Baghdadi's death: More details emerge from US raid

[SunsetBengal]

(10-28-2019, 06:57 PM)GMDino Wrote: Because your boy can't let the sun shine on anyone but himself.

Blame Trump for making the story about him.

Nah, he gave all the credit to the dead guy, letting the world know that he died "Whimpering and crying, like a dog..".  I'll take that stamp of approval that the bad guy is dead any day.

[BrownAssClown]

I can see the Trump re-election campaign selling T-shirts at his rallies that say, "Trump's The Mac Daddy That Bagged the Bag Daddy!"

[*michaelsean*]

(10-28-2019, 09:32 PM)BrownAssClown Wrote: I can see the Trump re-election campaign selling T-shirts at his rallies that say, "Trump's The Mac Daddy That Bagged the Bag Daddy!"

Or "Bin Laden is  dead and GM is alive."  Crap that one's been taken.

[*michaelsean*]

(10-28-2019, 05:08 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Why must we always try to find the gray cloud behind the silver lining? The raid was a good thing and very successful. The rest is white noise.

We had people who tried to find fault with Obama and the Bin Laden killing.  People who are being critical are just their mirror image. 

[GMDino]

(10-29-2019, 09:46 AM)michaelsean Wrote: We had people who tried to find fault with Obama and the Bin Laden killing.  People who are being critical are just the mirror of them.  

People found fault with Obama for "taking credit" for Bin Laden.  People are finding fault with Trump for lying about even being in the room (putting out a photoshopped photo of him "watching"), and literally making a 47 minute press conference about himself.

The only "mirror" is what is said about the POTUS...there is no equivalency based on what each President said though.

This is VOX but if the facts in it are wrong someone show me.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/10/27/20911036/trump-isis-leader-baghdadi-obama-bin-laden-announcement

I'll also add that one of the "people" who tried to find fault with Obama was Trump.

People voted for an egomaniac and then complain when people point out how egocentric and small of a "man" he really is.  That's funny.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(10-29-2019, 09:56 AM)GMDino Wrote: People found fault with Obama for "taking credit" for Bin Laden.  People are finding fault with Trump for lying about even being in the room (putting out a photoshopped photo of him "watching"), and literally making a 47 minute press conference about himself.

The only "mirror" is what is said about the POTUS...there is no equivalency based on what each President said though.

I don't really remember people here complaining about Obama after the Bin Laden raid.  It may have happened, but it certainly wasn't memorable.  Even if so, why would you emulate behavior you criticize in others?

Quote:This is VOX but if the facts in it are wrong someone show me.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/10/27/20911036/trump-isis-leader-baghdadi-obama-bin-laden-announcement

You sure love you some Vox.  It explains a lot.

Quote:I'll also add that one of the "people" who tried to find fault with Obama was Trump.

People voted for an egomaniac and then complain when people point out how egocentric and small of a "man" he really is.  That's funny.

You're conflating complaining with pointing out your hypocrisy.  Much like the booing at the baseball game thread you are engaging in behavior that you have called out in others in the past.  The crazy/sad thing is you really don't see it, or you do which would explain your attempts to deflect by attacking and labeling those correctly calling you out.

[Dill]

(10-28-2019, 05:08 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Why must we always try to find the gray cloud behind the silver lining? The raid was a good thing and very successful. The rest is white noise.

Why do we have to evaluate policy consequences?  Why is everyone so determined to figure out where our ME policy is going, or whether we have one?

Praise Trump, Russia, and that dog.  The rest is white noise.

[GMDino]

https://www.foxnews.com/transcript/bin-laden-bragging-rights-should-president-obama-claim-credit

Quote:(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: One year ago, from a base here in Afghanistan, our troops launched the operation that killed Usama bin Laden. The goal that I set to defeat Al Qaeda and deny it a chance to rebuild is now within our reach.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GIGOT: Welcome to the "Journal Editorial Report." I'm Paul Gigot.

That was President Obama Tuesday marking the one year anniversary of the death of Usama bin Laden in a surprise trip to Afghanistan. It is just one of the ways the president and his re-election campaign have commemorated the killing. Also, releasing an ad suggesting rival Mitt Romney might not have done the same.

In a Wall Street Journal op-ed this week, former attorney general, Michael Mukasey, said it is hard to imagine Lincoln or Eisenhower taking such a victory lap.

Judge Mukasey joins me now.

Good to have you back on the program, Judge.

JUDGE MICHAEL MUKASEY, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Good to be here.

GIGOT: So presidents advertise their accomplishments, especially when they run for election. That is what they do. Why is what President Obama has done different from that tradition?

MUKASEY: Because they say real leadership consists of taking less credit than you deserve and more blame than you deserve. And President Obama, after his election, said that the president he wanted to be most like Lincoln. If you take a look at Lincoln's record, the night after the surrender of Robert E. Lee, he delivered what turned out to be his last speech in which he disclaimed any responsibility for the victory, and, instead, looked ahead to reconstruction, and advocated black suffrage, something that got him killed because John Wilkes Boothe being in the audience outside the White House. Earlier, in his administration -- he took responsibility for the mistakes General McClellan, of defense secretary -- his secretary of defense --

GIGOT: Right.

