Bernie leads Hildawg in NH

[Brownshoe]

(09-07-2015, 01:36 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I'd like to see one candidate from any direction that I like. So far, there is not one that I would vote for from either party.

this

[Belsnickel]

(09-07-2015, 01:52 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: this

I should also further state that there are no independent/third party types I'm digging on either. If he had ballot access here, this might be a Vermin Supreme election year the way things are currently going. :snark:

[jakefromstatefarm]

(09-07-2015, 11:00 AM)xxlt Wrote: More info on the Sanders "free stuff" and the lack of a single policy specific can be found here:
https://berniesanders.com/

Warning. Objects in your imagination may be more ethereal than they appear.

Okay.  Somebody show me where the specifics are here.  I seem to be missing them.  All I see is more wealth redistribution and taxing other people.  I don't see a single thing vested by any economic or tax policy center to determine what their projected income on the economy or tax revenue would be. 

Again, all I see is blathering BS and "free stuff" with no specifics.




[url=https://berniesanders.com/][/url]

1. Demanding that the wealthy and large corporations pay their fair share in taxes. As president, Sen. Sanders will stop corporations from shifting their profits and jobs overseas to avoid paying U.S. income taxes. He will create a progressive estate tax on the top 0.3 percent of Americans who inherit more than $3.5 million. He will also enact a tax on Wall Street speculators who caused millions of Americans to lose their jobs, homes, and life savings.
2. Increasing the federal minimum wage from $7.25 to $15 an hour by 2020. In the year 2015, no one who works 40 hours a week should be living in poverty.
3. Putting at least 13 million Americans to work by investing $1 trillion over five years rebuilding our crumbling roads, bridges, railways, airports, public transit systems, ports, dams, wastewater plants, and other infrastructure needs.
4. Reversing trade policies like NAFTA, CAFTA, and PNTR with China that have driven down wages and caused the loss of millions of jobs. If corporate America wants us to buy their products they need to manufacture those products in this country, not in China or other low-wage countries.
5. Creating 1 million jobs for disadvantaged young Americans by investing $5.5 billion in a youth jobs program. Today, the youth unemployment rate is off the charts. We have got to end this tragedy by making sure teenagers and young adults have the jobs they need to move up the economic ladder.
6. Fighting for pay equity by signing the Paycheck Fairness Act into law. It is an outrage that women earn just 78 cents for every dollar a man earns.
7. Making tuition free at public colleges and universities throughout America. Everyone in this country who studies hard should be able to go to college regardless of income.
8. Expanding Social Security by lifting the cap on taxable income above $250,000. At a time when the senior poverty rate is going up, we have got to make sure that every American can retire with dignity and respect.
9. Guaranteeing healthcare as a right of citizenship by enacting a Medicare for all single-payer healthcare system. It’s time for the U.S. to join every major industrialized country on earth and provide universal healthcare to all.
10. Requiring employers to provide at least 12 weeks of paid family and medical leave; two weeks of paid vacation; and 7 days of paid sick days. Real family values are about making sure that parents have the time they need to bond with their babies and take care of their children and relatives when they get ill.
11. Enacting a universal childcare and prekindergarten program. Every psychologist understands that the most formative years for a human being is from the ages 0-4. We have got to make sure every family in America has the opportunity to send their kids to a high quality childcare and pre-K program.
12. Making it easier for workers to join unions by fighting for the Employee Free Choice Act. One of the most significant reasons for the 40-year decline in the middle class is that the rights of workers to collectively bargain for better wages and benefits have been severely undermined.
13. Breaking up huge financial institutions so that they are no longer too big to fail. Seven years ago, the taxpayers of this country bailed out Wall Street because they were too big to fail. Yet, 3 out of the 4 largest financial institutions are 80 percent bigger today than before we bailed them out. Sen. Sanders has introduced legislation to break these banks up. As president, he will fight to sign this legislation into law.
    

[xxlt]

(09-07-2015, 06:55 PM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: Okay.  Somebody show me where the specifics are here.  I seem to be missing them.  All I see is more wealth redistribution and taxing other people.  I don't see a single thing vested by any economic or tax policy center to determine what their projected income on the economy or tax revenue would be. 

Again, all I see is blathering BS and "free stuff" with no specifics.




