Anthem Protest Bengals

[GMDino]

(08-23-2017, 10:08 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Perfect solution. I blame the media for most of this nonsense as I've clearly stated before. The media are those kids in a circle on the playground yelling "fight, fight, fight, fight," as two kids who really in their hearts don't want to hurt each other, are peered into doing so. However, on this scale, it's much larger and people die. Yet, it's highly acceptable to the media because their currency is violence and fear. While ours is peace and unity. You can't have peace when fear lives in your hearts.

When a fan runs onto the field the television cameras will not show it.  They don't want to encourage people to break the rules.

When a player kneels or sits during the anthem he/she is highlighted.  They aren't breaking any rules.

If people would talk about the topic they are bringing attention too (right or wrong) versus whether he/she is doing something "wrong" just to get that attention we might be better off.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(08-23-2017, 08:28 PM)Millhouse Wrote: CK wore X hats, X shirts, pro-Castro shirts, and who knows what else during press conferences with the 49rs. Pretty sure one reason the Fins passed on him was due to the large Cuban population in the area. He wasnt a good guy, but hated America which is probably why CK wore it, as I think he has been 'radicalized' to some extent of hating America. Hence what he wears and his style of hair & beard choice. Cause if he loves America, he has a very odd way of showing it.

All true.....what I meant was that he could have held his own presser to convey his message.

[Vlad]

You can be sure that what is NOT going through the minds of these black millionaires is that if only their ancestors were never brought to this country black people would be better off.

Appreciate and honor your ancestors who have suffered immensely so that you can live in the greatest nation on earth and stand up for the anthem.

America has produced more famous black personalities and more black millionaires than anywhere on earth.
 
Name 5 famous blacks from all of Europe without resorting to Google?
How about all of Africa?

Stand up for the anthem you bunch of attention seeking prima donnas.

 

[Vlad]

(08-24-2017, 11:40 AM)GMDino Wrote: When a fan runs onto the field the television cameras will not show it.  They don't want to encourage people to break the rules.

When a player kneels or sits during the anthem he/she is highlighted.  They aren't breaking any rules.

If people would talk about the topic they are bringing attention too (right or wrong) versus whether he/she is doing something "wrong" just to get that attention we might be better off.

They televise the national anthem during regular season games?

I thought they only televised the anthem at the Super Bowl.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-23-2017, 06:38 PM)Nately120 Wrote: it could be said that you are wrong on both counts.  

Sure, it could be said but that doesn't make it true.

Kaepernick stated he is protesting because the flag represents a country that "oppresses black people and people of color." That's just not true, not anymore. He also objected to the "people getting paid leave and getting away with murder." Clearly a reference to cops shooting black people. There is SOME truth to what he said about this, though it's not as cut and dried as he made it seem. Hence why I said it's "just not really true". Meaning there's SOME truth, but basically most of it isn't.


More importantly, his protesting of the anthem has done absolutely nothing to stop America from oppressing black people and people of color nor has it stopped cops from killing civilians.


That's not to say he hasn't done some good things since. I've heard he's made some generous donations to charitable organizations, but as I told a friend of mine this morning (who half of his Facebook posts are pro-Kaepernick stories), as a celebrity, Kaep has to recognize he cannot just do a simple act of protest because, like it or not, it's going to end up being about him and not his cause and I think that goes for pretty much all celebrities. 

[GMDino]

(08-24-2017, 12:25 PM)Vlad Wrote: They televise the national anthem during regular season games?

I thought they only televised the anthem at the Super Bowl.

They televised him kneeling.

[*jason*]

(08-23-2017, 07:59 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: It is different strokes for different folks....you'll notice I used the word some.  That said, here's the kicker....it seems a majority of people take offense to this, so why not cut it out?  We're always worried about offending this one, or offending that one, but oddly enough, we don't care who we offend with this nonsense. Pretty shitty if you ask me.

It's hard to tell if it's a case of the majority not liking the protest. It could be that there is a silent majority that couldn't care less about it either way. The squeaky wheel gets oiled. I see shit that irritates me every day. I rarely open my mouth about it. Colin Kaepernick doesn't care what I think; why should I worry about what he's doing outside of throwing passes? How does any of this affect my life or my enjoyment of a sporting event? I'm certainly not going to stop watching football games over this media circus. Who won the game? Then after that, I'll step back into reality, and get on with real life.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(08-24-2017, 01:23 PM)jason Wrote: It's hard to tell if it's a case of the majority not liking the protest. It could be that there is a silent majority that couldn't care less about it either way. The squeaky wheel gets oiled. I see shit that irritates me every day. I rarely open my mouth about it. Colin Kaepernick doesn't care what I think; why should I worry about what he's doing outside of throwing passes? How does any of this affect my life or my enjoyment of a sporting  event? I'm certainly not going to stop watching football games over this media circus. Who won the game? Then after that, I'll step back into reality, and get on with real life.