MUKASEY: -- constantly, took responsibility for things that failed, gave credit to others for things that succeeded.

GIGOT: But, let's go back to 2004. President Obama, George W. Bush running for re-election in the wake of 9/11, they ran an ad, his campaign, called "Tested," which, really, advertised what they said was his leadership after the attack on the World Trade Center. And they included some footage of the burning towers.
How is this different, what Obama is doing, saying, we got bin Laden finally, how is it different from President Bush taking credit for his post-attack leadership?

MUKASEY: I don't know that he was taking credit as describing something that he had been exposed to that was not of his making and had survived. Here, in the clip you saw, and in the clip you might have shown from his announcement of the killing of bin Laden, it was "I," "me," "I", "My." The perpendicular pronoun was pretty much in evidence.

GIGOT: What about his suggestion, his campaign's suggestion -- I guess he made it personally -- that Romney might not have done the same?

MUKASEY: It is hard to find a word other than outrageous to describe that. And I think the memo that went from Leon Panetta to Admiral McRaven --

GIGOT: This is while --
(CROSSTALK)
GIGOT: -- Leon Panetta was CIA director --

MUKASEY: Right.

GIGOT: -- before the attack, before the raid.

MUKASEY: Right. Describing McRaven's authority as limited to the risk profile that he had presented to the president, is revealing of the attitude that prevailed at time.

GIGOT: How should a commander-in-chief behave? Are you saying Lincoln is the model? Is that what you should do?

MUKASEY: Lincoln is the model. Kennedy is the model. Eisenhower is the model. A lot of people are the model. George W. Bush is the model.

GIGOT: Well -- but you do not think George Bush ever took credit. What about "mission accomplished" banner?

MUKASEY: That is not a banner that he put up. That was put up by other people. And if you look at the remarks he made at the time, they were all by way of giving credit to the troops.

GIGOT: The mistake the president is making is essentially saying, look, this was -- he's taking an exorbitant -- in your view, an exorbitant amount of credit where as, if it had gone wrong, the implication of the memos and things is the blame would have been the people who were executing the policy.

MUKASEY: Correct.

https://www.mediamatters.org/fox-news/fox-news-host-bush-administration-got-bin-laden-not-obama

Quote:JUAN WILLIAMS (CO-HOST): I don't think most people, I don't think most Americans, even Trump supporters think Donald Trump really knows a lot about how to combat terrorism.


ERIC BOLLING (CO-HOST): I'll tell you about who doesn't know a whole lot about terrorism, is President Obama. And he's proven that over the last eight years. Remember when he said “I want to lead from behind,” he said --

WILLIAMS: He never said “I want to lead from behind.”

BOLLING: -- “Let's pull out of Afghanistan and Iraq.”

KIMBERLY GUILFOLYE (CO-HOST): The “jay vee team.”

BOLLING: -- “Jay vee team.” He's failed on every level as far as counter-terror all the way through.

WILLIAMS: Oh, I see.

BOLLING: And if you point to Bin Laden, that wasn't Obama's administration that got Bin Laden.

WILLIAMS: It wasn't?

BOLLING: That was the Bush administration that set up the kill shot, and Obama took the kill shot.

WILLIAMS: Up to then, I was listening to you. But goodness gracious, you went overboard.

https://www.salon.com/2011/05/02/fox_reaction/

[Dill]

(10-29-2019, 10:20 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You're conflating complaining with pointing out your hypocrisy.  Much like the booing at the baseball game thread you are engaging in behavior that you have called out in others in the past.  The crazy/sad thing is you really don't see it, or you do which would explain your attempts to deflect by attacking and labeling those correctly calling you out.

    I haven't read ALL of Dino's threads and posts, but offhand I don't recall that he has ever "called out" someone for offering reports on his feelings in place of argument.

If he hasn't, then we can be sure he doesn't see it.   We could search out some of his old posts, starting with the Gabbard thread.

Or here's a better idea--where Dino makes substantive points, respond to those. Let him have his feelings about Trump.

That will keep the thread moving forward on Baghdadi's death and consequences.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(10-29-2019, 12:01 PM)GMDino Wrote: https://www.foxnews.com/transcript/bin-laden-bragging-rights-should-president-obama-claim-credit


https://www.mediamatters.org/fox-news/fox-news-host-bush-administration-got-bin-laden-not-obama



https://www.salon.com/2011/05/02/fox_reaction/

Whatabout?

Again, you are what you claim to hate.  

[GMDino]

(10-29-2019, 12:06 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Whatabout?

Again, you are what you claim to hate.  

I don't hate anyone.  That's maybe just projection?

I certainly don't hate anyone that would show that since Bin Laden was killed folks have been looking for the gray in the silver lining and that there is no equivalency between what Obama said and what Trump said and the reactions to them.

VOX is what it is but the facts are in there.  If they are wrong fact simply post where to find the right ones.

Trump is who is he and thus he "reaps what he sows".

