Are we on the verge of a civil war?

[*pally*]

A civil war can ensue when a large group of people decides a single person is more important than the Constitution

[*Nately120*]

(08-15-2023, 02:59 PM)pally Wrote: A civil war can ensue when a large group of people decides a single person is more important than the Constitution

It's also interesting to have a war to install a leader who is nearing the age of 80.  It's crazy enough to elect a guy that old to a single 4 year term, but if we have a war that results in putting Trump into power, I assume he's not going to just be a 4 year president who is beholden by constitutional limits of a democracy now that we've subverted it, so if he keels over does Trump Jr. assume power?  How long will this war even last?  If it isn't wrapped up by 2024 or 2028 are we just going to have a mid-war election?

Are people thinking we're going to have a civil war and make Trump the president and then in 2028 we'll move on to two more candidates, or something?  As you said, a civil war for one person is pretty unusual, which is why a run of the mill coup is more likely.  Having a war to reestablish the USA not as a republic/democracy and instead going to the one-party state sort of thing when Trump supporters don't even like other republicans other than Trump...that's beyond short sighted.

Add in that Trump isn't likely to admit that we need to pass the torch once he's on his deathbed and we're going to have Trump as our leader for 0-10 years and then...what?  Are people just going to accept someone like Ron DeSantis or Trump Jr. after that?  What's the long term goal here?  A civil war to make Trump the leader of the USA...ok, we get him for a few years and then what?

[Dill]

(08-14-2023, 11:24 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: There are some borderline mentally unstable trump fanatics that do present a threat. And they can’t stand not being the loudest voice. That may be why you would feel that way. The whole thing is falling apart and unfortunately there are fanboys willing to bring everything else down with the sinking ship.

We are dealing with the type of people who will follow Qanon shaman into an assault on the capital. So you just can’t expect reason and decency imo.

This 

[Dill]

(08-14-2023, 10:59 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I will say upfront, I pray we are not.
Why do I ask? There are 80+ million people and growing that feel former POTUS Trump is getting a raw deal.
1. The F.B.I. approval rating is way under water, and appears to be getting worse by the day. It is the leadership, not the rank and file.
2. The D.O.J. approval rating in under water and showing major signs of weaponizing against conservatives, again leadership.
3. The country is in the tank with debt.
4. Citizens have more debt now that at any time in our history.
5. The average household is paying $707 more a month for essentials than they were in 2021 when Biden took office.
6. Democrats are hemorrhaging black, Latino and Hispanic voters to Republicans.

Here is a liberal poll saying the Trump indictments are political interference.
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2023/06/17/harvard-poll-most-voters-say-trump-indictment-election-interference-believe-hell-be-acquitted/

As the Trump trials go forward and people become more informed about charges and evidence, DOJ/Biden approval, will start polling upwards. 
Few independents will continue wondering how a VP could with hold a billion dollars from Ukraine, once they learn he cannot on his own say so.

I doubt more than 75% of Republicans ever believed the Big Lie. There aren't 80 million and counting who think Trump didn't bring it all on himself 
by refusing to return documents and trying to over turn an election. 

This poll question from your "liberal" poll, as presented in the Brietbart article, is rather curious.

The polling outfit asked, “Do you think indicting a former president for taking classified documents after leaving office, something done by Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, and other senior officials, is a fair application justice or selective prosecution?”

More than half of the participants, 53 percent, say that it is a “selective prosecution,” while a minority of 47 percent think the law is being applied evenly.  

But Trump was not indicted for simply taking classified documents. The question should read:

"Do you think indicting a former president for taking classified documents after leaving office, ignoring a subpoena to return them, and lying to the FBI about whether he has retained and moved them, and implicating employees in the destruction of surveillance tapes--all things Hilary Clinton, Joe Biden and other senior officials did not do--is a fair application of justice or selective prosecution? " 


The numbers of independents and Dems who respond "fair application" would certainly be higher, though Republican numbers might stay the same.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(08-14-2023, 11:29 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I'd actually be a bit interested to see what the rules are.  I live in a red area of PA, so would I be drafted into the red army and sent to march onto Pittsburgh or Erie, or since Biden won PA does that mean I'm being sent to train with the blue army to prepare for our attack on Ohio or West Virginia?  

