifestoes about "race war" and
the like, yet such could be absorbed into schizo delusions pretty easily. 

[HarleyDog]

I only came to this thread because someone said ya'll have ice cream. We'll get to the school shooting thing later.

[basballguy]

(03-28-2023, 04:18 PM)Dill Wrote: But there are types of mental illness, like schizophrenia, that are really brain wiring problems, right?

Schizophrenia appears mostly in males, with first symptoms emerging in late teens and early 20s. 

Very little the parents can do about that, especially if there are no warning signs. 

And when the child turns 18, forcing treatment is very difficult.

It may be hard to tell if a school shooter is schizophrenic, if he is spouting racist manifestoes about "race war" and
the like, yet such could be absorbed into schizo delusions pretty easily. 

Ya that's why i said "almost every".  Better parenting isn't gonna help the vet that was shell-shocked multiple times in Iraq either.  

I'm sure there's other examples.  

[CKwi88]

(03-28-2023, 05:15 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: I only came to this thread because someone said ya'll have ice cream. We'll get to the school shooting thing later.

New school chant: "I scream, you scream, we all scream for shootings AHHHHHhhhhhh......"

[basballguy]

(03-28-2023, 05:15 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: I only came to this thread because someone said ya'll have ice cream. We'll get to the school shooting thing later.

That was one of the most bizarre Biden speaking appearances I've ever seen.  Out of context it's really strange but I'll sum it up as him just trying to be funny.  

[BengalYankee]

(03-28-2023, 10:26 AM)GMDino Wrote: The shooter was a female, which in and of itself is odd.

She shot her way in through a locked door...so there goes that talking point.

It was a religious school so there goes that talking point about "bringing god back" when offering thoughts and prayers.

Republicans voted against funding more/better mental health resources for students so there goes that.

So, what are left with?

https://www.npr.org/2022/05/25/1101269886/the-onion-mass-shooting-satire




And that was year ago...


Anyone have any other suggestions?  I'm out of them.  I believe in your 2A right.  So what can we do other than just keep mourning?

Let's rephrase the topic.

This was a "Hate Crime" against Christians at a Catholic School by a Transgender He/She. 

[HarleyDog]

(03-28-2023, 05:19 PM)basballguy Wrote: That was one of the most bizarre Biden speaking appearances I've ever seen.  Out of context it's really strange but I'll sum it up as him just trying to be funny.  

Very strange time to try your comedy act. Audrey Hale was a bad dude. Wait.... 

[StoneTheCrow]

(03-28-2023, 05:27 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Very strange time to try your comedy act. Audrey Hale was a bad dude. Wait.... 

Eh…in his defense if you had a room full of journalists showering you with oohs and ahhhs and clapping like seals at every dumb ass statement you made about ice cream you’d start to think your ice cream bit was a gonna be a sure fire home run at all times too.

Edit: Our man is on a heater! He’s a regular barrel of monkeys out there.

Asked to respond to GOP Senator Josh Hawley's claim he believes Christians were targeted in Monday's school shooting in Nashville, TN, Biden tells reporters at the White House, "Well, I probably don't then," before clarifying, "No, I'm joking-- I have no idea." pic.twitter.com/7BfVbdbXmN

— DJ Judd (@DJJudd) March 28, 2023

[Matt_Crimson]

I'm confused as to how people are to be "better parents" when "better parenting" now a days is basically shutting the hell up and letting your child do whatever they want to do and not impeding on their life choices.

[CJD]

(03-28-2023, 12:38 PM)basballguy Wrote: In my opinion, better parenting is the solution in almost every situation involving mental health.  

As parents, we know what our children are capable of long before it happens.  

The problem is you can't legislate better parenting. At least not directly (there are indirect ways to make people less stressed/overworked/financially imperiled which would naturally improve parenting). So, from a government standpoint, the options would be 1. do nothing or 2. do something that is not helpful (if we accept the premise that better parenting is the solution).

I don't buy the premise though, because it would infer that parents of other countries are inherently better than American parents, since mass shootings, especially at schools, just do not happen in other countries the way they do in America.

[NUGDUKWE]

I really don't think better parenting is the fix for mental illness. Better parenting might fix a lot of our homicides in the country that our done by young adults/kids that don't fully grasp the magnitude of they're actions. But mental illness is a different animal. Once someone's over 18 a parent or the police don't have much say if no crimes have been committed. I think the obvious solution is real legitimate gun legislation. I'm not talking bans but it's time to rethink our requirements to buy and own guns.

[*Nately120*]

(03-28-2023, 07:26 PM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: I'm confused as to how people are to be "better parents" when "better parenting" now a days is basically shutting the hell up and letting your child do whatever they want to do and not impeding on their life choices.

I don't have kids, but I know if you do too much for them people say you are a bad parent, and if you don't do enough for them people say you are a bad parent.  I'm from a rural area, so for years people my age would complain that parents these days are way too involved in their kids lives, because when they were kids they were allowed to go off on their own and actually experience things.  I feel like the whole "parents need to be involved" thing coming from these same folks is in response to the recent political assertions that grooming and indoctrination is everywhere.