Very true.....I guess all I'm going off of is what you read, and what I hear from people I know.  I don't particularly like it, but it won't stop me from watching a game.  I might have a jaded opinion about any player that partakes, but ultimately move on.  I rarely speak on anything that irritates me either.....but since this was a discussion on an anonymous message board, I chimed in my 2 cents.

[*jason*]

(08-24-2017, 01:37 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Very true.....I guess all I'm going off of is what you read, and what I hear from people I know.  I don't particularly like it, but it won't stop me from watching a game.  I might have a jaded opinion about any player that partakes, but ultimately move on.  I rarely speak on anything that irritates me either.....but since this was a discussion on an anonymous message board, I chimed in my 2 cents.

My only real beef with any of it was that it didn't seem all that well thought out. He sat a time or two before it became a story. He then spoke on it. When he did speak on it, he didn't articulate it very well. People got mad, and offended. He then decided to kneel. Now I hear he won't kneel anymore. Stick to your guns man. He had to know it was gonna rub people wrong. Wavering only brings more derision from people who oppose it for whatever reason. It's already hard enough to go from flat bill hat and sneaker guy to Huey P. Newton over night too. I think very few take him seriously.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(08-24-2017, 01:46 PM)jason Wrote: My only real beef with any of it was that it didn't seem all that well thought out. He sat a time or two before it became a story. He then spoke on it. When he did speak on it, he didn't articulate it very well. People got mad, and offended. He then decided to kneel. Now I hear he won't kneel anymore. Stick to your guns man. He had to know it was gonna rub people wrong. Wavering only brings more derision from people who oppose it for whatever reason. It's already hard enough to go from flat bill hat and sneaker guy to Huey P. Newton over night too. I think very few take him seriously.

Those are good points too.......and the reason behind me saying he needed to hold a presser, or take to social media or something to get his message out and to the forefront instead of this, which offends some people.  I also agree, if you're gonna do it, stick your guns.  I applaud and champion his message, it's his delivery method I don't care much for.....

[Au165]

(08-24-2017, 12:16 PM)Vlad Wrote: You can be sure that what is NOT going through the minds of these black millionaires is that if only their ancestors were never brought to this country black people would be better off.

Appreciate and honor your ancestors who have suffered immensely so that you can live in the greatest nation on earth and stand up for the anthem.

America has produced more famous black personalities and more black millionaires than anywhere on earth.
 
Name 5 famous blacks from all of Europe without resorting to Google?
How about all of Africa?

Stand up for the anthem you bunch of attention seeking prima donnas.

 

Are you saying they should be grateful their ancestors were slaves? As if their ancestors couldn't have immigrated here like all of ours did without having to endure slavery? Am I understanding this correctly?

[SunsetBengal]

(08-24-2017, 01:46 PM)jason Wrote: My only real beef with any of it was that it didn't seem all that well thought out. He sat a time or two before it became a story. He then spoke on it. When he did speak on it, he didn't articulate it very well. People got mad, and offended. He then decided to kneel. Now I hear he won't kneel anymore. Stick to your guns man. He had to know it was gonna rub people wrong. Wavering only brings more derision from people who oppose it for whatever reason. It's already hard enough to go from flat bill hat and sneaker guy to Huey P. Newton over night too. I think very few take him seriously.

Looks like it won't really matter much, as he'll be able to do whichever he feels like, from the comfort of his own home.

Speaking of, I heard one of the weekend sports guys debating this topic with a guest recently.  They happened to mention that he turned down an offer for just under a million, to be on an NFL roster.  They went on to really break down why he hasn't been signed by any teams to compete for a starting job.  Those reasons being;  He is a "unique" athletic talent, and not necessarily a good QB.  Meaning that in order for him to have success, you have to design an offensive playbook around his strengths, you can't just plug him into most systems and expect him to excel.  They went on to say that with that in mind, only about 4-5 teams run offenses geared to his strengths, and they are comfortable with what they have at QB, and are unwilling to pay him what he wants to be the #2.  

