Antifa: need to know

[StLucieBengal]

(08-18-2017, 02:47 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I was going to mention this before Dino posted it, but I will say that I personally know clergy that were defended by antifa folks. These clergy very much disagree with them, but they were defended from unprovoked attacks by the racist shitstains. Broad brushes don't work.


Classical liberalism is something that contemporary liberalism, conservatism, and libertarianism all fit into. Trying to compare classical liberalism with the contemporary liberalism we see in modern day society is not a valid comparison. Especially when you refer to them as "basically socialists," which is extremely false and comes from a position of ignorance regarding what socialism actually is.

1. So because an antifa member defended a clergy member they are suddenly alright? Pretty sure we could find a white supremecist who defended someone from antifa as well.... does this make the white supremecists alright?

It's all nonsense and the attempt to normalize antifa by leftists media outlets is pretty crazy.

Antifa is in the same boat with white supremecists, Nazi's, and BLM.

2. Classic liberalism is wonderful. We used to have a debate in this country between the classic liberal and the conservative. What we ended up with pretty small government that protected people's rights to live their own lives.

The progressives were blown out after Woodrow wilson and they worked from there to co-op the democrat party under the liberal banner. Needless to say we have changed to more of a socialism system since then.... which is the problem. We have centralized power to the executive branch for too many things, which started under progressives.... with wilson.

[GMDino]

Still not siding with the Nazis.

Shout 'em down!

[StLucieBengal]

(08-18-2017, 03:28 PM)GMDino Wrote: Still not siding with the Nazis.

Shout 'em down!

You will just side with communist enforcers.

Good to know .

[GMDino]

(08-18-2017, 03:38 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: You will just side with communist enforcers.  

Good to know .

Just like my grandfathers did.

And then we turn our attention to them if they want to anti-american!

[*PhilHos*]

(08-18-2017, 03:28 PM)GMDino Wrote: Still not siding with the Nazis.

I'm confused. Why do you keep saying this? No one's asking you to side with Nazis.

[GMDino]

(08-18-2017, 03:47 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I'm confused. Why do you keep saying this? No one's asking you to side with Nazis.

Because all this talk about what the other side may or may not have done is just distracting from the fact that there are honest to jebus Nazis in America and we need to fight them.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.  Shut down the Nazis and then deal with the aftermath.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

(08-18-2017, 03:43 PM)GMDino Wrote: Just like my grandfathers did.

And then we turn our attention to them if they want to anti-american!

you do know that Nazi Germany and Communist Russia were allies when Poland was invaded right?

Both Germany and Russia invaded Poland, that's why Poland fell in only six weeks.

Both didn't like each other and didnt trust each other but they were still allies.

It wasn't until Russia's invasion of one country I can't remember with Germany support that Germany saw Russia as weak since Russia screwed it up. That's when Churchill took advantage and sowed the seeds to get Germany to invade Russia earlier. Russia believed they had at least two years to get ready to fight Germany but spies from England planted the seeds that Russia would be ready much sooner.

So you are one of those "Enemy of my enemy" type people that doesn't care that Communist Russia murdered 80 million people and focus on Germany murdering 52 million people? Both are bad but...right?

[GMDino]

(08-18-2017, 04:24 PM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: you do know that Nazi Germany and Communist Russia were allies when Poland was invaded right?

Both Germany and Russia invaded Poland, that's why Poland fell in only six weeks.

Both didn't like each other and didnt trust each other but they were still allies.

It wasn't until Russia's invasion of one country I can't remember with Germany support that Germany saw Russia as weak since Russia screwed it up. That's when Churchill took advantage and sowed the seeds to get Germany to invade Russia earlier. Russia believed they had at least two years to get ready to fight Germany but spies from England planted the seeds that Russia would be ready much sooner.

So you are one of those "Enemy of my enemy" type people that doesn't care that Communist Russia murdered 80 million people and focus on Germany murdering 52 million people? Both are bad but...right?

Well aware.  

Nazis are in America.  If one part of one group is getting flack for fighting them so be it.  Fight the Nazis. I don't believe if we beat the Nazi that this anifa group will suddenly become the USSR.  