I had a bit of a "both sides" feeling when I spent a few hours at a lake with my buddy and his young kids and his wife and she had the kids in UV blocking shirts, and hats, and we had 3 adults watching 2 kids in 1 foot of water.  I thought...geez, this seems pretty extreme.  And then I looked over and saw a bunch of kids around the same age with no parents terribly close with no protection practically trying to see which one could drown the others first.  I guess the universe balances out.



Anywho, how many Americans need to use a gun to shoot someone else or themselves before we stop acting like an American would have to be ultra nuts to do such a thing?  These shootings happen so often that we don't even mention them unless there is some aspect that makes it stand out from the mundane shootings, and yet we still want to just look at it and say "Crazy...flat out crazy."

Americans shooting stuff just doesn't seem crazy to me, anymore.  

[CarolinaBengalFanGuy]

(03-28-2023, 12:38 PM)basballguy Wrote: In my opinion, better parenting is the solution in almost every situation involving mental health.  

As parents, we know what our children are capable of long before it happens.  

Maybe if we didn't force bad parents to have children there would be less issues of these?

[Belsnickel]

There is a lot to this that is still yet to come out. What I will say about this incident, though, is that was a fantastic job by the police in their response. This could have been much worse than what it was. I have seen the body cam footage that was released and they were damn near textbook in their actions.

[masonbengals fan]

(03-29-2023, 09:11 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: There is a lot to this that is still yet to come out. What I will say about this incident, though, is that was a fantastic job by the police in their response. This could have been much worse than what it was. I have seen the body cam footage that was released and they were damn near textbook in their actions.

Glad to see somebody mention this. 

[GMDino]

(03-28-2023, 10:47 AM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: What's strange to me is she apparently identifies as a man. But apparently that doesn't matter now? From what I've understood from recent memory is you're a threat to the transgender community if you misidentify a trans person. Yet multiple outlets are reporting it was a woman while also saying they were transgender.

As a matter of fact. A lot of people are still confused about all of this because they're not sure if it was a man or a woman because some outlets reported it was a man, while others reported it was a woman. This seems to be a bit of an implication of playing the gender game if you ask me.

Seriously. Go look at the comment sections on this news story. People are fighting over what this "person" is, and I think it's important. I get that people died and that shouldn't be pushed to the side. But it's honestly got me wondering the impact this kind of thing has on sociology and the way in which we analyze men and women.

As you already stated. You're shocked it was a woman. So am I. But if they identify as a man and you have to accept that as reality, well then I think that changes the discussion doesn't it? Because now it's no longer shocking because it was a man and you add another tick to the violent nature of men and how they're more responsible for events like this, rather than women.

But then you have to ask yourself......how accurate is that check mark? Now, I'm not saying there will be a huge swing one way or the other, but it seems clear to me that such alterations to our society will have impacts on the statistical differences between men and women. This becomes even more true for those who consider themselves gender fluid.

So then, do we make a transgender category to single them out? Of course not, cause that would be considered transphobic.

So no answers just an attempt to make it about transgenders?

(03-28-2023, 11:19 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: Well stop indoctrinating the youth. for 1

Punish people calling for Violence like Jane Fonda  calling for murder of republicans

So no answers except to do away with the FIRST amendment?

(03-28-2023, 12:18 PM)basballguy Wrote: I am utterly convinced if the Sun were to supernova, Dino would find a way to blame republicans


The girl (or guy?) was 28 years old.  A decade removed from school.....

But it's abundantly clear this person has mental health issues.  

(03-28-2023, 12:25 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Every day and twice on Sundays.

(03-28-2023, 02:30 PM)basballguy Wrote: How are democrats combating mental illness?  

Mental illness goes beyond school shootings...the next best example is in the homeless community.  Something like 1 of 4 homeless people suffer from mental illness.  

If I look at California, Newsome's homeless combat 'plan' covers everything except mental illness.  

I know this sounds like a pivot in the conversation but I don't believe anyone anywhere is doing anything meaningful about mental illness.  

Here you go, Tim. Glad I could help cure your ignorance today. ? https://t.co/QShaRdEyUC pic.twitter.com/F7BieTtSYk

— Ryan Shead (@RyanShead) March 27, 2023

 

(03-28-2023, 05:24 PM)BengalYankee Wrote: Let's rephrase the topic.

This was a "Hate Crime" against Christians at a Catholic School by a Transgender He/She. 

Based on what?  Isn't this just "another crazy person with a gun" like all the other school shootings?  

(03-28-2023, 07:26 PM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: I'm confused as to how people are to be "better parents" when "better parenting" now a days is basically shutting the hell up and letting your child do whatever they want to do and not impeding on their life choices.

I'm confused on why you think that.  But I get confused by a lot of things you think.

I guess we'll have to wait for a generation in Florida, for example, and see if the "freedom" that DeSantis is giving parents to keep their kids for seeing anything they don't want to will make for less gun violence and less mental illness.

I'm a parent.  We did what we thought was best for both our daughter and son.  Are they perfect?  Nah.  No one is.  Do they have their own issues?  Sure.  We all do.  But be parented them to seek help and to not want to kill people.  


Maybe she was raised the same...we don't know.  But because she is one of four non-cis mass shooters in the last 20+ years I guess that is the point the right will grab on to in order to NOT talk about more children being killed in school.