[url=https://berniesanders.com/][/url]

1. Demanding that the wealthy and large corporations pay their fair share in taxes. As president, Sen. Sanders will stop corporations from shifting their profits and jobs overseas to avoid paying U.S. income taxes. He will create a progressive estate tax on the top 0.3 percent of Americans who inherit more than $3.5 million. He will also enact a tax on Wall Street speculators who caused millions of Americans to lose their jobs, homes, and life savings.
2. Increasing the federal minimum wage from $7.25 to $15 an hour by 2020. In the year 2015, no one who works 40 hours a week should be living in poverty.
3. Putting at least 13 million Americans to work by investing $1 trillion over five years rebuilding our crumbling roads, bridges, railways, airports, public transit systems, ports, dams, wastewater plants, and other infrastructure needs.
4. Reversing trade policies like NAFTA, CAFTA, and PNTR with China that have driven down wages and caused the loss of millions of jobs. If corporate America wants us to buy their products they need to manufacture those products in this country, not in China or other low-wage countries.
5. Creating 1 million jobs for disadvantaged young Americans by investing $5.5 billion in a youth jobs program. Today, the youth unemployment rate is off the charts. We have got to end this tragedy by making sure teenagers and young adults have the jobs they need to move up the economic ladder.
6. Fighting for pay equity by signing the Paycheck Fairness Act into law. It is an outrage that women earn just 78 cents for every dollar a man earns.
7. Making tuition free at public colleges and universities throughout America. Everyone in this country who studies hard should be able to go to college regardless of income.
8. Expanding Social Security by lifting the cap on taxable income above $250,000. At a time when the senior poverty rate is going up, we have got to make sure that every American can retire with dignity and respect.
9. Guaranteeing healthcare as a right of citizenship by enacting a Medicare for all single-payer healthcare system. It’s time for the U.S. to join every major industrialized country on earth and provide universal healthcare to all.
10. Requiring employers to provide at least 12 weeks of paid family and medical leave; two weeks of paid vacation; and 7 days of paid sick days. Real family values are about making sure that parents have the time they need to bond with their babies and take care of their children and relatives when they get ill.
11. Enacting a universal childcare and prekindergarten program. Every psychologist understands that the most formative years for a human being is from the ages 0-4. We have got to make sure every family in America has the opportunity to send their kids to a high quality childcare and pre-K program.
12. Making it easier for workers to join unions by fighting for the Employee Free Choice Act. One of the most significant reasons for the 40-year decline in the middle class is that the rights of workers to collectively bargain for better wages and benefits have been severely undermined.
13. Breaking up huge financial institutions so that they are no longer too big to fail. Seven years ago, the taxpayers of this country bailed out Wall Street because they were too big to fail. Yet, 3 out of the 4 largest financial institutions are 80 percent bigger today than before we bailed them out. Sen. Sanders has introduced legislation to break these banks up. As president, he will fight to sign this legislation into law.
    

You are either remarkably stupid or pretending to be remarkably stupid. I am not sure which it is, or which is more pathetic. But in any case, you've earned my pity.

[Blutarsky]

(09-08-2015, 11:48 AM)xxlt Wrote: You are either remarkably stupid or pretending to be remarkably stupid. I am not sure which it is, or which is more pathetic. But in any case, you've earned my pity.

Instead of the tired old ad hominem, please point out the stupid in his post.

[Benton]

(09-07-2015, 06:55 PM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: Okay.  Somebody show me where the specifics are here.  I seem to be missing them.  All I see is more wealth redistribution and taxing other people.  I don't see a single thing vested by any economic or tax policy center to determine what their projected income on the economy or tax revenue would be. 

Again, all I see is blathering BS and "free stuff" with no specifics.




[url=https://berniesanders.com/][/url]

