Are Democrats going to push masks and vaccines again?

[Arturo Bandini]

Extreme right people don't like to wear masks unless they show themselves marching with a nazi flag.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

Skip to 2:48 for the relevant part. For some reason it won't embed at that start point.

[Arturo Bandini]

Why do you think we care about Fauci says ? It's his role to be preventive. Even if the result isn't guaranteed.

I got vaccined for myself and only myself. Losing my breath and not able to recover it until death is not in my plans for now.

That's the only valid reason I got vaccinated.

But if it's a coin you are ready to flip, don't use masks and vaccines ... It's up to you.

BTW, you guys are never searching for solutions only for someone to blame.

[*Nately120*]

(09-05-2023, 03:26 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: BTW, you guys are never searching for solutions only for someone to blame.

That's not entirely true, I mean it would have been really easy for Trump to just say "China is attacking us with this, get the vaccine and mask up with the new TRUMP 2020" masks, and tell ol' Hop Sing where to shove it.

[BigPapaKain]

(09-02-2023, 06:35 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: Extreme right people don't like to wear masks unless they show themselves marching with a nazi flag.

That's because getting caught with a mask off in THAT situation has consequences that will affect them directly.

Everyone knows those people don't care about a problem until it becomes their problem (re: The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion).

[*michaelsean*]

(09-01-2023, 09:29 AM)pally Wrote: Gee, how dare the public health folks not being able to predict how a newly known virus would react. Hindsight is 20/20. They were offering the best advice that they knew at the time.

Or how about, if EVERYONE, had actually followed masking rules 100% of the time, and properly worn one, maybe just maybe, that 2 weeks might have been more successful.

Is that how they framed it? The best advice they knew at the time? Were all the pretentious blowhards declaring, “I believe in advice.” and calling people “advice deniers”?

[*Nately120*]

(09-05-2023, 07:46 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Is that how they framed it?  The best advice they knew at the time?  We’re all the pretentious blowhards declaring, “I believe in advice.” and calling people “advice deniers”?

Everybody believed some sort of advice they got, I just chose to follow the advice of "wear masks " over advice such as "compare yourself to a holocaust victim" or "drink your own piss" or "take horse de-wormer."  We're all pretty thin on original ideas and we're all just following someone.  We're lemmings of various shapes and forms, really.

The closest thing I heard to an original covid-related idea was my cousin's legit batshit insane wife who saw someone taking temperatures with a forehead monitor inside the doorway of her shrink's office and she responded by turning on a dime and running full speed into two lanes of traffic and almost getting hit by a car.  Now THAT no one advised. 

[StrictlyBiz]

(09-01-2023, 09:29 AM)pally Wrote: Gee, how dare the public health folks not being able to predict how a newly known virus would react.  Hindsight is 20/20.  They were offering the best advice that they knew at the time.  

Or how about, if EVERYONE, had actually followed masking rules 100% of the time, and properly worn one, maybe just maybe, that 2 weeks might have been more successful.

That was NEVER going to happen. 

I listened to my wife. She knows a thing or two. In April of 2020 she pretty much told me how this was going to progress. She was spot on. 

She said that once it was circulating, there was nothing you could do to stop it. Everyone was going to get it, probably 2 or 3 times, and that it would eventually mutate into something benign, and would eventually be one of those viruses that are called the "common cold."

No amount of masking, distancing, or closing of businesses and schools would stop it, and to think that it would was foolish. And she rolled her eyes in disgust at politicians and public officials who implied, or flat out said that it would. 

She was dumbfounded by the assertion by public officials that vaccines were better than acquired immunity and how acquired immunity was brushed aside when considering vaccine policy. 

[Luvnit2]

(09-05-2023, 04:52 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: That's because getting caught with a mask off in THAT situation has consequences that will affect them directly.

Everyone knows those people don't care about a problem until it becomes their problem (re: The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion).