Or is this more like my neighbor is going to notice that I'm not wearing a MAGA hat and shoot me while I'm going to work?  Will my family get veteran benefits if I'm killed in action?  

OR since I voted libertarian in the past 3 elections I may be sent to an interment camp until they can figure out where my loyalties lie.  

Guantanamo Bay

[Luvnit2]

(08-15-2023, 02:59 PM)pally Wrote: A civil war can ensue when a large group of people decides a single person is more important than the Constitution

No, it is one. large group of people feel their loyalty is being overlooked and their country is being run as a 3rd world country. It would be because people would  feel forgotten and stepped on by the other side.

SSF had a great response. A civil war in 2025 would look nothing like the north versus the south in the 1800's. it would be a political party against another political party. I agree with SSF, the foot soldiers in our military would support conservatives. I think the police would also support conservatives.

I hope it never happens, but I could see it be a state by state all out civil war.

[*Nately120*]

(08-15-2023, 05:17 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: No, it is one. large group of people feel their loyalty is being overlooked and their country is being run as a 3rd world country. It would be because people would  feel forgotten and stepped on by the other side.

SSF had a great response. A civil war in 2025 would look nothing like the north versus the south in the 1800's. it would be a political party against another political party. I agree with SSF, the foot soldiers in our military would support conservatives. I think the police would also support conservatives.

I hope it never happens, but I could see it be a state by state all out civil war.

I'm no historian, but when was the last time a country pulled itself out of 3rd world status by having a civil war?

Also, the assertion that most of the military and police would fight and kill their fellow Americans to subvert democracy may be the most liberal talking point the internet has seen all day.

[Luvnit2]

(08-15-2023, 04:24 PM)Dill Wrote: As the Trump trials go forward and people become more informed about charges and evidence, DOJ/Biden approval, will start polling upwards. 
Few independents will continue wondering how a VP could with hold a billion dollars from Ukraine, once they learn he cannot on his own say so.

I doubt more than 75% of Republicans ever believed the Big Lie. There aren't 80 million and counting who think Trump didn't bring it all on himself 
by refusing to return documents and trying to over turn an election. 

This poll question from your "liberal" poll, as presented in the Brietbart article, is rather curious.

The polling outfit asked, “Do you think indicting a former president for taking classified documents after leaving office, something done by Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, and other senior officials, is a fair application justice or selective prosecution?”

More than half of the participants, 53 percent, say that it is a “selective prosecution,” while a minority of 47 percent think the law is being applied evenly.  

But Trump was not indicted for simply taking classified documents. The question should read:

"Do you think indicting a former president for taking classified documents after leaving office, ignoring a subpoena to return them, and lying to the FBI about whether he has retained and moved them, and implicating employees in the destruction of surveillance tapes--all things Hilary Clinton, Joe Biden and other senior officials did not do--is a fair application of justice or selective prosecution? " 


The numbers of independents and Dems who respond "fair application" would certainly be higher, though Republican numbers might stay the same.

You are assuming Trump is found guilty. In my opinion, they better win every case or their all in against Trump political persecution strategy goes down the drain. As for Joe Biden, i think the Congressional committees are just getting started with proving the FB.I., D.O.J. are weaponized. The same for Joe Biden, once an impeachment inquiry is started (get ready coming in September), the committees get more subpoena power and thus access to more information.

Do you find it ironic the indictments come after something bad happens against Joe Biden. Check out the timelines, it tells a story of changing the news cycle so the Biden evidence is never discussed on liberal media.

[*Nately120*]

(08-15-2023, 05:29 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: You are assuming Trump is found guilty.

I'm assuming he's exonerated and 80+ million republicans celebrate by going on a killing spree.  Ok, I'm going to try to tap out of this thread, TRY, but man the same political party that always reminds us that our daily shootings in this country are caused by evil people with mental illness just can't stop talking about how completely imperative it is that we all shoot each other.

