Attempt to unionize Amazon fails

[fredtoast]

(04-10-2021, 10:54 AM)fredtoast Wrote: What cracks me up is that in Tennessee we have what are called "right to work" laws that are actually anti-union laws.

[Belsnickel]

Have there been some shitty unions? Sure. But unions have benefits that far outweigh their costs. We've been growing out output and productivity for years and years while wages have remained stagnant, and it's no coincidence that this has happened while union membership has been on the decline.

[CKwi88]

(04-12-2021, 06:47 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Have there been some shitty unions? Sure. But unions have benefits that far outweigh their costs. We've been growing out output and productivity for years and years while wages have remained stagnant, and it's no coincidence that this has happened while union membership has been on the decline.

Yup.

I'm a part of one of the evil public sector unions. While I have my gripes with the union, and the state does as well, I'm firmly of the opinion that the good outweighs the bad. 

[Belsnickel]

(04-12-2021, 07:22 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: Yup.

I'm a part of one of the evil public sector unions. While I have my gripes with the union, and the state does as well, I'm firmly of the opinion that the good outweighs the bad. 

Being a public sector employee in a state where state agencies are prohibited by law from engaging in collective bargaining, I must point out the correlation that exists with that fact and the fact we are one of the lowest ranked states when it comes to employee compensation.

[Wes Mantooth]

(04-12-2021, 05:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote:

***Source: AFL CIO.***

[fredtoast]

(04-13-2021, 12:14 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: ***Source: AFL CIO.***

Still 100% correct unless you can post something that proves it isn't.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

Unions are why we still have Angel Hernandez and Joe West behind home plate.

/thread

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

I support literally every workers group's right to unionize. Collective bargaining benefits everyone at the same level. While there are some people who could certainly negotiate on their own for more, collective bargaining helps far more people than it hinders. I will freely admit that I use Amazon all the damn time and know I shouldn't, because they treat their workers like shit. So I'd absolutely back them in unionizing if the vote went in their favor.

[*michaelsean*]

(04-13-2021, 07:56 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I support literally every workers group's right to unionize. Collective bargaining benefits everyone at the same level. While there are some people who could certainly negotiate on their own for more, collective bargaining helps far more people than it hinders. I will freely admit that I use Amazon all the damn time and know I shouldn't, because they treat their workers like shit. So I'd absolutely back them in unionizing if the vote went in their favor.

Socialist.

[Brownshoe]

(04-14-2021, 11:41 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Socialist.

I know this is tongue and cheek, but Unions are 100% capitalistic. Getting leverage to negotiate your pay is the name of the game of capitalism, and unionizing is getting leverage. 

[Belsnickel]

(04-15-2021, 03:21 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: I know this is tongue and cheek, but Unions are 100% capitalistic. Getting leverage to negotiate your pay is the name of the game of capitalism, and unionizing is getting leverage. 

I wouldn't say 100%. Workers' rights, the entire basis of union efforts, is pretty Marxist in its groundwork. However, it is forced into the capitalist framework because that is the type of economy we are in.

[*michaelsean*]

(04-15-2021, 03:50 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I wouldn't say 100%. Workers' rights, the entire basis of union efforts, is pretty Marxist in its groundwork. However, it is forced into the capitalist framework because that is the type of economy we are in.

If you are just talking a group of people who organize and use their leverage to get more value for what they are selling, which is their labor, or on the opposite end they find they had little leverage and are replaced then that’s pretty capitalistic as far as I can tell.

[Brownshoe]

(04-15-2021, 03:50 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I wouldn't say 100%. Workers' rights, the entire basis of union efforts, is pretty Marxist in its groundwork. However, it is forced into the capitalist framework because that is the type of economy we are in.

Negotiating a fair price for the cost of your labor is pretty much the definition of capitalism. If you get more leverage because you and your coworkers team up is a part of what capitalism is. I think that people confuse corporatism with capitalism too much.

[TheUberHuber]

(04-15-2021, 03:50 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I wouldn't say 100%. Workers' rights, the entire basis of union efforts, is pretty Marxist in its groundwork. However, it is forced into the capitalist framework because that is the type of economy we are in.

More of an observation by Marx of the back and forth between the working class and the bourgeoisie in capitalist society than actual Marxism. 

Essentially,  unions are the working class response to the exploitative nature of capitalism.  

[fredtoast]

Organized labor was generally started by socialist and communist parties in the United States.

Many people don't realize how popular the Communist and Socialist parties were in the US in the early 20th century before labor unions gained a lot of power.

[Belsnickel]

(04-16-2021, 03:15 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Organized labor was generally started by socialist and communist parties in the United States.

Many people don't realize how popular the Communist and Socialist parties were in the US in the early 20th century before labor unions gained a lot of power.

So true. Prior to the Red Scare, there was a lot of popularity, there. Even further back, as well. Lincoln was known to be a fan of Marx and his writings. He wasn't completely bought in to being a socialist, but he thought very highly of Marx and his positions.

[fredtoast]

(04-16-2021, 06:47 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: So true. Prior to the Red Scare, there was a lot of popularity, there. Even further back, as well. Lincoln was known to be a fan of Marx and his writings. He wasn't completely bought in to being a socialist, but he thought very highly of Marx and his positions.

I should add that it was not just the establishment of organized labor that diminished the socialist and communist influence in the US.  World War II had a lot to do with it.