Bates Overrated?

[*Synric*]

The likelihood of Tee Higgins getting traded this season was always more slim than people thought. It will be next year when he threatens to not play on the tag when we will likely see a trade.

[jj22]

(03-01-2023, 02:51 PM)J24 Wrote: You do realize the Bengals could trade Higgins if they can't come to a deal right?

Bengals aren't in the business of making teams better..... People can forget about the trade Higgins dream. That's just not how they operate and they shouldn't with this championship window open and theoretically 2 more years with him.

When have we seen them trade someone they couldn't sign? They tend to let them walk and get nothing out of them (or opt for a comp pick). 

[*ochocincos*]

(03-01-2023, 02:49 PM)jj22 Wrote: For those thinking Higgins can control his agent...

From Bates in the above linked article.....

"“I’ve been drafted here. I became a man here,” Bates said after the Bengals’ AFC championship loss to the Chiefs. “I’d love to be here, but that’s out of my control. Whatever happens at the end of the day, I can say I love my brothers like no other. I played my heart out like no other. And that’s all you can really control, at the end of the day."

Sounds like he couldn't just tell his agent he'd accept an offer that only guarantees the first year... Unless you think the Bengals didn't even try to extend him the last 2 years. Ideally athletes should be able to dictate to their agent, but athletes pay agents for a reason, and tend to let them do their job.

I don't agree with your interpretation of the quote.

I believe the quote is missing a key phrase..."I'd love to be here *at a fair price*"
Bates isn't going to take a gigantic pay cut just to stay with the team.
If the difference of a few mill, sure that's fair.
But if the Bengals hardline at something like "no more than $8 mill" and Bates feels he deserves at minimum $12 mill, then it won't get done.
And Bates can't control what the Bengals will offer him.

That's my interpretation of that quote, at least.

[J24]

https://twitter.com/pauldehnerjr/status/1630975533017071638?t=KWJIWRuXymlZOdwPysHU7w&s=19

Maybe Duke and the front office should listen to the players and coaches. They need to sign atleast one of those guys this free agency.

This reeks of 2017 offseason when we lost both Whit and Zeitler.

[jj22]

(03-01-2023, 02:54 PM)Synric Wrote: The likelihood of Tee Higgins getting traded this season was always more slim than people thought. It will be next year when he threatens to not play on the tag when we will likely see a trade.

I still don't think they would trade him. They didn't trade Bates, or any other tagged player.

Hell I don't think they're even savvy enough to trade Mixon or Boyd. Which should be the discussion. They just don't operate like that.

[jj22]

(03-01-2023, 02:56 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I don't agree with your interpretation of the quote.

I believe the quote is missing a key phrase..."I'd love to be here *at a fair price*"
Bates isn't going to take a gigantic pay cut just to stay with the team.
If the difference of a few mill, sure that's fair.
But if the Bengals hardline at something like "no more than $8 mill" and Bates feels he deserves at minimum $12 mill, then it won't get done.
And Bates can't control what the Bengals will offer him.

That's my interpretation of that quote, at least.

Bengals do tend to lowball the first offer which has always rubbed our players the wrong way... 

[*Synric*]

(03-01-2023, 02:56 PM)jj22 Wrote: I still don't think they would trade him. They didn't trade Bates, or any other tagged player.

Hell I don't think they're even savvy enough to trade Mixon or Boyd. Which should be the discussion. They just don't operate like that.

I'm just saying if they were to trade Tee it would be with him threatening to not play under the tag. I do believe if they do not sign Tee this off-season he is definitely gone its just a matter of when.

[jj22]

https://fanspo.com/nfl/agents/david-mulugheta/45657

A look at his contract work.... And we might lose Ossai too if they don't change their philosophy for 1 agent (which I can't imagine they will)

[*Nately120*]

(03-01-2023, 03:00 PM)Synric Wrote: I'm just saying if they were to trade Tee it would be with him threatening to not play under the tag. I do believe if they do not sign Tee this off-season he is definitely gone its just a matter of when.

If the FO is telegraphing that they refuse to entertain the idea of moving on without Tee, that really puts them at a disadvantage when it comes to negotiating a team-friendly long-term deal, doesn't it?

I think we're really banking on the idea that the front office can declare Tee to be essential to the team, and then ask him to take a team-friendly deal and play second banana to Chase for his entire career.  I don't know Tee personally, and maybe all of that sounds A-OK to him, but I feel like we're doing a whole lotta "supposing" on this stuff, either way.

Tee, we can't live without you, but we also won't pay full price either.

[J24]

(03-01-2023, 02:55 PM)jj22 Wrote: Bengals aren't in the business of making teams better..... People can forget about the trade Higgins dream. That's just not how they operate and they shouldn't with this championship window open and theoretically 2 more years with him.

When have we seen them trade someone they couldn't sign? They tend to let them walk and get nothing out of them (or opt for a comp pick). 