Basically, they decided that the reason he was unsigned has more to do with him being a bad QB, than it does with his attention grabbing political protest.

[Devils Advocate]

There is positively zero evidence to support american being 'the greatest country ever'. None. Actually, there's plenty of facts proving otherwise.

Maybe servicemen/woman died defending our freedoms, maybe. However I'd like to know when & where this took place. Was it WW2? I suppose I could be convinced but outside of that one war, no they have not defended our rights. Look no further than the topic of this thread for evidence of that.

Sorry, but anyone that disagrees with any form of protest is nothing more than a useful idiot. Therein lies the shame of this whole topic. Good luck hashing it out. They have you right where they want you & you don't even realize it.

[*Nately120*]

(08-24-2017, 11:31 AM)Vlad Wrote: Its bigger than just offending someone. If I have to explain you wouldn't understand.

I guess so.  We've seen you have a far greater ability to let the actions of strangers get up your ass than I do, that's for sure.  Forcing people to stand for the anthem cheapens it for those of us who do it willingly.  So far the only owner I've seen who has said "Stand up or you're fired" is Jerry Jones.  I suppose the rest of those owners have 24 hours to say the same or the patriotism brigade will be changing their allegiances.

(08-24-2017, 05:44 PM)Devils Advocate Wrote: There is positively zero evidence to support american being 'the greatest country ever'. None. Actually, there's plenty of facts proving otherwise. 

Maybe servicemen/woman died defending our freedoms, maybe. However I'd like to know when & where this took place. Was it WW2? I suppose I could be convinced but outside of that one war, no they have not defended our rights. Look no further than the topic of this thread for evidence of that. 

Sorry, but anyone that disagrees with any form of protest is nothing more than a useful idiot. Therein lies the shame of this whole topic. Good luck hashing it out. They have you right where they want you & you don't even realize it.

A lot of it comes down to people finding their own gripes/protests/complaints with this country to be "for the good of the country" and the gripes/protests/complaints they don't agree with to be offensive or against the troops, or treasonous.  

[*PhilHos*]

(08-24-2017, 05:44 PM)Devils Advocate Wrote: There is positively zero evidence to support american being 'the greatest country ever'. None. Actually, there's plenty of facts proving otherwise.

While there is certain data that can be used to show America is not the greatest country, there are also things you can point to as supporting the possibility that America IS the greatest country (i.e. being the lone superpower yet the youngest country; the amount of immigrants - legal AND illegal - that come or try to come here every year, etc.)

(08-24-2017, 05:44 PM)Devils Advocate Wrote: Maybe servicemen/woman died defending our freedoms, maybe. However I'd like to know when & where this took place. Was it WW2? I suppose I could be convinced but outside of that one war, no they have not defended our rights. Look no further than the topic of this thread for evidence of that. 

What? "Maybe" they defended our freedoms? Start with the Revolutionary War and work your way forward through history and there may be an armed conflict or two that you could argue was not a defense of America's freedoms (like Vietnam or Iraq), the majority were.

Heck, one could argue that just by joining the armed forces, a man or woman is sacrificing his or her life in defense of America's freedoms. So maybe you might want to get your disrespect for our fallen soldiers checked out.

(08-24-2017, 05:44 PM)Devils Advocate Wrote: Sorry, but anyone that disagrees with any form of protest is nothing more than a useful idiot. 

Seeing as how your protesting the people in here protesting Kaep's protest, then you just called yourself an idiot. Well done.

[masonbengals fan]

(08-24-2017, 03:54 PM)Au165 Wrote: Are you saying they should be grateful their ancestors were slaves? As if their ancestors couldn't have immigrated here like all of ours did without having to endure slavery? Am I understanding this correctly?

Huh?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-22-2017, 01:28 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: It is their right. It is our right to chastise them for making entertainment we pay for a political statement without consequence. I see so much hatred and violence daily in places like Chicago and other cities. I see no athlete or entertainer protest this black on black crime. Why? Why do they tolerate and turn a blind eye to these issues? My point is there are many issues we face and there is a way to address them all and disrespecting the anthem and the flag do nothing but incite more hate and violence by sparking the emotions of Patriots who flat out hate anyone disrespecting the flag ans those who fought to insure we can peacefully protest.

Find another way to be heard, this is just making it worse in my opinion.