1. Demanding that the wealthy and large corporations pay their fair share in taxes. As president, Sen. Sanders will stop corporations from shifting their profits and jobs overseas to avoid paying U.S. income taxes. He will create a progressive estate tax on the top 0.3 percent of Americans who inherit more than $3.5 million. He will also enact a tax on Wall Street speculators who caused millions of Americans to lose their jobs, homes, and life savings.
2. Increasing the federal minimum wage from $7.25 to $15 an hour by 2020. In the year 2015, no one who works 40 hours a week should be living in poverty.
3. Putting at least 13 million Americans to work by investing $1 trillion over five years rebuilding our crumbling roads, bridges, railways, airports, public transit systems, ports, dams, wastewater plants, and other infrastructure needs.
4. Reversing trade policies like NAFTA, CAFTA, and PNTR with China that have driven down wages and caused the loss of millions of jobs. If corporate America wants us to buy their products they need to manufacture those products in this country, not in China or other low-wage countries.
5. Creating 1 million jobs for disadvantaged young Americans by investing $5.5 billion in a youth jobs program. Today, the youth unemployment rate is off the charts. We have got to end this tragedy by making sure teenagers and young adults have the jobs they need to move up the economic ladder.
6. Fighting for pay equity by signing the Paycheck Fairness Act into law. It is an outrage that women earn just 78 cents for every dollar a man earns.
7. Making tuition free at public colleges and universities throughout America. Everyone in this country who studies hard should be able to go to college regardless of income.
8. Expanding Social Security by lifting the cap on taxable income above $250,000. At a time when the senior poverty rate is going up, we have got to make sure that every American can retire with dignity and respect.
9. Guaranteeing healthcare as a right of citizenship by enacting a Medicare for all single-payer healthcare system. It’s time for the U.S. to join every major industrialized country on earth and provide universal healthcare to all.
10. Requiring employers to provide at least 12 weeks of paid family and medical leave; two weeks of paid vacation; and 7 days of paid sick days. Real family values are about making sure that parents have the time they need to bond with their babies and take care of their children and relatives when they get ill.
11. Enacting a universal childcare and prekindergarten program. Every psychologist understands that the most formative years for a human being is from the ages 0-4. We have got to make sure every family in America has the opportunity to send their kids to a high quality childcare and pre-K program.
12. Making it easier for workers to join unions by fighting for the Employee Free Choice Act. One of the most significant reasons for the 40-year decline in the middle class is that the rights of workers to collectively bargain for better wages and benefits have been severely undermined.
13. Breaking up huge financial institutions so that they are no longer too big to fail. Seven years ago, the taxpayers of this country bailed out Wall Street because they were too big to fail. Yet, 3 out of the 4 largest financial institutions are 80 percent bigger today than before we bailed them out. Sen. Sanders has introduced legislation to break these banks up. As president, he will fight to sign this legislation into law.
    

Uh... Jake... that's pretty specific.

Repeal anti-competitive legislation like NAFTA and CAFTA that primarily benefit mega corps and not the majority of businesses, increase the minimum wage to $15, universal childcare, paid medical leave.

Did you read it? Or just randomly post that the specifics weren't specific? He's laying out what he plans to add or cut.

[xxlt]

(09-08-2015, 11:53 AM)Blutarsky Wrote: Instead of the tired old ad hominem, please point out the stupid in his post.

I will direct you to post 26. And I will add I have assumed from your first post you do pretend to be stupid. That isn't an ad hominem attack, it is just a friendly observation. You have no credibility. I know "trolling" and playing make believe are fun for some people, but this is a place where grown ups have real conversations. You might find more like minded people at the Renaissance Fair or playing D&D in someone's basement. Again, not an attack. Just a friendly observation that you don't really blend well here. Peace.

[Belsnickel]

(09-08-2015, 12:10 PM)Benton Wrote: Uh... Jake... that's pretty specific.

Repeal anti-competitive legislation like NAFTA and CAFTA that primarily benefit mega corps and not the majority of businesses, increase the minimum wage to $15, universal childcare, paid medical leave.

Did you read it? Or just randomly post that the specifics weren't specific? He's laying out what he plans to add or cut.

Yeah, I mean, that's about as specific as you will get when it comes to a candidacy. No one lays out proposed legislation when running for office because no one will read it (and if they did they wouldn't understand it).

[Blutarsky]

(09-08-2015, 12:25 PM)xxlt Wrote: I will direct you to post 26. And I will add I have assumed from your first post you do pretend to be stupid. That isn't an ad hominem attack, it is just a friendly observation. You have no credibility. I know "trolling" and playing make believe are fun for some people, but this is a place where grown ups have real conversations. You might find more like minded people at the Renaissance Fair or playing D&D in someone's basement. Again, not an attack. Just a friendly observation that you don't really blend well here. Peace.

And what makes you think you have credibility?  The name calling doesn't help your case. Justifying ad hominem as "a friendly observation" doesn't either.

Seems the only ones here that continue to revert to name calling around here are those with left leaning views.
What a surprise.

[Blutarsky]

(09-07-2015, 01:52 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: this

Nothing extraordinary there.

"That" is the feeling of millions every 4 years.

