Bad Boys II

[GMDino]

Since the other one is locked....

That is Anthony Wall, in prom clothes, being lifted off the ground and choked by a Warsaw County police officer @WaffleHouse. He had just taken his little sister to prom. And yet again @WaffleHouse called the cops.

Anthony, of course was unarmed & non-violent.

This is assault. pic.twitter.com/lLupZbfMcW

— Shaun King (@ShaunKing) May 10, 2018

[StLucieBengal]

Did you see where they are making a Bad Boys 3 movie. Coming 2020.

[*PhilHos*]

(05-10-2018, 10:49 PM)GMDino Wrote: Since the other one is locked....

That is Anthony Wall, in prom clothes, being lifted off the ground and choked by a Warsaw County police officer @WaffleHouse. He had just taken his little sister to prom. And yet again @WaffleHouse called the cops.

Anthony, of course was unarmed & non-violent.

This is assault. pic.twitter.com/lLupZbfMcW

— Shaun King (@ShaunKing) May 10, 2018

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/05/11/man-who-took-sister-prom-choked-waffle-house-police-officer/601431002/

Quote:The News & Observer reports Wall got into an argument with the restaurant's staff and police were called.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/11/us/waffle-house-video-police-scuffle/index.html

Quote:(CNN)Anthony Wall's night started at the prom with his sister, followed by a stop at a Waffle House in Warsaw, North Carolina. While at the restaurant, he got into a heated argument with employees, who called police.
It's unclear what happened moments before the confrontation Saturday, but cell phone video widely shared on Facebook showed an officer putting his hand around Wall's neck and shoving him up against a glass wall as he tries to arrest him.
Wall screams, "Get your hands off me!" as the officer throws him to the ground and handcuffs him.

I can't see the video, but it kinda sounds like this guy was either being an asshole to begin with or was worked up because of the Waffle House staff. I wouldn't be surprised if he was not being compliant with the officers when they showed up either. Doesn't excuse the officer if he did use excessive force, though.

[*bfine32*]

(05-10-2018, 10:49 PM)GMDino Wrote: Since the other one is locked....

That is Anthony Wall, in prom clothes, being lifted off the ground and choked by a Warsaw County police officer @WaffleHouse. He had just taken his little sister to prom. And yet again @WaffleHouse called the cops.

Anthony, of course was unarmed & non-violent.

This is assault. pic.twitter.com/lLupZbfMcW

— Shaun King (@ShaunKing) May 10, 2018

I appreciate the commentary of the expert in police affairs that was recording the incident "He's not supposed to do that.....he's nor supposed to do that....he's not supposed to put his hands on him". How does she no the protocol for a lone officer to put a person under control that is refusing to comply?

As other's have said there's a whole lot we haven't seen here, so it is difficult to assign culpability. Unless you have a previous agenda. 

[GMDino]

(05-11-2018, 05:30 PM)PhilHos Wrote: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/05/11/man-who-took-sister-prom-choked-waffle-house-police-officer/601431002/



https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/11/us/waffle-house-video-police-scuffle/index.html






I can't see the video, but it kinda sounds like this guy was either being an asshole to begin with or was worked up because of the Waffle House staff. I wouldn't be surprised if he was not being compliant with the officers when they showed up either. Doesn't excuse the officer if he did use excessive force, though.

Yep.  Should have "listened to the officer" so he wouldn't be choked against a wall.

Yep.

Now in other cases where the people WERE being compliant they just get arrested...not choked.  So....good.

Clearly we just need to station more officers at every business black people go to.  You know, just in case the are "worked up" about something. 

[*PhilHos*]

(05-11-2018, 05:34 PM)GMDino Wrote: Yep.  Should have "listened to the officer" so he wouldn't be choked against a wall.

Yep.

Now in other cases where the people WERE being compliant they just get arrested...not choked.  So....good.

Clearly we just need to station more officers at every business black people go to.  You know, just in case the are "worked up" about something. 

First off, maybe don't raise such a ruckus that the people at Waffle House, WAFFLE HOUSE, feel the need to call the cops.

Secondly, yes, when people are compliant with the police, they are rarely, if ever, choked by the police. 

Thirdly, if the police are trying to arrest you and you are not being compliant, then you are resisting arrest. At this point, they need to get you under control. Now, it's possible for the police to be too physical in trying to get you under control, but the fact remains had you been compliant from the beginning, you wouldn't be injured.

Lastly, having more police officers stationed at locations black people are at is only going to lead to more incidents like this if black people can't learn to be more compliant with police officers.

[GMDino]

(05-11-2018, 06:26 PM)PhilHos Wrote: First off, maybe don't raise such a ruckus that the people at Waffle House, WAFFLE HOUSE, feel the need to call the cops.

Secondly, yes, when people are compliant with the police, they are rarely, if ever, choked by the police. 

