War in America

[Dill]

(08-17-2017, 05:57 PM)Millhouse Wrote: In overall reality we arent any more divided than any other time. The most divided ever was the Civil War when the traitorous Rebel scum* seceded, which ironically is at the base of whats happening.  

* which movie have heard that in before?

I don't think we are more divided than we were in 1861-65, when a group of states tried to secede and 600,000 Americans on both sides died.

The current conflict is a continuation of that clash certainly, as the KKK and Neo-Nazis strive to keep racial division alive, fighting over symbols of white supremacy. But it is not as bad.

To answer Matt's question--I doubt very much there will be a race war, though that has long been an alt-right motif. It drives the plot in the Turner Diaries, for example. Every few years or so some Right Wing terrorist acts thinking he will trigger the longed-for war. 

Practically, though, as long as there is a large middle class of blacks and whites who don't want their property and communities destroyed, there will be no race war. Imagine how that would disrupt the football season!  I doubt very much anyone in this forum wants to see that happen.

[Dill]

(08-17-2017, 07:06 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Fail.  You used it in context, to reply to Auturo's question about the US seeming divided.  You referenced being most divided since the Civil War.  Then added, which is at the base of this.  The thing you mention as a reference point cannot be the base of what is dividing us now, as it is in the past tense.  To be honest, what is dividing us right now, is extremism, from both sides.

Get with the program, Millhouse.. 

What if he had said "basis" as in source or cause, or reason or foundation?

The events in Charlottesville certainly flow from the long standing conflicts over race, symbolized for both sides by the statue of Lee.

[SunsetBengal]

(08-17-2017, 08:00 PM)Dill Wrote: What if he had said "basis" as in source or cause, or reason or foundation?

The events in Charlottesville certainly flow from the long standing conflicts over race, symbolized for both sides by the statue of Lee.

Yes, using "basis" would have made a ton of difference in how I read it.  For the record, I'm of the camp who thinks that if everyone would have paid the "bad guys" no attention, at their "rally", (as in no counter protest or media coverage) they would have simply dried up, and blown away.

[*Nately120*]

(08-17-2017, 06:29 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I'm pretty sure Trump thinks EVERYONE except his family are losers and morons, sooooooooooooooooooooo suck it, Lefty. 

I'm a nihilist, so I respect Trumps ability to ruin everything for everyone.  He's giving this country all the trouble and misery it begged for. 

So far life is bitterly fair. 

[Matt_Crimson]

(08-18-2017, 06:20 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I'm a nihilist, so I respect Trumps ability to ruin everything for everyone.  He's giving this country all the trouble and misery it begged for. 

So far life is bitterly fair. 

If you can't beat em'.... beat everyone.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-18-2017, 06:20 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I'm a nihilist, so I respect Trumps ability to ruin everything for everyone.  He's giving this country all the trouble and misery it begged for. 

So far life is bitterly fair. 

If you want to get philosophical about it, think about a addict going through recovery. Things get really bad for them but if they can make it through, they come out better and stronger. 

I'm not saying Trump is intentionally putting the country through crap in order to actually make America great - that'd be giving him FAR too much credit - but maybe he's exactly what we need to fix our political system.

Yeah, I know, I know, that's why I said get philosophical about it.

[*Nately120*]

(08-19-2017, 10:36 AM)PhilHos Wrote: If you want to get philosophical about it, think about a addict going through recovery. Things get really bad for them but if they can make it through, they come out better and stronger. 

I'm not saying Trump is intentionally putting the country through crap in order to actually make America great - that'd be giving him FAR too much credit - but maybe he's exactly what we need to fix our political system.

Yeah, I know, I know, that's why I said get philosophical about it.

Its possible. I notice white NFL players are showing more support for the anthem sitters after our president absolved white supremacist Nazis, for example. 

[samhain]

(08-19-2017, 01:21 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Its possible. I notice white NFL players are showing more support for the anthem sitters after our president absolved white supremacist Nazis, for example. 

I noticed that too.  I think it's mostly a workplace issue for Kaepernick's blackballing.  They've watched that scenario play out and now realize what the owners can due to them if they decide to collude or defy them.

[BmorePat87]

(08-17-2017, 07:29 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Why would that have any more impact on your head, than a so called "peaceful group" like BLM, marching in Minneapolis?  They were vigilant, chanting hate rhetoric like "What do we want?  Dead cops!", and "Pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon!".  

