Bengals on (essentially) one-year deals

[*SHRacerX*]

I made a comment on another thread about the potential benefit of Ross, Mixon, and Green all being in what is essentially a contract year. That got me thinking about how many guys on the team are in the final year of their contract and are in a "prove it"-type of season.

I listed them below. I didn't list the guys at the very bottom of the roster. Just most of the starters and a few other significant players:

Shawn Williams
AJ Green
John Ross
WJIII
Kevin Huber
Joe Mixon
Alex Erickson
Fat Randy
Mackenzie Alexander
Carl Lawson
Ryan Glasgow
Jordan Evans
Clark Harris
Alex Redmond
Cethan Carter
Josh Tupou
Auden Tate
Leshawn Sims
Josh Bynes
Samaje Perine
Mason Shreck

I bolded the names I feel will be the most significant players that could make a big impact in 2020 playing for their next contract. That is a heck of a lot of talent that could be playing for new deals. No doubt, there will be some tough decisions to make next year and someone line Green, Mixon, or even Lawson could be extended before the season starts, but I am not holding my breath.

[Sled21]

I think you have to bolden Fat Randy. As the kicker, he is in one of the most important positions to produce or fail. And as many games as we've lost by 3, he has a huge impact and has to continue to produce. Punter also has a huge impact on field position, but I expect Huber to continue to be one of the best.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

Well now and after the season would be the time to do it. I think Mixon is a priority as he has stayed healthy lately
and has proven his worth as of late. The kickers Huber and Fat Randy as Sled said are solid, Huber is one of the best.

Still don't know if AJ or Ross can stay healthy any more. Kind of prove it deals for these guys but with Burrow saying
he wants AJ here he might get extended before the season which I think would be a good move rather than AJ being
paid 18 mil this year and not playing which is big time risky IMO.

Lots of these guys have lots to prove cause they just haven't been able to stay healthy, this goes for AJ, Ross, Carl
Lawson, Glasgow etc.

[fredtoast]

I think we see at least one vet get an extension, but it probably won't happen until just before training camp. That seems to be when they usually announce those deals.

I think it should be Mixon. He should be easy to sign because he is just slated to make $1.2 million this year. He may think he could get a better deal next year, but most players won't risk injury playing for peanuts for the possibility of more money in the future. RBs wear out faster than other players, but we could give Mixon a new 4 year deal and he would still just turn 27 the month before the final season of the contract.

Jackson might be another option just because they have two of their top CBs just signed for one year (McKenzie and Jackson), but Jackson play last year did not justify a big new contract. I still think he is a better player than he showed last year, but not enough to give him a large extension.

I love Green, but we have no idea what he will play like this year. Even HEALTHY wide receiver start to decline at his age. He could be very good this year, or he could struggle. No way we should give him an extension.

[BURROWorBUST]

I really really hate the way salaries and the salary cap play out in the NFL. It makes it so hard for teams to keep all of their best players. You shouldn't have to give up a player just because you can't afford them. Something has to be done to stop the over-inflation of player salaries. I don't want to spend the time trying to "fix" the problem from here in my stupid basement, but I hope you all can relate to my frustration over how badly the current system sucks, especially for fans. What's a ticket cost these days?

[*pally*]

(05-07-2020, 01:18 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I think you have to bolden Fat Randy. As the kicker, he is in one of the most important positions to produce or fail. And as many games as we've lost by 3, he has a huge impact and has to continue to produce. Punter also has a huge impact on field position, but I expect Huber to continue to be one of the best.

don't forget the important 3rd person in that group..the best long snapper in the game Clark Harris.

However, I'm not worried about any of them hitting free agency.  If they don't retire, they'll remain Bengals unless 2020 shows a big drop off in their production

[*ochocincos*]

(05-07-2020, 02:55 PM)BURROWorBUST Wrote: I really really hate the way salaries and the salary cap play out in the NFL. It makes it so hard for teams to keep all of their best players. You shouldn't have to give up a player just because you can't afford them. Something has to be done to stop the over-inflation of player salaries. I don't want to spend the time trying to "fix" the problem from here in my stupid basement, but I hope you all can relate to my frustration over how badly the current system sucks, especially for fans. What's a ticket cost these days?

This is typically the argument of salary cap vs no cap.
If you don't have a cap, you would have certain big market teams always buying up most of the good FA talent.
You could implement something like the NBA has, which is a (super) max for an individual player, but that still doesn't solve every problem.
You could remove the ability of FA completely, but IMO that's very unfair to the players.


An idea though I just thought of would be that there could be just a cap for external FA players. Teams could have an unlimited spending for players who have been with them their whole careers or players who have been released/traded.

[fredtoast]

(05-07-2020, 03:13 PM)ochocincos Wrote: An idea though I just thought of would be that there could be just a cap for external FA players. Teams could have an unlimited spending for players who have been with them their whole careers or players who have been released/traded.

