Bengals players considering silent protest

[fredtoast]

(09-10-2020, 11:08 AM)PhilHos Wrote: While I get your point, remember that to most of those people that you're talking about, kneeling during the anthem is a sign of "disrespect" and would be considered "bad behavior" so I don't see it as them being inconsistent.

The inconsistency is not not based on which behavior is accepted.  The inconsistency is in saying that players should just shut up and play because no one cares about what they say or do off the field.

[*Nately120*]

(09-10-2020, 11:16 AM)fredtoast Wrote: The inconsistency is not not based on which behavior is accepted.  The inconsistency is in saying that players should just shut up and play because no one cares about what they say or do off the field.

That's how I see it.  Bfine made a good point about the mindset of people who don't like it, but what irks me more are people who say stuff like athletes and celebrities should keep politics out of things and/or politics is everywhere and being "shoved down their throats."  Mostly that sort of statement seems to stem from people disagreeing with what they are hearing rather than actually believing that anyone who isn't a politician should never make a political statement.

This is particularly bizarre since we have a non-politician as a president at the moment.  The days of leaving politics to the politicians are long gone, if they ever existed.  Political commentary has been all over the place for generations.  Hell, it wasn't too terribly long ago where having black players on your roster was viewed as an unnecessarily controversial move.

My point is that I see it more as a situation of understanding the perspective of others and I've gained some understanding in that area on this subject in the past years.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-10-2020, 10:54 AM)PhilHos Wrote: I'm of a similar mindset as bfine.

Personally, I don't like the protesting occurring during the anthem (or anytime during the game, really) but it ultimately doesn't really bother me because it doesn't really mean anything anymore except to those doing the protesting. If they REALLY wanted to effect change, maybe they should do something MEANINGFUL and, let's face it, kneeling during the anthem does virtually nothing to end police violence.

BTW, for those complaining about the people complaining about the protesting, remember this: just as it's the players right to protest during the anthem, it's other people's rights to complain about the players protesting.

The reason Kaepernick kneels is because it was suggested to him by a veteran.

https://www.armytimes.com/opinion/2016/08/30/an-open-letter-to-colin-kaepernick-from-a-green-beret-turned-long-snapper/

Quote:Colin,


I'm a big fan. I've been pulling for you ever since I first saw you play in the 2012 preseason. I was raised in the San Francisco Bay Area and have been a die-hard 49ers fan as long as I can remember – growing up, I was Joe Montana for Halloween two years straight.


I proudly wore the red and gold for an afternoon when I had a tryout with the 49ers last spring. I ultimately ended up in training camp with the Seattle Seahawks, but I'll never forget the one day I got to be a 49er.


I don't know a lot, but I do know that I catch a lot of flak for expressing my opinions, something you are now very familiar with. I also know you support the military – "God Bless Our Troops" is written on the football that you and former 49er teammate Colt McCoy signed for one of the charities I work with. The football's currently sitting in my parents' house; my dad bid the highest at the charity's auction.


Unfortunately, I also know that racism still exists in our country, as it does in every other country on this planet, and I hate that I know that. I hate the third verse of our national anthem, but thankfully we don’t sing that verse anymore. I hate that at times I feel guilty for being white.

In 2004, I witnessed genocide firsthand in the Darfur region of Sudan. The fact that hate and oppression still exist at that level in our world really hurts me. I met countless young Africans who were enamored with America and the opportunities that exist here. Those people would have given anything to experience what I had grown up with, even just for one day.


I joined the Army upon returning to the U.S. because I believed people like that were worth fighting for. De Oppresso Liber ("To Free the Oppressed") is the Army Special Forces motto, and the reason I wanted to become a Green Beret. I didn't enlist to fight for what we already have here; I did it because I wanted to fight for what those people didn't have there: Freedom.

I am in no way political, but I'm proud that we have an African-American president, and that I got to serve under him. Overcoming racism at home is a slow process, and we still have a long way to go, but most of us are trying. That's what sets us apart from so many other places. In this country, no matter who you are, where you come from, what color you are, you can try.


