Antisemitism

[BmorePat87]

The last few years saw a number of stories about antisemitism from the right, but with the growth of BLM in the last two months, we have seen a new form of antisemitism occur within those groups.

From celebrities like DeSean Jackson, Stephen Jackson, and Nick Cannon, people have been pushing antisemitic rhetoric, including globalist conspiracy theories, fake quotes from Hitler, and quotes from the Nation of Islam to promote anti-semitism as a fight against racism and black identity. The typical message seems to be pushing the narrative of Black Hebrews being the true chosen people and White Jewish people fighting to keep them done and joining with racist Christians to keep that fact hidden. Sometimes it also includes imagery of powerful and rich Jewish people controlling global events, which includes racial inequality. I've also seen cases where Henry Ford's antisemitic The International Jew literature is pushed.

I actually tackled anti-semitic conspiracy theories in class, but the recent revival in them requires additional attention. This hits close to home because my wife is Jewish (and it's one of the reasons she doesn't feel comfortable displaying a menorah or mezuzah thanks to these few instances) and any kid we have would be raised Jewish as well, but it's also a matter of being against hate.

Antisemitism is unfortunately too widely accepted, to the point where people who claim to be fighting against bigotry will use it to develop a common enemy to fight against.

[fredtoast]

Very much complicated by the Christians in this country being so devoted to supporting Israel.

US gives Israel over $10 million dollars PER DAY ($3.8 billion in 2019) in foreign aid, and some politicians still claim we are "abandoning them".

[*jason*]

(07-16-2020, 11:39 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: The last few years saw a number of stories about antisemitism from the right, but with the growth of BLM in the last two months, we have seen a new form of antisemitism occur within those groups.

From celebrities like DeSean Jackson, Stephen Jackson, and Nick Cannon, people have been pushing antisemitic rhetoric, including globalist conspiracy theories, fake quotes from Hitler, and quotes from the Nation of Islam to promote anti-semitism as a fight against racism and black identity. The typical message seems to be pushing the narrative of Black Hebrews being the true chosen people and White Jewish people fighting to keep them done and joining with racist Christians to keep that fact hidden. Sometimes it also includes imagery of powerful and rich Jewish people controlling global events, which includes racial inequality. I've also seen cases where Henry Ford's antisemitic The International Jew literature is pushed.

I actually tackled anti-semitic conspiracy theories in class, but the recent revival in them requires additional attention. This hits close to home because my wife is Jewish (and it's one of the reasons she doesn't feel comfortable displaying a menorah or mezuzah thanks to these few instances) and any kid we have would be raised Jewish as well, but it's also a matter of being against hate.

Antisemitism is unfortunately too widely accepted, to the point where people who claim to be fighting against bigotry will use it to develop a common enemy to fight against.

I get that it's alarming that this stuff is bring spewed in general, but guys like the Jacksons have zero credibility with me. One was the first guy to follow Ron Artest into the stands to swing on fans who hadn't done anything (Artest went after the wrong guy). Stephen Jackson also fired a handgun in a strip club parking lot after getting his lip busted in some altercation. DeSean has also been a knucklehead. They do have a platform, but I don't know why anyone would take them seriously.

[Belsnickel]

(07-16-2020, 11:48 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Very much complicated by the Christians in this country being so devoted to supporting Israel.

US gives Israel over $10 million dollars PER DAY ($3.8 billion in 2019) in foreign aid, and some politicians still claim we are "abandoning them".

I read a piece a while back that talked about the whole reason evangelicals wanted to support Israel with military aid and pushing them to expand settlements is that they are trying to trigger the end times. They see the eruption of conflict in the region being a sign of the second coming. I'm oversimplifying the whole thing, but that was the big take away. They want the Jews in Israel and they want war there so Jesus will come again, it has nothing to do with their opinion of the Jewish people.

[BmorePat87]

(07-16-2020, 11:52 AM)jason Wrote: I get that it's alarming that this stuff is bring spewed in general, but guys like the Jacksons have zero credibility with me. One was the first guy to follow Ron Artest into the stands to swing on fans who hadn't done anything (Artest went after the wrong guy). Stephen Jackson also fired a handgun in a strip club parking lot after getting his lip busted in some altercation. DeSean has also been a knucklehead. They do have a platform, but I don't know why anyone would take them seriously.

Hopefully very few do, but unfortunately they all still have major influence and reach via social media. DeSean has 1.5m followers on Instagram and 900k on Twitter. S. Jackson has 900k on Instagram. Nick Cannon has 5m followers on Instagram and Twitter. 