Not "unlimited", but they could definitely have some sort of adjustment like the NBA does that allows them to go over the cap by a certain percentage in order to retain their own players.

[Destro]

Yikes. Hopefully we are successful enough that some want to stay.

[Yojimbo]

Another way to look at it, most are players from previous coaching staff and there could be even more roster turnover next offseason.

[PikesPeakUC]

(05-07-2020, 03:13 PM)ochocincos Wrote: This is typically the argument of salary cap vs no cap.
If you don't have a cap, you would have certain big market teams always buying up most of the good FA talent.
You could implement something like the NBA has, which is a (super) max for an individual player, but that still doesn't solve every problem.
You could remove the ability of FA completely, but IMO that's very unfair to the players.


An idea though I just thought of would be that there could be just a cap for external FA players. Teams could have an unlimited spending for players who have been with them their whole careers or players who have been released/traded.

Even the Super Max has come back to haunt the NBA. Teams and players alike have actually tried to distance themselves from it because of how badly it hamstrings a team an the ability of movement for the player.

I don't know if there's really a good way to fix any of this. It feels like the NFL, for the most part, has always got a new team or two in the playoffs and the year to year success of teams fluctuates more than any other league. 

Plus the willingness of owners to spend that money on the players. While in theory no cap or a higher cap would be great, there still may be teams who are just unwilling to dole out the money to keep guys when there are much cheaper alternatives in the draft on rookie contracts.

Most of all, some of these players that we want to hold on to might just want to try out the market and see what they're worth. I think all of us can relate to the idea of new scenery and new challenges ( with higher salary, as well. ) I feel like of all the leagues, the NFL has balanced the salary cap and finances the best. 

[fredtoast]

Overall we obviously have to have a salary cap. If we make it too "soft" then that will defeat the goal of trying to promote parity.

But things are always getting adjusted. Remember when rookie QBs were getting paid more than proven veterans before they played a single game? That was total madness and they eventually fixed it.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

Good opening post, nice work!

Though I think Bynes, Bullock, Huber, and Harris are all high impact guys. Though I will say there is next to zero chance we lose the special teamers in FA if we want to keep them.

Bynes is our starting MLB. He has to be bolded.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(05-07-2020, 01:15 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I made a comment on another thread about the potential benefit of Ross, Mixon, and Green all being in what is essentially a contract year.  That got me thinking about how many guys on the team are in the final year of their contract and are in a "prove it"-type of season.

I listed them below.  I didn't list the guys at the very bottom of the roster.  Just most of the starters and a few other significant players:

Shawn Williams
AJ Green
John Ross
WJIII
Kevin Huber
Joe Mixon
Alex Erickson
Fat Randy
Mackenzie Alexander
Carl Lawson
Ryan Glasgow
Jordan Evans
Clark Harris
Alex Redmond
Cethan Carter
Josh Tupou
Auden Tate
Leshawn Sims
Josh Bynes
Samaje Perine
Mason Shreck

I bolded the names I feel will be the most significant players that could make a big impact in 2020 playing for their next contract.  That is a heck of a lot of talent that could be playing for new deals.  No doubt, there will be some tough decisions to make next year and someone line Green, Mixon, or even Lawson could be extended before the season starts, but I am not holding my breath.

Of the bolded guys + Bynes + special teamers:

1) Priority off-season extensions = AJ & Mixon

I am sure we'd love to lock them both up. By the same token, AJ missed all of laat year and half the year before that and is getting up in age. He needs to adjust his price accordingly & Cincy may want to see him play/practice before they give him $50-$80 million. 

As much as I like Mixon, two down guys are not worth north of $10 million. Period.

2) Guys who need to show they are worth the $$$: WJ3, Ross

WJ3 has been a decent corner. But is he $10 million a year for 4 more years good? He is gonna have to prove it this year or face a more modest next contract.

We already wisely turned down Ross' 5th year option. But a good year with Burrow & AJ back could make a more modest extension worth it to both sides. May also depend on how Higgins does.

3) Guys who can play & will be looking for a raise with more solid play: Alexander, Bynes, Lawson, Tupou, Tate, Glasgow, Erickson.

How big a raise will depend on how well they play, and for some, how well others at their position play.

4) Vets whose starting days are likely done: S. Williams

Salary will likely take a hit.

5) Special teamers who likely stay if we want them: Huber, Harris, Bullock

6) All the rest are ST/fringe guys.

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-07-2020, 01:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I think we see at least one vet get an extension, but it probably won't happen until just before training camp.  That seems to be when they usually announce those deals.