[*PhilHos*]

(08-18-2017, 03:59 PM)GMDino Wrote: Because all this talk about what the other side may or may not have done is just distracting from the fact that there are honest to jebus Nazis in America and we need to fight them.

Yeah, f*** Nazis! We need to destroy them. Heather Heyer was just collateral damage in a larger war! 

[Nebuchadnezzar]

(08-18-2017, 04:29 PM)GMDino Wrote: Well aware.  

Nazis are in America.  If one part of one group is getting flack for fighting them so be it.  Fight the Nazis. I don't believe if we beat the Nazi that this anifa group will suddenly become the USSR.  

So are Cummunists.

You support one to fight the other. Both are bad so fight both, get them out of here, all of them. 

[GMDino]

(08-18-2017, 04:37 PM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: So are Cummunists.

You support one to fight the other. Both are bad so fight both, get them out of here, all of them. 

One is looking to exterminate entire groups of people: Blacks, jews, etc.

I'll take my chances with getting rid of the Nazis first.

Edit: As I said earlier this not an endorsement of communism....this is seeing the Nazis as a much bigger threat.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-18-2017, 04:29 PM)GMDino Wrote: Nazis are in America.  If one part of one group is getting flack for fighting them so be it.  Fight the Nazis. I don't believe if we beat the Nazi that this anifa group will suddenly become the USSR.  

Fight the Nazis! F*** the Constitution! American Nazis don't deserve the rights afforded to them by the Bill of Rights! This won't have repercussions AT ALL! 

What's funny is that if this were say St. Lucie saying this about Muslims, Dino would be very critical of him. But, it's Nazis. F*** the Nazis and damn the Constitution to do so.

[*jason*]

(08-18-2017, 04:24 PM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: you do know that Nazi Germany and Communist Russia were allies when Poland was invaded right?

Both Germany and Russia invaded Poland, that's why Poland fell in only six weeks.

Both didn't like each other and didnt trust each other but they were still allies.

It wasn't until Russia's invasion of one country I can't remember with Germany support that Germany saw Russia as weak since Russia screwed it up. That's when Churchill took advantage and sowed the seeds to get Germany to invade Russia earlier. Russia believed they had at least two years to get ready to fight Germany but spies from England planted the seeds that Russia would be ready much sooner.

So you are one of those "Enemy of my enemy" type people that doesn't care that Communist Russia murdered 80 million people and focus on Germany murdering 52 million people? Both are bad but...right?

Germany was always going to invade the Soviet Union. It was going for the oil fields and the "bread basket" for the Reich. On top of that Russians are Slavic, and were going to be wiped out too.

[Belsnickel]

(08-18-2017, 03:25 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: 1. So because an antifa member defended a clergy member they are suddenly alright? Pretty sure we could find a white supremecist who defended someone from antifa as well.... does this make the white supremecists alright?

It's all nonsense and the attempt to normalize antifa by leftists media outlets is pretty crazy.

Antifa is in the same boat with white supremecists, Nazi's, and BLM.

Nice try with the straw man. My argument was summed up in my last argument: broad brushes don't work. I never said they were alright, only that you're broad statements don't work.

(08-18-2017, 03:25 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: 2. Classic liberalism is wonderful. We used to have a debate in this country between the classic liberal and the conservative. What we ended up with pretty small government that protected people's rights to live their own lives.

The progressives were blown out after Woodrow wilson and they worked from there to co-op the democrat party under the liberal banner. Needless to say we have changed to more of a socialism system since then.... which is the problem. We have centralized power to the executive branch for too many things, which started under progressives.... with wilson.

And you have, in this section as well, completely ignored what I have typed in order to spew out repetitive talking points that show your understanding of these topics is extremely shallow, likely based on misinformed blog posts and Wikipedia entries.

[StLucieBengal]

(08-18-2017, 05:45 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Nice try with the straw man. My argument was summed up in my last argument: broad brushes don't work. I never said they were alright, only that you're broad statements don't work.


And you have, in this section as well, completely ignored what I have typed in order to spew out repetitive talking points that show your understanding of these topics is extremely shallow, likely based on misinformed blog posts and Wikipedia entries.