But you know, like instead of one evil nut shooting 4 people at a Wal Mart in Plano, we have like 80 million people shooting other people for gas prices to go down, and stuff.

[*pally*]

(08-15-2023, 05:17 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: No, it is one. large group of people feel their loyalty is being overlooked and their country is being run as a 3rd world country. It would be because people would  feel forgotten and stepped on by the other side.

SSF had a great response. A civil war in 2025 would look nothing like the north versus the south in the 1800's. it would be a political party against another political party. I agree with SSF, the foot soldiers in our military would support conservatives. I think the police would also support conservatives.

I hope it never happens, but I could see it be a state by state all out civil war.

so the soldiers everyone claims are patriotic Americans would commit treason to protect a cult leader.  Yep sounds like conservative thinking to me.  What do you see is the outcome of this potential civil war?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-15-2023, 05:17 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: No, it is one. large group of people feel their loyalty is being overlooked and their country is being run as a 3rd world country. It would be because people would  feel forgotten and stepped on by the other side.

SSF had a great response. A civil war in 2025 would look nothing like the north versus the south in the 1800's. it would be a political party against another political party. I agree with SSF, the foot soldiers in our military would support conservatives. I think the police would also support conservatives.

I hope it never happens, but I could see it be a state by state all out civil war.

You're assuming a lot based on what I actually said.  The only thing you asserted I said that I agree with is that I hope it never happens.

(08-15-2023, 05:42 PM)pally Wrote: so the soldiers everyone claims are patriotic Americans would commit treason to protect a cult leader.  Yep sounds like conservative thinking to me.  What do you see is the outcome of this potential civil war?

You're literally as blinkered as those you oppose.   The cause of such an event could be myriad.  You have a set, on option possible cause for this.  It's not confined to what pally thinks will cause it.

[*Nately120*]

(08-15-2023, 05:42 PM)pally Wrote: so the soldiers everyone claims are patriotic Americans would commit treason to protect a cult leader.  Yep sounds like conservative thinking to me.  What do you see is the outcome of this potential civil war?

Conservatives:  Don't compare us to Nazis.

Also Conservatives:  You know what would improve our economy? Killing a significant portion of our population. 

[Millhouse]

Imagine not going to Civil War after Vietnam and then Iraq 2000s, but going to Civil War because of a piece of crap New York city billionaire and because of some liberal policies by the Dems.

[*Nately120*]

(08-15-2023, 06:18 PM)Millhouse Wrote: Imagine not going to Civil War after Vietnam and then Iraq 2000s, but going to Civil War because of a piece of crap New York city billionaire and because of some liberal policies by the Dems.

Hmm you may be onto something here.  Biden needs to declare war on Russia or China or something so we aren't so keen on going to war with each other.  

[Millhouse]

(08-15-2023, 06:19 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Hmm you may be onto something here.  Biden needs to declare war on Russia or China or something so we aren't so keen on going to war with each other.  

Hah I don't think that would be the route, but as I mentioned earlier, those that hold the true power out there won't allow things to escalate that far.

[*Nately120*]

(08-15-2023, 06:40 PM)Millhouse Wrote: Hah I don't think that would be the route, but as I mentioned earlier, those that hold the true power out there won't allow things to escalate that far.

The average American also has it too good to risk taking machine gun fire to the face for politics.  It's the reason why manipulative people in the middle east say "Blow yourself up for the cause, it'll pay off!" and manipulative people here say "Give your money to me, it'll pay off!"

The Bengals have a legit shot at the SB for the next 5+ years if they play their cards right.  Anyone who posts on this board would be a fool to risk spending that time dead.

[BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI]

(08-15-2023, 06:19 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Hmm you may be onto something here.  Biden needs to declare war on Russia or China or something so we aren't so keen on going to war with each other.  