During college football games, both teams usually wait in the locker room until after the national anthem. That always bothered me. Leading the team out of the tunnel while carrying the American flag meant a lot, but I still regretted not being out there to stand for that song.

The only time I got to stand on the sideline for the anthem was during my one and only NFL preseason game, against the Denver Broncos. As I ran out of the tunnel with the American flag I could feel myself swelling with pride, and as I stood on the sideline with my hand on my heart as the anthem began, that swelling burst into tears.


I thought about how far I’d come and the men I’d fought alongside who didn’t make it back. I thought about those overseas who were risking their lives at that very moment. I selfishly thought about what I had sacrificed to get to where I was, and while I knew I had little to no chance of making the Seahawks’ roster as a 34-year-old rookie, I was trying.

That moment meant so much more to me than even playing in the game did, and to be honest, if I had noticed my teammate sitting on the bench, it would have really hurt me.


I’m not judging you for standing up for what you believe in. It’s your inalienable right. What you are doing takes a lot of courage, and I’d be lying if I said I knew what it was like to walk around in your shoes. I’ve never had to deal with prejudice because of the color of my skin, and for me to say I can relate to what you’ve gone through is as ignorant as someone who’s never been in a combat zone telling me they understand what it’s like to go to war.

Even though my initial reaction to your protest was one of anger, I’m trying to listen to what you’re saying and why you’re doing it. When I told my mom about this article, she cautioned me that "the last thing our country needed right now was more hate." As usual, she’s right.


There are already plenty people fighting fire with fire, and it’s just not helping anyone or anything. So I’m just going to keep listening, with an open mind.

I look forward to the day you're inspired to once again stand during our national anthem. I'll be standing right there next to you. Keep on trying … De Oppresso Liber.

That letter lead to a meeting.

https://www.latimes.com/sports/nfl/la-sp-kaepernick-kneel-boyer-20180916-story.html

Quote:“We talked about where we were both coming from,” Boyer said. “I understood the message behind it at that point. … But it’s hard for a lot of people to get past the gesture because of when it’s happening. It’s during the anthem, and that’s a sacred time for a lot of people.”

He explained to Kaepernick that veterans might feel “you don’t have their perspective and their understanding, just like they don’t have yours.”

Boyer asked the quarterback what his goals were, what the change he sought might look like.

“He couldn’t really articulate it at that point, but it was very early on in the process,” Boyer recalled. “I said, ‘Well, if you’re not going to stand, first of all, I think sitting on the bench isolated from your team is not very inspiring. It looks like you’re sitting it out or you don’t care.”

While making it clear he would not stand, Kaepernick asked Boyer if there was another way he could protest. Kneel rather than sit, he was told, that way you can be alongside your teammates.

That next game, Kaepernick knelt during the anthem, and Boyer, hand over his heart, stood alongside him on the sideline in street clothes.

“I was showing that I support his right to do that, I support the message behind what he’s demonstrating for,” Boyer said. “But I’m also standing with pride because I feel differently in a lot of ways too. But there’s nothing wrong with feeling differently and believing different things. We can still work together to make this place better.”

The idea of kneeling came from honoring fallen comrades.

If I'm going to let someone influence my opinion on this, I'm going to listen to a fellow veteran and not a draft dodger who turned this into a bigger deal than it was originally.

[Bengalholic]

I was hoping this thread could be more about what fans will do in terms of how they'll approach the game if the players do the silent protest, and it was for awhile (for the most part anyway)...but I'm gonna go ahead and move it to P&R now that's it's ran for 5 pages in JN. 

[*Nately120*]

(09-10-2020, 12:15 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: If I'm going to let someone influence my opinion on this, I'm going to listen to a fellow veteran and not a draft dodger who turned this into a bigger deal than it was originally.

I will say Trump jumping on it and being so amazingly one-sided and intentionally short-sighted about it may have caused a bit of a backlash that led to it being as accepted as it is now.  One guy people remember and a handful of guys people didn't mention did it years ago and now it almost seems like the majority of NFL players/teams are doing it...seems like another case of Trump dumping gasoline on a fire to put it out.