I don't know exactly why, but I have a good idea..  Because the media painted a picture for you, and you jumped on board.  

I mean, what was all the media frenzy about Ferguson, and Michael Brown?  Witnesses (black folk) even stated that he went for the officer's gun.  And we had weeks of rioting all over the TV for weeks.  Why?  Because the media wanted to push people's opinion.  You, as an educator, should be the first one to realize that it's all a bunch of crap, spun up simply to influence your judgement.  What was the problem with Michael Brown?  He wasn't raised right.  Get back to family values, and most of our crime/hate problems will vanish.

I'm not sure how this went from the two acts of violence in Virginia to Michael Brown. I was simply saying that this country has grown desensitized to mass shootings. 

I can't really comment on the bulk of what you're saying, mostly because I am not sure what point you're trying to make, but I will say that getting back to family values won't solve most of our crime/hate problems. 

[SunsetBengal]

(08-19-2017, 03:49 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I'm not sure how this went from the two acts of violence in Virginia to Michael Brown. I was simply saying that this country has grown desensitized to mass shootings. 

I can't really comment on the bulk of what you're saying, mostly because I am not sure what point you're trying to make, but I will say that getting back to family values won't solve most of our crime/hate problems. 

I apologize for jumping tangential, without explaining what took me there.  Part of why I referenced the Ferguson and Minneapolis stuff, is in my mind, I feel it is the same band of traveling, paid activists doing all the demonstrating.  I really do not believe that these are homogenous groups of local citizens that suddenly rise up to react to a moment.  

[Dill]

(08-19-2017, 04:00 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I apologize for jumping tangential, without explaining what took me there.  Part of why I referenced the Ferguson and Minneapolis stuff, is in my mind, I feel it is the same band of traveling, paid activists doing all the demonstrating.  I really do not believe that these are homogenous groups of local citizens that suddenly rise up to react to a moment.  

People of Ferguson had no reason to be upset with their police department? 

Speaking of traveling bands, which one of these guys looks most local?

[*Nately120*]

(08-19-2017, 03:49 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I'm not sure how this went from the two acts of violence in Virginia to Michael Brown. I was simply saying that this country has grown desensitized to mass shootings. 

I can't really comment on the bulk of what you're saying, mostly because I am not sure what point you're trying to make, but I will say that getting back to family values won't solve most of our crime/hate problems. 

An interesting point one of my acquaintances made was that he's really unnerved by just how NOT surprised he is every time he reads  about another event/shooting/tragedy/etc that would once have seemed insane.

[BmorePat87]

(08-19-2017, 04:00 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I apologize for jumping tangential, without explaining what took me there.  Part of why I referenced the Ferguson and Minneapolis stuff, is in my mind, I feel it is the same band of traveling, paid activists doing all the demonstrating.  I really do not believe that these are homogenous groups of local citizens that suddenly rise up to react to a moment.  

I see where you were going with it now, thanks for explaining. My comments were specifically about the nature of the violence (a white dude going on a mass shooting versus a Nazi running someone down with a car).

With regards to the protestors, Matt can speak more to this, but there legitimately were a ton of locals who came out to speak against this. The Nazi groups were the bigger outsiders. I mean, the murderer drove down from Ohio and the woman he killed was from Charlottesville. 

[Belsnickel]

(08-19-2017, 11:29 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: With regards to the protestors, Matt can speak more to this, but there legitimately were a ton of locals who came out to speak against this. The Nazi groups were the bigger outsiders. I mean, the murderer drove down from Ohio and the woman he killed was from Charlottesville. 

Yeah, there were a ton of locals, and there were a lot of folks that came from the surrounding area. There were hundreds of Virginia clergy, there were groups from the Shenandoah Valley, from Richmond, from NoVA, all coming to C'ville to stand against the racist carpetbaggers. Charlottesville is a very liberal city. It surrounded by a county that is less so, and the city isn't some liberal utopia, but it is very liberal, and the people came out against the racist groups that descended on their city. The group that the terrorist drove his car into was primarily a group of Virginia DSA members.

Now, I won't say none of the locals got violent, because I know of at least one that turned a spray paint can (thrown at him by a white supremacist) into a flame thrower. Albeit he did it to protect an elderly white man who is another local and was there to counter-protest and was frightened because racist shitstains were coming at him, but still. Anyway, most of the violence was committed by those from out of town. I feel like that is often the case in these situations, because people don't want to destroy their own community.