I think it should be Mixon.  He should be easy to sign because he is just slated to make $1.2 million this year.  He may think he could get a better deal next year, but most players won't risk injury playing for peanuts for the possibility of more money in the future.  RBs wear out faster than other players, but we could give Mixon a new 4 year deal and he would still just turn 27 the month before the final season of the contract.

Jackson might be another option just because they have two of their top CBs just signed for one year (McKenzie and Jackson), but Jackson play last year did not justify a big new contract.  I still think he is a better player than he showed last year, but not enough to give him a large extension.

I love Green, but we have no idea what he will play like this year.  Even HEALTHY wide receiver start to decline at his age.  He could be very good this year, or he could struggle.  No way we should give him an extension.

I agree about Mixon, but I wouldn't want to see the deal any higher than 8.5 per year.  AJ will be trough. I think the organization loves him and they want him to retire a Bengal, but there is no way that you can give him $20 million per year, like Cooper just got.  I know the egos are all about getting paid more than their peers that they feel are better than, but I wouldn't care who the WR was right now, I think that is just stupid money for a WR.  Maybe there will be a way to say $20 million per year with bonuses.  And the bonuses would have to be pretty tough, but not all of them.  A good, 1000 yard season from AJ Green should net him out around $15 million.  I am hoping they are able to put together something that doesn't kill the cap but allows AJ to retire a Bengal.  Like I said, though....It will be tough.  

[*bengalfan74*]

(05-07-2020, 03:49 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: Another way to look at it, most are players from previous coaching staff and there could be even more roster turnover next offseason.

Yep, we probably won't see as big a turnover as this season but I don't doubt at all there's more maneuvering coming.

[*pally*]

From Duke Tobin yesterday about Joe Mixon

"He's the type of guy you want to lock up to a long term deal."


Of course, it requires mutual interest and a meeting of the minds and dollars but the desire is there from the team's stand point

[fredtoast]

(05-07-2020, 03:49 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: Another way to look at it, most are players from previous coaching staff and there could be even more roster turnover next offseason.

The problem with this theory is that a lot of the guys we just replaced were signed last year after Marvin was already gone. (Preston Brown, John Miller, BW Webb, John Jerry, Darquez Dennard)

[Bengalpool]

(05-08-2020, 09:52 AM)pally Wrote: From Duke Tobin yesterday about Joe Mixon

"He's the type of guy you want to lock up to a long term deal."


Of course, it requires mutual interest and a meeting of the minds and dollars but the desire is there from the team's stand point

I feel like Mixon is the safer option over Green if that's what it comes down to, but I'd love to see Green back as well on a deal where we wouldn't get screwed if he stubs his toe again.

[CJD]

(05-07-2020, 01:15 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I made a comment on another thread about the potential benefit of Ross, Mixon, and Green all being in what is essentially a contract year.  That got me thinking about how many guys on the team are in the final year of their contract and are in a "prove it"-type of season.

I listed them below.  I didn't list the guys at the very bottom of the roster.  Just most of the starters and a few other significant players:

Shawn Williams
AJ Green
John Ross
WJIII
Kevin Huber
Joe Mixon
Alex Erickson
Fat Randy
Mackenzie Alexander
Carl Lawson
Ryan Glasgow
Jordan Evans
Clark Harris
Alex Redmond
Cethan Carter
Josh Tupou
Auden Tate
Leshawn Sims
Josh Bynes
Samaje Perine
Mason Shreck

I bolded the names I feel will be the most significant players that could make a big impact in 2020 playing for their next contract.  That is a heck of a lot of talent that could be playing for new deals.  No doubt, there will be some tough decisions to make next year and someone line Green, Mixon, or even Lawson could be extended before the season starts, but I am not holding my breath.

Tate will be an RFA, so we shouldn't be too worried about him next off season.

Glasgow's season will be incredibly important for him, because he hasn't played much at all in his career. Even if he stays healthy and has a good year, it'd be difficult for him to get more than 1 year deal in 2021, considering he's been injured the last 2 years.

John Ross will probably bounce around the league on 1 to 2 year deals for a while simply because of his speed. We'll see if he can live up to that in 2020 and earn a new contract.

I'm most concerned with Carl Lawson, Joe Mixon and Mackenzie Alexander. WJII and Green fall into the "If we re-sign them, that'd be great, but we have their replacements lined up (in Phillips and Higgins)."

Lawson, Mixon and Alexander don't have heir apparents on the roster right now. I would love to sign Mixon to a 3 year extension with an AAV of 8 to 10 million, but I also understand that RBs basically have no value in this league unless they're CMC.

I don't know how much Lawson is worth. How much is a 5 to 8 sack rotational player worth? Maybe 8.5 million AAV? Maybe we'd be able to replace him in the draft in 2021.

Alexander is also a relatively low cost contract as a slot only corner. If he performs up to snuff, I'd be happy to give him a 3 year 18 million dollar deal.