Then again, his campaign may think seeing players staging mass protest may motivate some voters to join his side. I just seems like yet another situation where Trump was supposed to stop this sort of thing and he only made it more popular and widespread.

[fredtoast]

(09-10-2020, 12:32 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I was hoping this thread could be more about what fans will do in terms of how they'll approach the game if the players do the silent protest, and it was for awhile (for the most part anyway)...but I'm gonna go ahead and move it to P&R now that's it's ran for 5 pages in JN. 

Actually this one lasted a lot longer than many of the other threads.  I was kind of proud of everyone.

But they all will end up like this eventually.

[fredtoast]

(09-10-2020, 12:00 PM)Nately120 Wrote:  but what irks me more are people who say stuff like athletes and celebrities should keep politics out of things and/or politics is everywhere and being "shoved down their throats." 

And most of them don't care about players "shoving religion down their throat"  when they thank god for their performance or point to the sky after scoring.

In fact they did not always play the national anthem before games.  Adding that was a purely political move.  What does playing football have to do with forced acts of patriotism?  They don't play the national anthem before concerts, movies, plays, or other forms of public entertainment.

They just don't like seeing the stuff they disagree with.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-10-2020, 12:39 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I will say Trump jumping on it and being so amazingly one-sided and intentionally short-sighted about it may have caused a bit of a backlash that led to it being as accepted as it is now.  One guy people remember and a handful of guys people didn't mention did it years ago and now it almost seems like the majority of NFL players/teams are doing it...seems like another case of Trump dumping gasoline on a fire to put it out.

Then again, his campaign may think seeing players staging mass protest may motivate some voters to join his side.  I just seems like yet another situation where Trump was supposed to stop this sort of thing and he only made it more popular and widespread.

If the draft dodger had approached this issue like Nate Boyer it would have been more constructive than suggesting NFL owners fire those sum beeches.

Don't you just hate the cancel culture?

[*Nately120*]

(09-10-2020, 12:49 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: If the draft dodger had approached this issue like Nate Boyer it would have been more constructive than suggesting NFL owners fire those sum beeches.

Don't you just hate the cancel culture?

Well Trump does and says what he does to further his own cause and nothing more.  I'm just saying in 2016 Trump wagered that being as one-sided and dismissive of this as possible was the right move and 4 years later it seems like his intentionally incendiary statements have led sentiment on protesting during the anthem to have become more popular than ever.

If you asked a Trump supporter if they thought there would be more or less kneeling in the NFL while he was president do you really think they would have admitted that kneeling would become exponentially more prevalent in Donald Trump's America?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-10-2020, 01:00 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Well Trump does and says what he does to further his own cause and nothing more.  I'm just saying in 2016 Trump wagered that being as one-sided and dismissive of this as possible was the right move and 4 years later it seems like his intentionally incendiary statements have led sentiment on protesting during the anthem to have become more popular than ever.

If you asked a Trump supporter if they thought there would be more or less kneeling in the NFL while he was president do you really think they would have admitted that kneeling would become exponentially more prevalent in Donald Trump's America?

I agree with you.  Even Jerry Jones went from you won't be a Cowboy if you protest to go ahead.

[*PhilHos*]

(09-10-2020, 12:15 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: The reason Kaepernick kneels is because it was suggested to him by a veteran.

https://www.armytimes.com/opinion/2016/08/30/an-open-letter-to-colin-kaepernick-from-a-green-beret-turned-long-snapper/


That letter lead to a meeting.

https://www.latimes.com/sports/nfl/la-sp-kaepernick-kneel-boyer-20180916-story.html






The idea of kneeling came from honoring fallen comrades.

If I'm going to let someone influence my opinion on this, I'm going to listen to a fellow veteran and not a draft dodger who turned this into a bigger deal than it was originally.