Higgins is a top 10 player at his position at a position  they value. They usually go out their way to sign those players to longterm  deals.

This organization has done a ton of stuff in the past three seasons that they haven't done in past 20. Saying that they won't do something just because they haven't doesn't quite add up anymore.

[Essex Johnson]

No has been a solid safety, key also healthy in his career as a whole and in line for a nice contract

[Bengal Dude]

I won't be surprised if Bates goes to Cleveland. Along with the agent connection, there's the history of Cleveland signing our free agents, and finally the family aspect. 

Bates has said it's important for his family to be close and Ft. Wayne isn't that much further away from Cleveland than it is to Cincinnati. 

[Cosmokramer]

I can’t wait until this guy is gone. tired of seeing all of the news, he’s a good player, not great, he wants to be paid like a generational talent. It was decent while it lasted, but it’s becoming cancerous

[Housh]

(03-02-2023, 07:08 PM)Cosmokramer Wrote: I can’t wait until this guy is gone. tired of seeing all of the news, he’s a good player, not great, he wants to be paid like a generational talent. It was decent while it lasted, but it’s becoming cancerous

For the life of me i will never understand fans getting mad at a player for trying to get what they think his worth is



Now hate Bates all you want if he tests the market and the market says he’s worth 10M per and he still signs somewhere else for 10M. At that point I’d say he’s a dick.

[Housh]

(03-02-2023, 02:39 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: I won't be surprised if Bates goes to Cleveland. Along with the agent connection, there's the history of Cleveland signing our free agents, and finally the family aspect. 

Bates has said it's important for his family to be close and Ft. Wayne isn't that much further away from Cleveland than it is to Cincinnati. 

Browns are also probably a fringe playoff team next year if Watson continues to knock the rust off and they draft well. If they land another pass rusher, get a good corner, get Bates and cater that offense more to Deshaun’s skill set.

Us having 3 top WRs means everyone else in the AFCN probably has to have 3-4 GREAT corners to compete. This hasn’t been true so far simply because our line is so trash teams can rush us with just 4. But If we get the line right teams will have to load up at corner

[Cosmokramer]

(03-02-2023, 07:34 PM)Housh Wrote: For the life of me i will never understand fans getting mad at a player for trying to get what they think his worth is



Now hate Bates all you want if he tests the market and the market says he’s worth 10M per and he still signs somewhere else for 10M. At that point I’d say he’s a dick.

I’m not hating on him for him wanting his worth, but he’s openly said he wants to set the market, he’s not worth that, and him constantly being in the news talking about it is getting old. I hope the bengals don’t offer him anything at this point other than a middle of the road salary

[Housh]

(03-02-2023, 07:49 PM)Cosmokramer Wrote: I’m not hating on him for him wanting his worth, but he’s openly said he wants to set the market, he’s not worth that, and him constantly being in the news talking about it is getting old. I hope the bengals don’t offer him anything at this point other than a middle of the road salary

Hey, the market will tell him his worth soon enough


I’m fairly certain someone will give him the deal he wants

[Cosmokramer]

(03-02-2023, 07:58 PM)Housh Wrote: Hey, the market will tell him his worth soon enough


I’m fairly certain someone will give him the deal he wants

You’re probably right, After all, we see what Cleveland gave Watson! I’m glad the shitbirds aren’t caving for Lamar tho. They obviously have no intention of paying him Watson money..

[TheFan]

(02-28-2023, 05:38 PM)J24 Wrote: He is criminally underrated on here maybe overrated Nationally. I think the Bengals are making a huge mistake in letting him go.

How is he underrated? He's been an average grading safety the last 2 years and is living off of 2020. I think most people see him as a 10-15 range safety and I dont think there's much evidence to support he's a top 3 safety like he wants to be paid like. 

Look at the playoff teams and a top paid safety is pretty much no where on the list of successful teams. He's not even in the realm of a Polamalu, Reed, Thomas etc who are complete game changers. No successful team will pay him what he wants. If a crap team overpays him and then becomes good, he'll likely be one of the first cap casualties unless that give him the fully guaranteed contract. 

[Sled21]

(03-01-2023, 03:08 PM)Nately120 Wrote: If the FO is telegraphing that they refuse to entertain the idea of moving on without Tee, that really puts them at a disadvantage when it comes to negotiating a team-friendly long-term deal, doesn't it?

I think we're really banking on the idea that the front office can declare Tee to be essential to the team, and then ask him to take a team-friendly deal and play second banana to Chase for his entire career.  I don't know Tee personally, and maybe all of that sounds A-OK to him, but I feel like we're doing a whole lotta "supposing" on this stuff, either way.

Tee, we can't live without you, but we also won't pay full price either.

I don't know that Tee sees himself as second banana to Chase. I tend to think Tee thinks him competing with Chase makes them both better. And with Chase getting the constant double team, Tee is free to rack up the yardage. They have different skill sets anyway.