Those protesters during Covid walking around shoulder to shoulder burning cities down must have infected everyone around them. My guess is those on the left cheered them on, mask or no mask. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-05-2023, 10:57 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Those protesters during Covid walking around shoulder to shoulder burning cities down must have infected everyone around them. My guess is those on the left cheered them on, mask or no mask. 

That plain fact does more to destroy the narrative around Covid than anything.  It's deadly and we need to social distance, right?  You can't even go to the beach and surf without another person within a hundred yards of you, right?  But you can pack thousands, elbow to elbow, yelling and screaming for hours?  If it was the public health emergency it was proclaimed to be then the protests would not, and should not, have been allowed.  So take your pick.  Either the virus was a huge public health hazard and we let people infect each other by the thousands anyways or it wasn't and we enforced severe restrictions on the lives of the citizenry for no good reason.  One or the other has to be true, and both are terrible options.  "We" being the government of course, and its mouthpieces.

[Shake n Blake]

(09-02-2023, 02:49 PM)Graphicguy Wrote: GD am I ever tired of this pitting Americans against each other.  

If there's a way to keep from getting sick, or limiting the severity of any illness, why wouldn't you do it?  Some get so bent about wearing a mask or getting a shot.  Are we going back to the idiocy of ingesting disinfectant?  How about shooting light into your veins?  

No one grew a tail by getting a COVID shot....nobody grew a 3rd eye.

Quit making this a one political party against the other.  It's hurtful, non-productive and serves no useful purpose.

Geesh!!!!!!

If you want to get a shot, cool. I won't shame you for it. Don't shame me for not getting one. If you want to wear a mask, cool. They should never be mandated.

Live and let live. Freedom is a nice thing. Somehow it seems like some don't want to see it this way, but that's the core issue, here. At least as far as the division is concerned.

In my view, we should all be for personal freedom. I'd rather die free than live like a coward who is willing to concede choice "for the greater good".

To me and many others, "the greater good" is maintaining that freedom that many fought to protect. Some view that as an eye-rolling cliche. I do not.

We need more compromise in this country. There is no greater compromise than leaving things to personal choice. When you force a position on the people, it's always going to cause division. Always.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(09-05-2023, 03:26 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: Why do you think we care about Fauci says ? It's his role to be preventive. Even if the result isn't guaranteed.

I got vaccined for myself and only myself. Losing my breath and not able to recover it until death is not in my plans for now.

That's the only valid reason I got vaccinated.

But if it's a coin you are ready to flip, don't use masks and vaccines ... It's up to you.

BTW, you guys are never searching for solutions only for someone to blame.

No idea why people had to get the vaccination. I have plenty of Vicks Vapor Rub, that shit is a miracle cures all, didn't your momma's teach you anything?


The vaccination is not a guarantee you won't get it. 
I'm vaccinated and still got it 2x afterwards from Kiddo getting it from his school.

[hollodero]

(09-05-2023, 11:16 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: That plain fact does more to destroy the narrative around Covid than anything.  It's deadly and we need to social distance, right?  You can't even go to the beach and surf without another person within a hundred yards of you, right?  But you can pack thousands, elbow to elbow, yelling and screaming for hours?  If it was the public health emergency it was proclaimed to be then the protests would not, and should not, have been allowed.  So take your pick.  Either the virus was a huge public health hazard and we let people infect each other by the thousands anyways or it wasn't and we enforced severe restrictions on the lives of the citizenry for no good reason.  One or the other has to be true, and both are terrible options.  "We" being the government of course, and its mouthpieces.

That is a fair point, and I for one fall on the side that the protests should not have been allowed. At the same time, I have to acknowledge that this would have been a terrible and possibly near impossible decision to make, as in throwing a torch into a powder keg. I wouldn't know how I could have handled that situation in accordance with my beliefs on the sense of social distancing rules.

Also, I don't know the exact US narrative, but here the masking and social distancing rules weren't so much meant to extinguish the virus, but to slow down the spread to not overwhelm hospitals. Which nearly happened anyway. For that reason alone, I believed some restrictions made a lot of sense - up to a point. When the more harmless variant became prevalent, the lockdowns got harder to justify.