[Dill]

(10-29-2019, 12:01 PM)GMDino Wrote: [/url]BOLLING: And if you point to Bin Laden, that wasn't Obama's administration that got Bin Laden.


WILLIAMS: It wasn't?

BOLLING: That was the Bush administration that set up the kill shot, and Obama took the kill shot.[url=https://www.salon.com/2011/05/02/fox_reaction/]

A helpful comparison that offers a little perspective on current evaluations of presidential action.

The line between policy analysis/evaluation and personality analysis/evaluation has never been hard and fast, but the old rule for serious persons used to be leave off the latter and focus on the former, because the latter so often consisted of unsupported (and unsupportable) general claims like the above quotation from Bolling. 

Trump and his minions seem to have so blurred that line now that it is legitimately hard to separate the two.

One consequence of that blurring is that substantive, evidence-based critique of Trump decisions/actions can be cast as simply another form of name-calling and partisan complaining.

[*michaelsean*]

(10-29-2019, 12:06 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Whatabout?

Again, you are what you claim to hate.  

That started with my post.  I was answering bfine's question about why people have to find the gray in the silver lining.  I told him there wer epeople who did the same when bin Laden was killed, and these were just their mirror images on the left.  

[GMDino]

One of these two was actually involved...the other was told what happened.

[*bfine32*]

(10-29-2019, 09:46 AM)michaelsean Wrote: We had people who tried to find fault with Obama and the Bin Laden killing.  People who are being critical are just their mirror image. 

I said it on election night. We will spend the next 4-8 years being exactly who we've hated the last 8.

I do remember the folks hating on Obama for doing so and I remember the constant memes:

[fredtoast]

(10-28-2019, 10:07 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: It's rather more important to focus on the raid and not these meaningless side issues. 

Great idea.  I am sure your next comment will be about the raid instead of arguing about Trump

(10-28-2019, 10:07 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote:   Do you charge Trump rent for living in your head 24/7?

 

Oh well maybe the next one

(10-28-2019, 10:39 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: It's rather more your constant comments about how he's "sad", a "loser", "why we can't have nice things".  Not a single person here is uncertain about how you perceive Trump.  Give the editorial flourishes a rest, I know I'm far from the only person who would appreciate it.

I'm sure the next one will be about the raid

(10-28-2019, 10:41 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Trump makes every positive story about himself, this isn't news to anyone.  I just find it odd/amusing/annoying how so many who, correctly, call out Trump for his poor behavior respond to said behavior in kind.

People calling out people and then doing the same thing?

When has that ever happened around here.

But I am sure your next comment will b about the raid.

(10-29-2019, 10:20 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I don't really remember people here complaining about Obama after the Bin Laden raid.  It may have happened, but it certainly wasn't memorable.  Even if so, why would you emulate behavior you criticize in others?

You're conflating complaining with pointing out your hypocrisy.  Much like the booing at the baseball game thread you are engaging in behavior that you have called out in others in the past.  The crazy/sad thing is you really don't see it, or you do which would explain your attempts to deflect by attacking and labeling those correctly calling you out.

 

(10-29-2019, 12:06 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Again, you are what you claim to hate.  

Thank god we have the self righteous indignation of SSF.  What would we ever do without him "calling out" people for focusing on meaningless side issues. 

[ballsofsteel]

(10-29-2019, 03:24 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Great idea.  I am sure your next comment will be about the raid instead of arguing about Trump



 

Oh well maybe the next one



I'm sure the next one will be about the raid



People calling out people and then doing the same thing?

When has that ever happened around here.

But I am sure your next comment will b about the raid.



 



Thank god we have the self righteous indignation of SSF.  What would we ever do without him "calling out" people for focusing on meaningless side issues. 

Well he is one of the Righteous Brothers don't you know.

[GMDino]

Imma leave this here because it plays into the delusional idea that DJT isn't making everything about himself at all times.

Lou Dobbs says Trump never talks about himself. Instead, "President Trump is truly the president of 'we'" pic.twitter.com/EtEhNLs65v

— Jason Campbell (@JasonSCampbell) October 28, 2019

 

[BmorePat87]

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/468200-trump-tweets-photoshopped-image-of-dog-from-al-baghdadi-raid?fbclid=IwAR0I27hUmW7nqQCp8rOwKDwOruZyiQyA08JW8t0lDjzZo2UH5Pz3NciEqtA

This dude tweeted a photoshopped image of himself giving a medal to the injured dog and captioned it "AMERICAN HERO".

You know what? I'm here for that. He needs to focus more on tweets like that.

[GMDino]

(10-30-2019, 10:05 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/468200-trump-tweets-photoshopped-image-of-dog-from-al-baghdadi-raid?fbclid=IwAR0I27hUmW7nqQCp8rOwKDwOruZyiQyA08JW8t0lDjzZo2UH5Pz3NciEqtA

This dude tweeted a photoshopped image of himself giving a medal to the injured dog and captioned it "AMERICAN HERO".

You know what? I'm here for that. He needs to focus more on tweets like that.

It was a better photoshop than the one he posted of him watching the raid when he was really golfing at the time.