Ayn Rand and Alister Crowley

[Devils Advocate]

Does anyone know anything about her?

I threw in AC for traffic but also because they seem to have similar philosophy's in some ways.

Anyone wanna discuss these two intriguing figures?

[Penn]

What do you want to know? I'm guessing there is a wikipedia page (admittedly wikipedia isn't the greatest source but I have noticed an improvement since they started).

I know she was born in Russia. She saw the Russian Revolutions. Yeah, I made that plural. After the Tsar was deposed competing factions continued to fight until the communists won.

Not satisfied with communism she came to the place that embodied the opposite of what she didn't like in her homeland, the US.

She wrote some fiction works but wasn't satisfied for some reason and started writing non-fiction philosophical type books. She gave into her fans and wrote a final pairing of fictional novels. First was The Fountainhead. At this time she became more politically active. The second of the pairing was Atlas Shrugged. This is what I am most familiar with, as far as he non-fiction works.

The basic point behind Atlas Shrugged is there is an elite few who drive production and innovation which in turn drives the economy (Atlas since these people "carry the weight of the world"). One of the innovators, Jon Galt didn't like the way the business he was working for decided things should be run (communism) so he decided to "stop the engine of the world" (shrugged).

An irony is that story demonstrates how a true democracy would lead to communism. Communism would lead to the best and brightest no longer expending the effort to "carry the weight" since exerting extra effort doesn't result in personal gain and thus society would regress. Interesting considering what she experienced and saw in her early life, which natural born Americans can't truly comprehend..

[*bfine32*]

(05-27-2015, 11:24 PM)Devils Advocate Wrote: Does anyone know anything about her?

I threw in AC for traffic  but also because they seem to have similar philosophy's in some ways.

Anyone wanna discuss these two intriguing figures?

I know Rush's Album 2112 was written to follow Ayn Rand's Anthem. I've listened to both.

[Penn]

That is my favorite Rush album. I had no idea. Maybe I should check out Anthem.

Crowley would make a more interesting discussion if enough people here know about him. He was a wacko but some of his ideas were genius.

Tell me how a person who, as an adolescent, got angry at his parents for not allowing him do dissect his stillborn brother could come up with such a great quote as "The sin which is unpardonable is knowingly and wilfully to reject truth, to fear knowledge lest that knowledge pander not to thy prejudices.” (important to not he used the word "prejudices in it's true meaning and not what people these days take it for meaning)

[*bfine32*]

(05-27-2015, 11:56 PM)Penn Wrote: That is my favorite Rush album.  I had no idea.  Maybe I should check out Anthem.

You can download (audio) Anthem and all the other classics here:

https://librivox.org/

They are great to listen to and I do so when I workout (tells you how hard I go). Currently listening to Around the World in 80 Days

[Ben Richards]

Lots of Ayn Rand in the Bioshock video games.  In the first game the main villain's name is "Andrew Ryan".  The elites move away deep into the sea and start their own community that backfires on them eventually.  Ayn Rand is a name morons like Ted Cruz and Rand Paul throw out there in an attempt to make themselves look intelligent.  Those stupid shits should stick to hugging it out with reality star child molesters.

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[Shake n Blake]

(05-27-2015, 11:24 PM)Devils Advocate Wrote: Does anyone know anything about her?

I threw in AC for traffic  but also because they seem to have similar philosophy's in some ways.

Anyone wanna discuss these two intriguing figures?

They were both known satanists?

I'm starting to wonder about your screen name.

[Penn]

(05-28-2015, 06:02 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: They were both known satanists?

Source? By source of course I mean something that concretely ties either to satanism and NOT conjecture that loosely ties their views to similar views held by people whom profess themselves to be satanists. This includes discarding the only fact I have seen myself, which is the fact La Vey openly credited Rand with influencing some of his views (especially noteworthy in that is the fact modern "satanist" have widely discarded that title in favor of just La Veyan since they seek to distance themselves from Christianity in such a way as acknowledging "Satan")

So, again, source? Not trying to be confrontational I just have yet to see anything that concretely ties EITHER to your claim.

[Devils Advocate]

it's true that Anton Lavey acknowledges Rand and surely borrows From her philosophy's. It's also true that Neil Peart was influenced by her books during the recordings mentioned above. He's backed away from that though, at least publicly because he and the band took a lot of heat for it. Maybe, just maybe it could explain why they were such late additions to the RnR HOF while the likes of lesser talented and even lesser known artists accepted induction. Here's a decent article by Peart explaining the lunacy of satanism in his music as well as RnR in general. Hope you Rush fans take the time to read it.

I don't claim to know every thing about either Rand or Crowley. I'm just learning about Rand and I've done a cursory study of Crowley ( I thought at one point I'd delve deep into his philosophy and even considered following 'Crowleyism' ). But I've discovered some similarities between the two, at the forefront being selfishness anti Altruism, which where Rand is concerned is counter intuitive considering the Christian Right champions her philosophy or so we're led to believe.

They teach that placing yourself above the community and 'doing as thou wilt' is righteous and the only true path to happiness. Rand is anti government and for me at least, under the surface is actually anti corporation too. Even though most don't see her in this way. She believes government, where corps are concerned is the cause of such things a s monopolies and without govt interference they couldn't exist because a true free market wouldn't allow for it but because govt interferes monopolies can, have and will continue to be, even though they're 'unlawful'.
I just know many misunderstand her and or really don't know anything about her which is sad because she wields a heavy influence in today's political world. Many have heard the name and dispise her without understanding. Of course I could very well misunderstand her too. I haven't read any of her books. I've only read a lil about her and watched a few interviews.

Crowley, in my opinion wields as much influence, though that's the conspiracy theorist in me. But I've read enough to understand he most certainly shaped minds in affluent society and has ties to the 1%. I'd love to discuss him with anyone that knows.

[Penn]

Glad you can admit most misunderstand her, and I agree in some ways I might also.

One place many misunderstand Rand is your mention of anti-altruism. As stated, I read Atlas Shrugged and one other non-fiction work which I do not recall the name of. In both she promoted true charity but shows disdain for "giving" to those capable of providing for themselves.

Strip away Crowley's disdain for anything that could be considered conformity and look at some of his more out there ideas in a more realistic and tangible light - well then I think he had some great ideas and thoughts. His views on the abyss when trying to reach the true self can be groundbreaking for bettering oneself if stripped of the fantastical mentality.