I'm not sure what this has to do with what I said, but when Colin started kneeling I recall saying that it was preferrable to just not standing (though I was still against him doing it)

[Mickeypoo]

Sports can piss off with all their political and social justice BS. Keep it off the field. I'm not even interested in the game tonight because of it.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-10-2020, 02:19 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Sports can piss off with all their political and social justice BS.  Keep it off the field.  I'm not even interested in the game tonight because of it.

It's not even on the field.  It's on the sideline.  Before the game begins.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-10-2020, 02:07 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I'm not sure what this has to do with what I said, but when Colin started kneeling I recall saying that it was preferrable to just not standing (though I was still against him doing it)

You wrote you didn't like the protests occurring during the anthem.  For some, they specifically are offended by the kneeling.  I just wanted to remind those of why Kaepernick kneels.  It wasn't directed specifically to you.

I don't like the protest happening during the anthem, either.  But, I'm not offended he is disrespecting the military, the flag, or the nation.  As a veteran, I was defending freedom.  That included the freedom to protest.  Since the Boston Tea Party, protesting is about as American as Mom, baseball, and apple pie.  If we didn't protest the British government we wouldn't be a nation.

I think it is ironic a segment of America glorifies the Rebels and flies the "Rebel" flag, but vilifies a guy for rebelling. 

[Mickeypoo]

(09-10-2020, 02:28 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: It's not even on the field.  It's on the sideline.  Before the game begins.

https://www.kshb.com/sports/chiefs-plan-social-justice-initiatives-ahead-of-season-opener

And who knows what kind of crap will be on their uniforms.

It's funny how us peons have to go to work and just shut up about politics or face HR, but elite athletes getting paid huge money can take over their employer.

[Bengalholic]

(09-10-2020, 02:19 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Sports can piss off with all their political and social justice BS.  Keep it off the field.  I'm not even interested in the game tonight because of it.

When Sunday finally gets here, I don't care if they twerk in thongs on the 50 yard line prior to the game...once the kickoff happens, it has no affect on the game itself, which is what I'm tuning in for.

[Mickeypoo]

(09-10-2020, 02:36 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: When Sunday finally gets here, I don't care if they twerk in thongs on the 50 yard line prior to the game...once the kickoff happens, it has no affect on the game itself. 

I'm glad you feel that way, and I truly hope you enjoy this season as much as any other season in the past.

No fans, kneeling/protesting, social justice BS on the field and on uniforms.  For me it detracts from football significantly.  This is the first time in my life i'm not excited about football. 

I still paid for Sunday Ticket so I can watch the Bengals, but that will probably be the only football I watch this year and if the Bengals start with all this social justice crap it will probably be the last.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-10-2020, 02:33 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: https://www.kshb.com/sports/chiefs-plan-social-justice-initiatives-ahead-of-season-opener

And who knows what kind of crap will be on their uniforms.

It's funny how us peons have to go to work and just shut up about politics or face HR, but elite athletes getting paid huge money can take over their employer.

Maybe if you got some of your like minded peons together as a group and protested your employer's business practices maybe you wouldn't have to just shut up and take it?

But, you might risk losing your job.  Like these players.

[*Nately120*]

(09-10-2020, 02:33 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: It's funny how us peons have to go to work and just shut up about politics or face HR, but elite athletes getting paid huge money can take over their employer.

Careful, complaining that rich people have more sway than peons is the first step towards joining the communist party.


AMERICANS - I'm so sick of rich people complaining about politics!
TRUMP - I'm rich and I think Obama was born in Kenya!
AMERICANS - This guy needs to be president!

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-10-2020, 02:43 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: I'm glad you feel that way, and I truly hope you enjoy this season as much as any other season in the past.

No fans, kneeling/protesting, social justice BS on the field and on uniforms.  For me it detracts from football significantly.  This is the first time in my life i'm not excited about football. 

I still paid for Sunday Ticket so I can watch the Bengals, but that will probably be the only football I watch this year and if the Bengals start with all this social justice crap it will probably be the last.

Isn't this social justice crap . . .

https://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/#:~:text=We%20hold%20these%20truths%20to,and%20the%20pursuit%20of%20Happiness.