Bad boys, bad boys...watcha gonna do?

[fredtoast]

(03-27-2018, 07:48 AM)GMDino Wrote:

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/03/22/596051907/video-shows-sacramento-police-shoot-unarmed-black-man-in-grandparents-backyard


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/why-did-sacramento-officers-who-shot-stephon-clark-mute-their-n860196

Dylan Roof—a white male—is a domestic terrorist that shot and killed people in a church and he was captured calmly and got Burger King.

Stephon Clark—a black male—had a cell phone in his OWN backyard and was shot TWENTY times

— roxαnn (@roxannseason) March 22, 2018

I think it is very important to look at all the facts whenever we hear the "It looked like a gun" claim.

It is totally different if the police are just dealing with a routine traffic stop or if they are chasing a violent suspect.  In the cases where there does not appear to be any serious criminal activity it is harder to justify an officer shooting someone just for holding a phone.  But in cases like this where the suspect is involved in criminal behavior and fleeing the police it is more believable.

[GMDino]

(04-02-2018, 10:18 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I think it is very important to look at all the facts whenever we hear the "It looked like a gun" claim.

It is totally different if the police are just dealing with a routine traffic stop or if they are chasing a violent suspect.  In the cases where there does not appear to be any serious criminal activity it is harder to justify an officer shooting someone just for holding a phone.  But in cases like this where the suspect is involved in criminal behavior and fleeing the police it is more believable.

The report was someone breaking car windows and I heard on NPR that an officer had not been shot in that town in something like a decade.  This was a *bit* of an overreaction to a "possible" gun.

[fredtoast]

(04-02-2018, 10:23 AM)GMDino Wrote: The report was someone breaking car windows and I heard on NPR that an officer had not been shot in that town in something like a decade.  This was a *bit* of an overreaction to a "possible" gun.

What is the proper reaction to a "possible" gun?  Wait until you are shot?

Like I said before.  It is a lot different when dealing with a routine traffic stop or just some random guy walking down the road.  This guy was involved in criminal activity and trying to evade the police.  Police are much mor likely to get shot in these cisrcumstances.

[GMDino]

(04-02-2018, 10:40 AM)fredtoast Wrote: What is the proper reaction to a "possible" gun?  Wait until you are shot?

Like I said before.  It is a lot different when dealing with a routine traffic stop or just some random guy walking down the road.  This guy was involved in criminal activity and trying to evade the police.  Police are much mor likely to get shot in these cisrcumstances.

This guy was in the backyard of the house he lived in.

The report of a possible gun came from the helicopter.

Police might be more likely to overreact in those circumstances.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(04-02-2018, 10:56 AM)GMDino Wrote: This guy was in the backyard of the house he lived in.

The guy ran into a backyard, they didn't start the encounter there.  Also, how are the officers to know that's the backyard of his home?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/20/us/minneapolis-police-shooting-justine-damond.html


I was stunned to see that our good friend, and keen eyed law enforcement watchdog, GMDino had neglected to post this latest development in the Minnesota shooting. A more suspicious person might perceive an agenda from such a person that would cause this omission. I can only hope none of us are so cynical.

[GMDino]

(04-02-2018, 11:11 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/20/us/minneapolis-police-shooting-justine-damond.html


I was stunned to see that our good friend, and keen eyed law enforcement watchdog, GMDino had neglected to post this latest development in the Minnesota shooting.  A more suspicious person might perceive an agenda from such a person that would cause this omission. I can only hope none of us are so cynical.

Thanks for the update.

Quote:The Minneapolis police officer who fatally shot an unarmed Australian woman last summer, an incident that led to protests and the ouster of the city’s police chief, was jailed Tuesday on charges of third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter.

The shooting of the woman, Justine Damond, by Officer Mohamed Noor on July 15 renewed questions about police conduct and training in a region that has seen a series of police shootings in recent years.
“Officer Noor did not act reasonably,” Mike Freeman, the Hennepin County attorney, said at a news conference Tuesday afternoon, adding that the officer “abused his authority to use deadly force.”


....


Lt. Bob Kroll, who leads the union that represents Minneapolis police officers, declined to comment on the specifics of the prosecution, but released a statement acknowledging “the tragic shooting of Justine Damond.”

Ms. Damond, 40, a yoga and meditation instructor who was engaged to be married, had called 911 twice that July night to report what she feared was a sexual assault happening outside her home in an affluent part of Minneapolis. Officer Noor and his partner, Officer Matthew Harrity, arrived minutes later.