You do realize that you prop up antifa by not blasting them. Your excuse of "Nazi's" is just giving you cover to make antifa out as if they are somehow the good guys.

We get it .... you don't like white supremecists..... no one here does.... but there are several here who are also blasting antifa for what they stand for and heir actions. And then there are several here who let antifa slide because they are attacking white supremacists so somehow their actions are permissable.

I wonder what group you are in......

[Belsnickel]

(08-18-2017, 06:11 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: You do realize that you prop up antifa by not blasting them. Your excuse of "Nazi's" is just giving you cover to make antifa out as if they are somehow the good guys.

We get it .... you don't like white supremecists..... no one here does.... but there are several here who are also blasting antifa for what they stand for and heir actions. And then there are several here who let antifa slide because they are attacking white supremacists so somehow their actions are permissable.

I wonder what group you are in......

Not the one you think, because you apparently don't understand my posts. I've stated my issues with antifa many times, especially since this weekend. I just don't paint them all with a broad brush that is erroneous. That's all I have pointed out, but you continuously attempt to claim I am saying things I am not.

[StLucieBengal]

(08-18-2017, 06:36 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Not the one you think, because you apparently don't understand my posts. I've stated my issues with antifa many times, especially since this weekend. I just don't paint them all with a broad brush that is erroneous. That's all I have pointed out, but you continuously attempt to claim I am saying things I am not.

You have been the only leftist here to admonish them. Others cheer them on.

You also spend time glossing over their actions to make out that the white supremecists are worse.

[Belsnickel]

(08-18-2017, 07:38 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: You have been the only leftist here to admonish them. Others cheer them on.

You also spend time glossing over their actions to make out that the white supremecists are worse.

There is a unifying ideology to the white supremacists of racism. There is no unifying ideology to antifa apart from objecting to that. I disagree with their tactics, but I recognize that it is not an ideological equivalent to racist shit stains. That is my viewpoint on the overarching issue, and why I do, indeed, find the white supremacists more objectionable on a large scale.

As for Charlottesville specifically, the white supremacists attacked clergy, who were then defended by antifa. The talking point being spewed that they are against anyone that is not in line with their ideology is eroded by this fact, along with the lack of a unifying ideology.

[StLucieBengal]

(08-18-2017, 07:48 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: There is a unifying ideology to the white supremacists of racism. There is no unifying ideology to antifa apart from objecting to that. I disagree with their tactics, but I recognize that it is not an ideological equivalent to racist shit stains. That is my viewpoint on the overarching issue, and why I do, indeed, find the white supremacists more objectionable on a large scale.

As for Charlottesville specifically, the white supremacists attacked clergy, who were then defended by antifa. The talking point being spewed that they are against anyone that is not in line with their ideology is eroded by this fact, along with the lack of a unifying ideology.

So two wrongs make a right in your book.

Without antifa stirring it up ever think there would be riot..... how many white supremacists protests have gone by without incident before antifa?

Between antifa and the police not stepping in sooner to stop antifa this whole thing could have been avoided.

[Belsnickel]

(08-18-2017, 07:51 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: So two wrongs make a right in your book.

I have zero idea how you got that from my post.

(08-18-2017, 07:51 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Without antifa stirring it up ever think there would be riot..... how many white supremacists protests have gone by without incident before antifa?

Plenty. Plenty of liberal rallies have gone on without incident without right-wing nutjobs, as well. But, before antifa existed there were plenty of racist rallies that resulted in violence. This just happened to be the largest racist rally in decades. Saying antifa is to blame for any violence in opposition to a racist rally is wrong.

(08-18-2017, 07:51 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Between antifa and the police not stepping in sooner to stop antifa this whole thing could have been avoided.

False. I've explained why numerous times. Could the result have been better had the police gained control quicker? Yes. But the racists instigated a lot of the violence, and a lot of it against peaceful counter-protesters, so blaming antifa doesn't jive with what happened. They didn't help the situation, but they aren't to blame for it. The racists proved that by attacking non-violent counter-protesters on Friday night and on Saturday.