In Nick Cannon's case, he at least gave a real apology and said he needs to learn, citing Jewish leaders who have reached out to him to make that happen. DeSean's was bullshit, but at least he is going to the Holocaust Memorial, and hopefully he can use that same reach to spread what he learns. 

but it's also present in Facebook groups that have popped up in support of movements like BLM. I still think it's a minority of supporters, but unfortunately the trend is occurring. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

I agree with the problems discussed in the OP. I do find it odd that we're only discussing the antisemitism in Cannon's podcast and not his virulent anti-white racism as well. Or as he put it, the "non-melinated".

[Belsnickel]

(07-16-2020, 02:08 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I agree with the problems discussed in the OP. I do find it odd that we're only discussing the antisemitism in Cannon's podcast and not his virulent anti-white racism as well. Or as he put it, the "non-melinated".

Honestly, I would have no idea who Cannon was were it not for people in my house watching The Masked Singer. He was the only name mentioned in this thread I knew.

I have to say, I'm not surprised at this. But my question is, if he's had this anti-white position, what the hell is Fox doing hiring him?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-16-2020, 02:12 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Honestly, I would have no idea who Cannon was were it not for people in my house watching The Masked Singer. He was the only name mentioned in this thread I knew.

I have to say, I'm not surprised at this. But my question is, if he's had this anti-white position, what the hell is Fox doing hiring him?

Money and optics.  Most questions in the entertainment industry can be answered with those two words.  

[samhain]

I think Jews are just a convenient scapegoat for just about any political discontent imaginable. The Jewish boogeyman is a classic and consistent political device that will probably never go away.

Why? Idk. I suppose that they, as an ethnic group just don't have the numbers to be as well-understood as others on a large scale. I'm not talking about understanding their history or culture. I'm talking about relating to them as just being Americans like everyone else. No matter where you live in the US, rural, urban, or suburban, you probably know a few black people. Probably more than a few. You regularly see and interact with Hispanics, and probably Asians as well.

Jews, not so much outside of urban areas and some suburbs. I can't think of any that I work with, and my employer has 8000 people per day on site (no, I don't know them all). My kid has one Jewish friend. One of my best friends was Jewish when I was a kid, but his family was literally the only Jewish family I had ever met.

I think large parts of America just don't interact with a lot of Jews and don't understand/identify with them. That makes it easy for people who want to paint them as just about anything to influence folks who know little of the culture.

[BmorePat87]

(07-16-2020, 02:08 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I agree with the problems discussed in the OP.  I do find it odd that we're only discussing the antisemitism in Cannon's podcast and not his virulent anti-white racism as well.  Or as he put it, the "non-melinated".

I was not aware of that. I had only heard about it from a Jewish friend within the context of his anti-semitic comments.

Having just read this while typing out my reply, absolutely his other comments are abhorrent. Replacing one form of hate with another doesn't solve injustice. 

I also saw a message he had where he accussed Viacom of trying to silence him for being out spoken as a black man. I can certainly understand why he feels like he is being singled out while many others have seemingly gotten away with messages of hate, but what a terrible look and excuse to make, and the response isn't to be mad about yourself but rather for others to call on all messages of hate to be treated uniformly.  

[BmorePat87]

(07-16-2020, 02:31 PM)samhain Wrote: I think Jews are just a convenient scapegoat for just about any political discontent imaginable.  The Jewish boogeyman is a classic and consistent political device that will probably never go away.

Why?  Idk.  I suppose that they, as an ethnic group just don't have the numbers to be as well-understood as others on a large scale.  I'm not talking about understanding their history or culture.  I'm talking about relating to them as just being Americans like everyone else.  No matter where you live in the US, rural, urban, or suburban, you probably know a few black people.  Probably more than a few.  You regularly see and interact with Hispanics, and probably Asians as well.  

Jews, not so much outside of urban areas and some suburbs.  I can't think of any that I work with, and my employer has 8000 people per day on site (no, I don't know them all).  My kid has one Jewish friend.  One of my best friends was Jewish when I was a kid, but his family was literally the only Jewish family I had ever met.  

I think large parts of America just don't interact with a lot of Jews and don't understand/identify with them.  That makes it easy for people who want to paint them as just about anything to influence folks who know little of the culture.

I think it's rooted in both the tradition of Christianity as well as European history. Early Christians distanced themselves from Judaism after the revolt in the first century and would continue to do so as they converted more and more. 

The meme of Jesus being killed by the Jewish people also became prevalent. 

Jewish people were scapegoats across Europe for centuries for a variety of reasons, sometimes religious and sometimes cultural. 

As you said, being such a small group plays a big role, as does their relative success. It breed resentment and ignorance.

[fredtoast]

(07-16-2020, 02:14 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Money and optics.  Most questions in the entertainment industry can be answered with those two words.  

But how does Fox make more money by hiring a guy who will piss off 99% of their viewers?

BTW I don't know who NIck Cannon is.  I am just going by your claim that he is racists against white people.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-16-2020, 02:49 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I was not aware of that. I had only heard about it from a Jewish friend within the context of his anti-semitic comments.