The two officers were driving through an alley near Ms. Damond’s home with their emergency lights off, prosecutors said, when Officer Harrity reported being startled by a noise and a figure who appeared outside the car. Moments later, Officer Noor, the passenger in the police car, fired a shot through the cruiser’s open driver’s-side window, fatally striking Ms. Damond.
Prosecutors said that Officer Harrity, who unholstered his gun but did not fire it, told a supervisor later that “we both got spooked.” Neither officer’s body camera was turned on when the shot was fired, and there is no known video of the shooting.



...


For months, the authorities released little information about what led to the gunfire, and Officer Noor declined to speak to investigators from the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension, who were asked by the city to review the shooting. The state agency finished its investigation in mid-September and handed over its findings to Mr. Freeman’s office.



Ms. Damond’s death happened a month after a police officer was acquitted of manslaughter in the fatal shooting of a motorist in nearby Falcon Heights. It renewed debate in the Minneapolis region about how officers use force and treat residents. Protesters marched, demanded policy changes and at one point shouted over the mayor at the time, Betsy Hodges, during a news conference.



For years, activists in Minnesota have protested police shootings, including many high-profile cases in which black men were killed. Some of the same activists demonstrated after the shooting of Ms. Damond, who was white, and suggested that her death might galvanize some white people who had previously been silent about police misconduct.


Officer Noor, a member of the area’s large Somali immigrant community, began patrolling the district in southwest Minneapolis 14 months before the shooting. He was the first Somali officer to be stationed in that area, and was seen as a cultural bridge to a community that has at times had tensions with the police.

...

Prosecutors often face difficulty securing convictions against police officers involved in shootings. In the Falcon Heights case, Officer Jeronimo Yanez was acquitted in June by jurors in a neighboring county for the fatal 2016 shooting of Philando Castile. Officers in Oklahoma, Wisconsin and Missouri were acquitted last year in trials over fatal shootings.

Minneapolis police records released after the shooting showed that Officer Noor had been the subject of three citizen complaints during his short career. Details about the incidents were not released. A day before the shooting of Ms. Damond, a lawsuit accusing Officer Noor and two colleagues of misconduct was filed in federal court.

Do you think they overcharged?

[fredtoast]

(04-02-2018, 11:11 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote:  A more suspicious person might perceive an agenda from such a person that would cause this omission. I can only hope none of us are so cynical.

I don't get it.  What agenda would make dino ommit this story?  Seems like he is all about exposing police abuse of authority.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(04-02-2018, 11:22 AM)GMDino Wrote: Thanks for the update.






Do you think they overcharged?

I don't know the elements of third degree murder in MN.  There's technically no such charge in CA.

(04-02-2018, 11:25 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't get it.  What agenda would make dino ommit this story?  Seems like he is all about exposing police abuse of authority.

I'm not nearly cynical enough to know.

[fredtoast]

(04-02-2018, 11:31 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I'm not nearly cynical enough to know.

Then why did you claim some person who was more cynical might see an agenda?

What were you talking about?

You are not the type of person to just make a comment without having any clue what you are talking about are you?

[*michaelsean*]

(03-27-2018, 07:48 AM)GMDino Wrote:

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/03/22/596051907/video-shows-sacramento-police-shoot-unarmed-black-man-in-grandparents-backyard


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/why-did-sacramento-officers-who-shot-stephon-clark-mute-their-n860196

Dylan Roof—a white male—is a domestic terrorist that shot and killed people in a church and he was captured calmly and got Burger King.

Stephon Clark—a black male—had a cell phone in his OWN backyard and was shot TWENTY times

— roxαnn (@roxannseason) March 22, 2018

Dylan Roof was pulled over by police.  He pulled over when they turned on their lights.  They don't shoot you for what you did, but for what they think you might do.  And how is what happens in departments 3000 miles from each other a comparable thing?  How many armed black people are taken into custody without being shot? Why don't we ever see those in the comparisons?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(04-02-2018, 11:44 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Dylan Roof was pulled over by police.  He pulled over when they turned on their lights.  They don't shoot you for what you did, but for what they think you might do.  And how is what happens in departments 3000 miles from each other a comparable thing?  How many armed black people are taken into custody without being shot?  Why don't we ever see those in the comparisons?

Shh, logic only confuses them.  Then they'll talk about how they bought him Burger King, like they somehow sympathized with him.  It would have nothing to do with using a common interrogation tactic to build trust and establish a rapport.

[GMDino]

(04-02-2018, 11:44 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Dylan Roof was pulled over by police.  He pulled over when they turned on their lights.  They don't shoot you for what you did, but for what they think you might do.  

Seems legit.  