Thirdly, if the police are trying to arrest you and you are not being compliant, then you are resisting arrest. At this point, they need to get you under control. Now, it's possible for the police to be too physical in trying to get you under control, but the fact remains had you been compliant from the beginning, you wouldn't be injured.

Lastly, having more police officers stationed at locations black people are at is only going to lead to more incidents like this if black people can't learn to be more compliant with police officers.

Dang...I keep forgetting black people have to prove they weren't being "out of control".  Like the two guys at Starbucks, who (maybe) were (obviously) being rude so they HAD to call the cops.  And then, despite the videos, must have done something to get arrested and jailed for eight hours.  We'll just assume the person who called the police couldn't be racist...I mean it would be so hard to imagine.  Just like Starbucks.

Stupid black people. 

But then I hold police to a higher standard.  One that many more seem to be unable to uphold.

[*bfine32*]

(05-11-2018, 09:55 PM)GMDino Wrote: Dang...I keep forgetting black people have to prove they weren't being "out of control".  Like the two guys at Starbucks, who (maybe) were (obviously) being rude so they HAD to call the cops.  And then, despite the videos, must have done something to get arrested and jailed for eight hours.  We'll just assume the person who called the police couldn't be racist...I mean it would be so hard to imagine.  Just like Starbucks.

Stupid black people. 

But then I hold police to a higher standard.  One that many more seem to be unable to uphold.

With your high standards of upholding: What would you have done it a business owner called you as a LEO, explained that there was someone at their place of business causing a disturbance, and when you got there the person in question didn't comply with your requests?

NOIAWYWD. 

[GMDino]

(05-11-2018, 10:20 PM)bfine32 Wrote: With your high standards of upholding: What would you have done it a business owner called you as a LEO, explained that there was someone at their place of business causing a disturbance, and when you got there the person in question didn't comply with your requests?

NOIAWYWD. 

Personally?  I'd use my training in de-escalation to try and calm down everyone (especially those wound up black people) and see if the situation really needed an officer called before choking a guy and throwing him to the ground for "resisting".

Of course that would have to mean a) such training was offered/required b) such training was learned.

This incident seems to be an upset customer and a manager...the kind of thing that usually can be handled by one side remaining calm and the other leaving.

But, again, I hold police to a higher standard given their ability to take away your property, freedom and life.  Maybe the people training them don't feel that way.  Maybe the ones like the "gentleman" in the video figure brute force and yelling is the best way to calm a situation.

You?

[*bfine32*]

(05-11-2018, 10:27 PM)GMDino Wrote: Personally?  I'd use my training in de-escalation to try and calm down everyone (especially those wound up black people) and see if the situation really needed an officer called before choking a guy and throwing him to the ground for "resisting".

Of course that would have to mean a) such training was offered/required b) such training was learned.

This incident seems to be an upset customer and a manager...the kind of thing that usually can be handled by one side remaining calm and the other leaving.

But, again, I hold police to a higher standard given their ability to take away your property, freedom and life.  Maybe the people training them don't feel that way.  Maybe the ones like the "gentleman" in the video figure brute force and yelling is the best way to calm a situation.

You?

You have no idea if any/all those things were/ were not done; nor do you have any idea if such training was/was not provided. . You've simply seen a snippet of a video shared by Shaun King and formed your opinion.

If you used your vast de-escalation skills (whatever those entail) and the subject in question still did not comply with your commands what would you then do?

As to what I would have done: Whatever it takes to ensure the person in question obeys my lawful commands. 

[GMDino]

(05-11-2018, 10:33 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You have no idea if any/all those things were/ were not done; nor do you have any idea if such training was/was not provided. . You've simply seen a snippet of a video shared by Shaun King and formed your opinion.

If you say so.

You also have no idea what was done. But you assume that the officer physically manhandling the other guy must have been okie dokie.

(05-11-2018, 10:33 PM)bfine32 Wrote: If you used your vast de-escalation skills (whatever those entail) and the subject in question still did not comply with your commands what would you then do?

The fact that you don't even understand what those skills are is kind of sad. However to answer you (next) question: At some point you need to enforce the law. That might include physical restraint. I don't think that ever requires an officer of the law choking a citizen up against a wall while lifting him off the ground. Maybe that's just me.

(05-11-2018, 10:33 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As to what I would have done: Whatever it takes to ensure the person in question obeys my lawful commands. 

I guess I just don't have a big enough ego to be on a power trip and demand people obey me without trying to calm the situation and not have to choke a citizen. But then I always thought talking was better than fighting and a better way to reach resolution.

So can I go to bed now? Or do you want some tips on de-escalation?

[GMDino]

Reminds of this guy who worked with us when I worked in radio.