Not to mention some measures always were exaggerated. On the one side, I understood why caution with a yet unknown virus seems like the sensible route to go. But closing down schools or disallowing access to hospital patients no matter if there's a negative covid test, things of that nature, always were questionable. I remember your story about that and heard some similar ones, and those were some terrible und unnecessary restrictions. I will, however, still defend the earlier lockdown decisions in principle. Pretty much the whole world agreed on them.

[*Nately120*]

(09-06-2023, 01:51 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: No idea why people had to get the vaccination. I have plenty of Vicks Vapor Rub, that shit is a miracle cures all, didn't your momma's teach you anything?

Nice try, but Proctor and Gamble (aka BIG PHARMA) makes Vicks.  I'm not using that stuff.

[KillerGoose]

(09-06-2023, 12:25 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: If you want to get a shot, cool. I won't shame you for it. Don't shame me for not getting one. If you want to wear a mask, cool. They should never be mandated.

Live and let live. Freedom is a nice thing. Somehow it seems like some don't want to see it this way, but that's the core issue, here. At least as far as the division is concerned.

In my view, we should all be for personal freedom. I'd rather die free than live like a coward who is willing to concede choice "for the greater good".

To me and many others, "the greater good" is maintaining that freedom that many fought to protect. Some view that as an eye-rolling cliche. I do not.

We need more compromise in this country. There is no greater compromise than leaving things to personal choice. When you force a position on the people, it's always going to cause division. Always.

Just to push further on one particular topic, do you think personal freedom has a limit where you would be ok with a temporary loss of freedom? What if COVID had a 25% mortality rate instead of <1%? If not there, is there any level of mortality where you would be okay to comply with an enforced mandate to lock down/vaccinate/wear PPE etc.? I don't mean this as a "gotcha", just genuine curiosity. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-06-2023, 07:16 AM)hollodero Wrote: That is a fair point, and I for one fall on the side that the protests should not have been allowed. At the same time, I have to acknowledge that this would have been a terrible and possibly near impossible decision to make, as in throwing a torch into a powder keg. I wouldn't know how I could have handled that situation in accordance with my beliefs on the sense of social distancing rules.

I have first hand knowledge of how angry people would have been, trust me.    But KG raises an interesting point below, what if the virus had a 20% lethality rate, would the protests have still been allowed?  Once you answer that then revisit the point I made; either the virus wasn't as deadly as they claimed, and they knew it, or they didn't know and let people expose themselves in the thousands.  Given the nature of things, and information that we've subsequently become privy to, I think the former is by far the most likely.

Quote:Also, I don't know the exact US narrative, but here the masking and social distancing rules weren't so much meant to extinguish the virus, but to slow down the spread to not overwhelm hospitals. Which nearly happened anyway. For that reason alone, I believed some restrictions made a lot of sense - up to a point. When the more harmless variant became prevalent, the lockdowns got harder to justify.

That was the stated goal here as well, but it also got mixed in with "two weeks to flatten the curve".  There was little to no transparency and the more information we get the more we realized we were not always being told the truth.  Sometimes out of ignorance, but sometimes deliberately.

Quote:Not to mention some measures always were exaggerated. On the one side, I understood why caution with a yet unknown virus seems like the sensible route to go. But closing down schools or disallowing access to hospital patients no matter if there's a negative covid test, things of that nature, always were questionable. I remember your story about that and heard some similar ones, and those were some terrible und unnecessary restrictions. I will, however, still defend the earlier lockdown decisions in principle. Pretty much the whole world agreed on them.

Yeah, I don't think I'll ever not be angry about that, which was only exacerbated when I saw the huge George Floyd funeral.  Apparently that was fine, but not an old man sitting on his wife of 50+ years deathbed.  