(04-02-2018, 11:44 AM)michaelsean Wrote: And how is what happens in departments 3000 miles from each other a comparable thing?  How many armed black people are taken into custody without being shot?  Why don't we ever see those in the comparisons?

If you have those stats I'd love to see them!

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(04-02-2018, 11:56 AM)GMDino Wrote: Seems legit.  


If you have those stats I'd love to see them!

Law enforcement encounters armed suspects as a matter of routine.  Law enforcement involved shootings are rare.  Draw appropriate conclusion.

[GMDino]

This says fatal shootings (overall) by officers is going down!  Which is a GOOD thing!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/national/police-shootings-2018/?utm_term=.1e4fba3d18a7


Haven't seen a breakdown by race like Michael wanted...but then race shouldn't matter if they are shot and killed while unarmed.

[GMDino]

More statistics that show fatal shootings are down!

But this break it up by race:

https://thesocietypages.org/toolbox/police-killing-of-blacks/

Quote:Data collected by the Washington Post on the use of lethal force by police officers in 2015, 2016, and 2017 indicate that, relative to the portion of the population, Blacks are over-represented among all those killed by police under all circumstances. As is evident in Figure 1 below, (looking at the bottom blue bar) according to the US Census estimates of 2015 (the most recent available), Blacks made up 13% of the population. However, in 2015 they accounted for 26% of those that were killed by police, in 2016, 24%, and in 2017, 22% of all those killed by police. In other words, Blacks were the victims of the lethal use of force by police at nearly twice their rate in the general population. Whites make up the plurality of victims of police use of lethal force (45% in 2017), BUT they also make the majority of the population (62% in 2015). (Stay tuned for a discussion of comparisons to crime rates rather than general population proportion)

Again, just trying to answer Michael's query. 

[*michaelsean*]

(04-02-2018, 11:56 AM)GMDino Wrote: Seems legit.  


If you have those stats I'd love to see them!

Well it seems in 2015 there were 44,000 weapons arrests made involving black people.  If I understand that means it was the primary charge so that wouldn't include people arrested for homicide etc that were armed.  Either way, I'm sure we could come up with plenty of black people who didn't get shot to compare with black people who did get shot, but where's the fun in that?

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2015/crime-in-the-u.s.-2015/tables/table-43

[GMDino]

(04-02-2018, 12:11 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Well it seems in 2015 there were 44,000 weapons arrests made involving black people.  If I understand that means it was the primary charge so that wouldn't include people arrested for homicide etc that were armed.  Either way, I'm sure we could come up with plenty of black people who didn't get shot to compare with black people who did get shot, but where's the fun in that?

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2015/crime-in-the-u.s.-2015/tables/table-43

There is no fun in ANYONE getting shot and killed.  There is a good cause to keep people aware of those situations and see that people who have immense power are held accountable if they cross a line.

Maybe the problem is some think these posts are to make "fun" of the police when they are merely to share for the sake of following.  Officers have an IMMENSELY difficult and dangerous job...one that I would not/could not do.  But they also have immense power to take away your freedom or your life.  That needs to be watched along with trying to protect the offices too.

It is a difficult balance but one worthy of discussion at all times.

[*michaelsean*]

(04-02-2018, 12:14 PM)GMDino Wrote: There is no fun in ANYONE getting shot and killed.  There is a good cause to keep people aware of those situations and see that people who have immense power are held accountable if they cross a line.

Maybe the problem is some think these posts are to make "fun" of the police when they are merely to share for the sake of following.  Officers have an IMMENSELY difficult and dangerous job...one that I would not/could not do.  But they also have immense power to take away your freedom or your life.  That needs to be watched along with trying to protect the offices too.

It is a difficult balance but one worthy of discussion at all times.

Well then why would anyone make such a ridiculous comparison with Dylan Roof?  You could just as easily make a meme and pick an unarmed white guy who was killed compared to an armed black man who was not.

[fredtoast]

(04-02-2018, 12:11 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Well it seems in 2015 there were 44,000 weapons arrests made involving black people.  If I understand that means it was the primary charge so that wouldn't include people arrested for homicide etc that were armed.  Either way, I'm sure we could come up with plenty of black people who didn't get shot to compare with black people who did get shot, but where's the fun in that?

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2015/crime-in-the-u.s.-2015/tables/table-43

Just curious, but what is an acceptable ratio for you.  How many proper arrests do police have to make before it is okay to kill an unarmed person for no reason?

Jerry Sandusky had thousands of youth in his camps that he never molested.  Wonder why no one talks about them? (HINT I don't think it has anything to do with what is "fun")