He was probably a few years older than me, but he looked a lot older.  Balding, the hair that was left was graying, always nervous and agitated and awful B.O.

Anyway, one night he up and quit.  Middle of his shift.  10pm at night.  

I had been working all day and got the call to come in because he just put a CD on, called the owner and walked out.

I ended up filling the shift until 2am and then working the next day.

Two days later he stormed into the office and demanded to see the owner.  He was HOT.  Looking back it never occurred to me that he might have a weapon, but I did think he was going to be violent.

I happened to be the first person he saw and he went OFF on me and continued his demand to get into the boss's office.  I was between him and the boss who was in his office with the door closed (coincidently) So rather than yell back or grab him and throw him out (he was a skinny guy and I was all of 24 years old and in the best shape I'd ever be in...lol) I calmly talked to him.  After 5-10 minutes he started to calm down.  He explained what was going on and he understood that going in there with a head of steam was not going to solve ANYONE'S problems.

After he was calmed I talked to the boss and let him in and they had a meeting and he was on his way.  He even thanked me for being nice to him.  Boss thanked me too.  

Just a matter of de-escalating rather than "fighting back" which would have gotten us nowhere in a hurry.

Full disclosure:  Looking back at how much I learned to dislike my boss I almost wish I wouldn't have been there to calm the guy down.  Almost.     But in the end taking was better than fighting.

Just my take on why police need that kind of training.  The kind the push in other countries much more than here.

[*bfine32*]

(05-11-2018, 10:41 PM)GMDino Wrote: So can I go to bed now?  Or do you want some tips on de-escalation?

I have more training and experience on how to de-escalate a situation then you could possibly imagine.  Have you ever tried to relocate the first Bosniac family back into Zvornik surrounded by a mob of angry Serbs within site of the Drina drop? 

So yeah, you can go to bed now. Tips are not required. 

[GMDino]

(05-11-2018, 10:54 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I have more training and experience on how to de-escalate a situation then you could possibly imagine.  Have you ever tried to relocate the first Bosniac family back into Zvornik surrounded by a mob of angry Serbs within site of the Drina drop? 

So yeah, you can go to bed now. Tips are not required. 

No I do not have experience that you have.

You do not have experience I have.

And the waffle house is not a war zone.

G'night!

[*michaelsean*]

(05-11-2018, 10:54 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I have more training and experience on how to de-escalate a situation then you could possibly imagine.  Have you ever tried to relocate the first Bosniac family back into Zvornik surrounded by a mob of angry Serbs within site of the Drina drop? 

So yeah, you can go to bed now. Tips are not required. 

Man Zvornik is the worst. Well maybe not worse than Melmac, but close.

[GMDino]

(05-11-2018, 10:56 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Man Zvornik is the worst. Well maybe not worse than Melmac, but close.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(05-11-2018, 10:54 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I have more training and experience on how to de-escalate a situation then you could possibly imagine.  Have you ever tried to relocate the first Bosniac family back into Zvornik surrounded by a mob of angry Serbs within site of the Drina drop? 

So yeah, you can go to bed now. Tips are not required. 

Also, here's the thing, de-escalation does not always work.  As it is a skill like any other even trained officers (at this point that would be all of them) are going to display varying levels of ability with that skill.  It does amuse me when people who have never been I anything resembling this type of situation know exactly what to do and how to do it.  Wouldn't it be great if they all joined up and put these amazing, unused, skills to use?

(05-11-2018, 10:56 PM)GMDino Wrote: No I do not have experience that you have.

Clearly

Quote:You do not have experience I have.

What experience do you have in this type of situation?  Please enlighten us.

[GMDino]

(05-14-2018, 03:52 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Also, here's the thing, de-escalation does not always work.  As it is a skill like any other even trained officers (at this point that would be all of them) are going to display varying levels of ability with that skill.  It does amuse me when people who have never been I anything resembling this type of situation know exactly what to do and how to do it.  Wouldn't it be great if they all joined up and put these amazing, unused, skills to use?

Nothing works "all the time."

I'm explained my feeling on de-escalation and its usefulness.

Other countries train better for it than the US.

And, again, the waffle house isn't a war zone...which are the skills bfine was talking about.

[fredtoast]

(05-11-2018, 10:54 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I have more training and experience on how to de-escalate a situation then you could possibly imagine.  Have you ever tried to relocate the first Bosniac family back into Zvornik surrounded by a mob of angry Serbs within site of the Drina drop? 

So yeah, you can go to bed now. Tips are not required. 

So you and all the other UN troops just used choke holds on the Serbs?

[fredtoast]

(05-11-2018, 05:34 PM)bfine32 Wrote:  How does she no the protocol for a lone officer to put a person under control that is refusing to comply?

Probably because she heard during the Freddie Grey proceedings that some choke holds are illegal.

Are you saying they are proper protocol?