(09-06-2023, 10:11 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: Just to push further on one particular topic, do you think personal freedom has a limit where you would be ok with a temporary loss of freedom? What if COVID had a 25% mortality rate instead of <1%? If not there, is there any level of mortality where you would be okay to comply with an enforced mandate to lock down/vaccinate/wear PPE etc.? I don't mean this as a "gotcha", just genuine curiosity. 

People first went into the whole lockdown willingly, and gave the government a lot of leeway and benefit of the doubt.  Unfortunately, that was abused, such as Newsome's unmasked dinner for donors, and I think a sizeable percentage of our population will not trust the government on this type of issue again.  It would take a bodies stacked in the streets situation for many at this point.

[KillerGoose]

(09-06-2023, 01:24 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: People first went into the whole lockdown willingly, and gave the government a lot of leeway and benefit of the doubt.  Unfortunately, that was abused, such as Newsome's unmasked dinner for donors, and I think a sizeable percentage of our population will not trust the government on this type of issue again.  It would take a bodies stacked in the streets situation for many at this point.

That is my suspicion, I agree. Which is incredibly alarming, of course. If such a situation were to ever occur, you would have a major issue with folks not complying due to mistrust and dying in droves. I'm not sure what it would take for that trust to be restored. If it even could be. 

[Mickeypoo]

(09-06-2023, 10:11 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: Just to push further on one particular topic, do you think personal freedom has a limit where you would be ok with a temporary loss of freedom? What if COVID had a 25% mortality rate instead of <1%? If not there, is there any level of mortality where you would be okay to comply with an enforced mandate to lock down/vaccinate/wear PPE etc.? I don't mean this as a "gotcha", just genuine curiosity. 

I truly believe if Covid had a crazy excessive mortality rate across the board (all ages) then people would naturally take serious precautions.

When kids are practically not effected and the overall survivability is around 99% and the vast majority of deaths were the elderly with and without comorbidities, it becomes impossible, imo, to justify mask, vax and lockdown mandates.

I work in healthcare.  We were very busy, but never "overrun".

Then it was decided we should fire a crap ton of clinical staff who simply didn't want the vax and had already worked for over a year without it.

Just horrible optics and did nothing to help patients or keep people safe..  Also as stated earlier in the thread you had people cheering on the Summer of Love and a lot of those same people were screaming for me to be forced vaxed and masked.

[*Synric*]

(09-06-2023, 01:51 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: No idea why people had to get the vaccination. I have plenty of Vicks Vapor Rub, that shit is a miracle cures all, didn't your momma's teach you anything?


The vaccination is not a guarantee you won't get it. 
I'm vaccinated and still got it 2x afterwards from Kiddo getting it from his school.

I had Covid before and after the Pfizer vaccination. I'm not saying this happened to everyone or often but the vaccination was twice as worse as the Covid. Felt like my skin was on fire for most of the day I had to lay in a bathtub of cold water. 

[KillerGoose]

(09-06-2023, 01:35 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: I truly believe if Covid had a crazy excessive mortality rate across the board (all ages) then people would naturally take serious precautions.

When kids are practically not effected and the overall survivability is around 99% and the vast majority of deaths were the elderly with and without comorbidities, it becomes impossible, imo, to justify mask, vax and lockdown mandates.

I work in healthcare.  We were very busy, but never "overrun".

Then it was decided we should fire a crap ton of clinical staff who simply didn't want the vax and had already worked for over a year without it.

Just horrible optics and did nothing to help patients or keep people safe..  Also as stated earlier in the thread you had people cheering on the Summer of Love and a lot of those same people were screaming for me to be forced vaxed and masked.

I think they would as well, as that would be the "bodies in the street" type scenario that SSF described. I'm just curious where some peoples line is. For some, they would genuinely rather die than comply with the government, but I think they are the exception and less the rule. Most people are reasonable, despite what we may pull from the media.

I will say that at the time, my wife worked in healthcare as well. She was a sonographer. Here in Oklahoma, the hospitals were filled to the brim. They had converted several floors into holding units for COVID patients and she was worked to death. She ended up leaving healthcare after the pandemic ended. It was a terrible time for her.