Having just read this while typing out my reply, absolutely his other comments are abhorrent. Replacing one form of hate with another doesn't solve injustice. 

I also saw a message he had where he accussed Viacom of trying to silence him for being out spoken as a black man. I can certainly understand why he feels like he is being singled out while many others have seemingly gotten away with messages of hate, but what a terrible look and excuse to make, and the response isn't to be mad about yourself but rather for others to call on all messages of hate to be treated uniformly.  

Quite honestly I should have typed that the media isn't discussing his anti-white statements, it was unfair to make it about this thread or those of us on this board.  I think it's very obvious that Cannon is a black supremacist and should be treated the exact same way we'd treat a white supremacist who openly espoused such virulent hatred.

[BmorePat87]

(07-16-2020, 03:28 PM)fredtoast Wrote: BTW I don't know who NIck Cannon is. 

Musician from the late 90's early 00's turned TV host. Best known for a comedy show on MTV called Wild n Out and being married to Mariah Carey for a few years. He hosts the Masked Singer on Fox. 

[fredtoast]

(07-16-2020, 02:08 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote:  I do find it odd that we're only discussing the antisemitism in Cannon's podcast and not his virulent anti-white racism as well.  Or as he put it, the "non-melinated".

Since white people have not been victims of oppression and currently control a grossly disproportionate percentage of the power and wealth in this country I think it sounds silly for them to complain about being "victims" of racism.

It's the same reason the star quarterback dating the head cheerleader doesn't cry about some wimpy freshman geek/nerd insulting him. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-16-2020, 03:34 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Since white people have not been victims of oppression and currently control a grossly disproportionate percentage of the power and wealth in this country I think it sounds silly for them to complain about being "victims" of racism.

Something is either wrong or it is not.  If it's wrong to be racist towards black people, hispanics or asians then it's wrong to be racist towards white people.  Your kind of thinking is both incongruous and dangerous.

Quote:It's the same reason the star quarterback dating the head cheerleader doesn't cry about some wimpy freshman geek/nerd insulting him. 

No, it's absolutely not.  This is a poor analogy.  If we want to confront racism then we must confront it in every form, otherwise we're not confronting it at all.

Using your analogy, it's ok to steal from a very rich person as they won't miss the money or items you took or they can just replace them.  Stealing is wrong no matter the financial status of the victim and this is absolutely no different.

[fredtoast]

(07-16-2020, 03:54 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Using your analogy, it's ok to steal from a very rich person as they won't miss the money or items you took or they can just replace them.  Stealing is wrong no matter the financial status of the victim and this is absolutely no different.

That is not "using my analogy" because I clearly stated that white people have NOT been victims of oppression.

If there is a hate crime committed against a white person by a black person based on race then I agree that the black person should be punished.

If a black person oppresses a white person in some way based on race (housing discrimination, employment discrimination, lending discrimination, etc) then the black person should be punished.

But one of the privileges of being a white person is that we don't have to deal with systemic oppression based on our race.  We control a grossly disproportionate percentage of the wealth and power in this country.  So that is why I don't cry about being a "victim of racism".

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-16-2020, 04:07 PM)fredtoast Wrote: That is not "using my analogy" because I clearly stated that white people have NOT been victims of oppression.

Sure they have, just not on a large scale.  One need look no further than Howard Stern to find a prominent example. (I realize I gave you something to nitpick here, so have at it if you like)

Quote:If there is a hate crime committed against a white person by a black person based on race then I agree that the black person should be punished.

If a black person oppresses a white person in some way based on race (housing discrimination, employment discrimination, lending discrimination, etc) then the black person should be punished.

I am pleased to hear that.

Quote:But one of the privileges of being a white person is that we don't have to deal with systemic oppression based on our race.  We control a grossly disproportionate percentage of the wealth and power in this country.  So that is why I don't cry about being a "victim of racism".

Who said anything about a "victim of racism" other than yourself?  I merely stated, correctly, that we must treat all racism as unacceptable if we're going to confront the problem.  A black supremacist should be just as unacceptable as a white supremacist.  It honestly seems like you're arguing with me just to argue with me.

[fredtoast]

(07-16-2020, 04:26 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Sure they have, just not on a large scale.  One need look no further than Howard Stern to find a prominent example. (I realize I gave you something to nitpick here, so have at it if you like)

How was Howard Stern oppressed by minorities?  What minorities had power and control over him that they abused?

[fredtoast]

(07-16-2020, 04:26 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Who said anything about a "victim of racism" other than yourself? 

You did when you compared racism to being the victim of a crime

(07-16-2020, 03:54 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Using your analogy, it's ok to steal from a very rich person as they won't miss the money or items you took