As a former service member, I'm not upset they are exercising their rights service members fought to secure. Although, I don't like the method they chose to protest. I think it is ironic the so called patriots get upset at them for the exercising their rights. Personally, I'm more embarrassed by Mike Brown's menagerie of miscreants like Pacman Jones, Joe Mixon, and et al.

[SunsetBengal]

(08-24-2017, 06:34 PM)PhilHos Wrote: While there is certain data that can be used to show America is not the greatest country, there are also things you can point to as supporting the possibility that America IS the greatest country (i.e. being the lone superpower yet the youngest country; the amount of immigrants - legal AND illegal - that come or try to come here every year, etc.)

Well Phil, I look at it like this.  Why is the US the Nation that the most people on Earth want to come and live in?  How many other Nations not only allow, but pay, for their young to go to college, weather their good academics or not?  What other Nation can you come in as a nobody, work your tail off, and rise to success at the vocation of your own choosing?  How many other Nations allow their citizens to speak their mind freely, even if it is negative toward the Government?   The answer to all of these?  Not many.

Yes, the USA is the Greatest Nation ever.  (to this point, anyway)  

[*Nately120*]

(08-24-2017, 07:04 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: As a former service member, I'm not upset they are exercising their rights service members fought to secure. Although, I don't like the method they chose to protest. I think it is ironic the so called patriots get upset at them for the exercising their rights. Personally, I'm more embarrassed by Mike Brown's menagerie of miscreants like Pacman Jones, Joe Mixon, and et al.

Agreed.  I feel as though your zeal for freedom isn't really tested until you have to grit your teeth and accept people's rights to do something you can't stand.  My issue with the "respect the flag" mantra isn't the sentiment itself, but the possibility that we believe people fought and died for "the flag" more than the other aspects of this country.

My cynical side sees this move towards elevating the flag as a symbol above all else as a tactic to minimize the concept that people fought and died for freedoms the government is trying to oppress (with lots of support, in many cases), the actual air we breathe, the water we drink, and the soil upon which we live and so on and so forth.  Not only is it NOT an insult to veterans when we rape the very land we claim to love, many patriots cheer the removal of the laws that protect it.

It just leads me to thinking that certain political entities want us to respect the flag above all else because then they can salute the hell out of that thing while they compromise the freedoms and the land people fought and died defending.  I'm not accusing the "Stand up while the anthem plays or get out of my country" types, so much as I feel like they are missing the bigger picture.

Again, we each have our own lives and experiences. My ol man was a hippie veteran and my best pal is an ultra-liberal black major in the army. Both of them had a list of stories where armchair patriots had no qualms telling them what REALLY happened "over there" and why the narrative the media sells us is the right one and blah blah blah. Meh, I just feel like saying they fought for "the flag" opens to door to minimization of what they really fought for. Well, my ol' man was in Nam so he just fought for his damn life, I guess.

[Vlad]

(08-24-2017, 08:00 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Agreed.  I feel as though your zeal for freedom isn't really tested until you have to grit your teeth and accept people's rights to do something you can't stand.  My issue with the "respect the flag" mantra isn't the sentiment itself, but the possibility that we believe people fought and died for "the flag" more than the other aspects of this country.

My cynical side sees this move towards elevating the flag as a symbol above all else as a tactic to minimize the concept that people fought and died for freedoms the government is trying to oppress (with lots of support, in many cases), the actual air we breathe, the water we drink, and the soil upon which we live and so on and so forth.  Not only is it NOT an insult to veterans when we rape the very land we claim to love, many patriots cheer the removal of the laws that protect it.

It just leads me to thinking that certain political entities want us to respect the flag above all else because then they can salute the hell out of that thing while they compromise the freedoms and the land people fought and died defending.  I'm not accusing the "Stand up while the anthem plays or get out of my country" types, so much as I feel like they are missing the bigger picture.

Again, we each have our own lives and experiences.  My ol man was a hippie veteran and my best pal is an ultra-liberal black major in the army.  Both of them had a list of stories where armchair patriots had no qualms telling them what REALLY happened "over there" and why the narrative the media sells us is the right one and blah blah blah.  Meh, I just feel like saying they fought for "the flag" opens to door to minimization of what they really fought for.  Well, my ol' man was in Nam so he just fought for his damn life, I guess.

With only two words you've made your feelings toward the flag quite clear, rendering the rest of your post meaningless.