With the Russian interference in the 2016 election, Putin knew Trump was the one person who would tear this county apart at the seams.   This is due to Trump's malignant narcissism-- Putin knew it was only a matter of time before there was talk of a civil war.  With Putin's disdain for democracy, this is just a waiting game for him and then Ukraine's democracy will also fail without our support.  Putin's playing the long game here.

On the bright side according to today's ABC News poll, 70% of Americans have an unfavorable opinion of Trump.

[NATI BENGALS]

(08-15-2023, 05:17 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: large group of people feel their loyalty is being overlooked and their country is being run as a 3rd world country. It would be because people would  feel forgotten and stepped on by the other side.

LOL


 

So because a group feels their loyalty to a certain reality-tv-show-host, serial-sexual-assaulter, narcissistic, pathological-lying, conman, traitor is being overlooked.

IT'S TIME FOR A CIVIL WAR!!! YOU DON'T RESPECT MY FEALTY TO THE DON!!!

[*Nately120*]

(08-15-2023, 08:32 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: LOL


 

So because a group feels their loyalty to a certain reality-tv-show-host, serial-sexual-assaulter, narcissistic, pathological-lying, conman, traitor is being overlooked.

IT'S TIME FOR A CIVIL WAR!!! YOU DON'T RESPECT MY FEALTY TO THE DON!!!

Regardless of the type of person or president Trump is, the bottom line is that the American people elected not to keep him around for a second term.  Can Trump supporters even realize how outright stupid it is to declare that the USA resembles a 3rd world country because we elected the guy who received more EC votes rather than just letting the guy who had more violent supporters on his side stay in power?



I wonder if there is a parallel dimension where after Nixon did his thing rather than move on to Reagan the GOP just doubled down on Nixon and said if he's not put back in power there will be a civil war.

If there are infinite dimensions that means there is even one where democrats started a civil war after Dukakis lost in 88.

[Dill]

(08-15-2023, 05:29 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: You are assuming Trump is found guilty. In my opinion, they better win every case or their all in against Trump political persecution strategy goes down the drain. As for Joe Biden, i think the Congressional committees are just getting started with proving the FB.I., D.O.J. are weaponized. The same for Joe Biden, once an impeachment inquiry is started (get ready coming in September), the committees get more subpoena power and thus access to more information.

Do you find it ironic the indictments come after something bad happens against Joe Biden. Check out the timelines, it tells a story of changing the news cycle so the Biden evidence is never discussed on liberal media.

Jeezus WHAT "Biden evidence"? Still allegations, and ALWAYS "discussed on liberal media." So tiresome. But this shrill Benghazi style investigation is the noisy counterpoint to legal proceedings against the only president ever impeached twice, forced to pay for for publicly defaming his rape victim, and now indicted for a criminal conspiracy--an indictment based on documentary and visual media evidence. 

You can't fool all of the people all of the time, you know. 

I'm assuming that many people don't pay attention to politics. As they become more informed during the trials, they'll see that Trump has broken quite a few laws, and sought to overturn a valid election. It won't be merely "allegations" that he called the Georgia sec. of state, sent false information to 7 state legislatures, and orchestrated an attempt to send seven lists of fake electors to the 1/6 certification. We won't "find out" in trial that the CoC watched the Capitol riot for two hours and did nothing. We already know that. The people who signed those lists will also be on dock for criminal conspiracy to defraud the government, as will those who helped coordinate. That's "weaponization" of government. Trump wanted the DOJ to lie for him to throw an election. Smith has the memos and the witnesses--Trump's own people giving evidence. 

No one can be sure what a jury will say. 

But if Trump is NOT convicted of criminal conspiracy to throw an election, it will mean our legal system is helpless against a regime party and its leader, who do not represent a majority of Americans. Chances of civil war would likely increase as vengeful,  lawless Trump power increases. 

I don't think we are on the verge of a civil war, but if we are, then I am hoping the mass of Americans--including the military and police--will defend the democracy they have sworn to serve. There are unstable, Qanon Flynn types in the military, but they are in a minority. They already had one chance to support a Trump coup, and said "no thanks."