[*PhilHos*]

(09-07-2015, 01:36 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I'd like to see one candidate from any direction that I like. So far, there is not one that I would vote for from either party.

It's how I feel in almost every election.

I will say that I was leaning towards Trump for only 2 reasons: 1) I think he could actually fix the economy (he wouldn't be afraid to make cuts on spending, IMO) but more importantly 2) to see all the liberals totally lose their shit.

After the first debate and hearing some sound bites and reading some articles, i got to say, Carly Fiorina is starting to grow on me ( you know what I mean, sickos).

Still, I'm not all that excited about any candidate ... again.

[GodHatesBengals]

(09-07-2015, 06:55 PM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: Okay.  Somebody show me where the specifics are here.  I seem to be missing them.  All I see is more wealth redistribution and taxing other people.  I don't see a single thing vested by any economic or tax policy center to determine what their projected income on the economy or tax revenue would be. 

Again, all I see is blathering BS and "free stuff" with no specifics.




[url=https://berniesanders.com/][/url]

1. Demanding that the wealthy and large corporations pay their fair share in taxes. As president, Sen. Sanders will stop corporations from shifting their profits and jobs overseas to avoid paying U.S. income taxes. He will create a progressive estate tax on the top 0.3 percent of Americans who inherit more than $3.5 million. He will also enact a tax on Wall Street speculators who caused millions of Americans to lose their jobs, homes, and life savings.
2. Increasing the federal minimum wage from $7.25 to $15 an hour by 2020. In the year 2015, no one who works 40 hours a week should be living in poverty.
3. Putting at least 13 million Americans to work by investing $1 trillion over five years rebuilding our crumbling roads, bridges, railways, airports, public transit systems, ports, dams, wastewater plants, and other infrastructure needs.
4. Reversing trade policies like NAFTA, CAFTA, and PNTR with China that have driven down wages and caused the loss of millions of jobs. If corporate America wants us to buy their products they need to manufacture those products in this country, not in China or other low-wage countries.
5. Creating 1 million jobs for disadvantaged young Americans by investing $5.5 billion in a youth jobs program. Today, the youth unemployment rate is off the charts. We have got to end this tragedy by making sure teenagers and young adults have the jobs they need to move up the economic ladder.
6. Fighting for pay equity by signing the Paycheck Fairness Act into law. It is an outrage that women earn just 78 cents for every dollar a man earns.
7. Making tuition free at public colleges and universities throughout America. Everyone in this country who studies hard should be able to go to college regardless of income.
8. Expanding Social Security by lifting the cap on taxable income above $250,000. At a time when the senior poverty rate is going up, we have got to make sure that every American can retire with dignity and respect.
9. Guaranteeing healthcare as a right of citizenship by enacting a Medicare for all single-payer healthcare system. It’s time for the U.S. to join every major industrialized country on earth and provide universal healthcare to all.
10. Requiring employers to provide at least 12 weeks of paid family and medical leave; two weeks of paid vacation; and 7 days of paid sick days. Real family values are about making sure that parents have the time they need to bond with their babies and take care of their children and relatives when they get ill.
11. Enacting a universal childcare and prekindergarten program. Every psychologist understands that the most formative years for a human being is from the ages 0-4. We have got to make sure every family in America has the opportunity to send their kids to a high quality childcare and pre-K program.
12. Making it easier for workers to join unions by fighting for the Employee Free Choice Act. One of the most significant reasons for the 40-year decline in the middle class is that the rights of workers to collectively bargain for better wages and benefits have been severely undermined.
13. Breaking up huge financial institutions so that they are no longer too big to fail. Seven years ago, the taxpayers of this country bailed out Wall Street because they were too big to fail. Yet, 3 out of the 4 largest financial institutions are 80 percent bigger today than before we bailed them out. Sen. Sanders has introduced legislation to break these banks up. As president, he will fight to sign this legislation into law.
    

This is classic jake.

"Can anybody explain this to me? Because I didn't read it at all, will never read it at all, and I need somebody to say something about it so I can call them a loser, lazy, or an idiot again."

[Benton]

(09-08-2015, 12:26 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Yeah, I mean, that's about as specific as you will get when it comes to a candidacy. No one lays out proposed legislation when running for office because no one will read it (and if they did they wouldn't understand it).

For one thing, it's not possible with most candidate's resources. They would essentially be writing the bills they were proposing which — at the federal level — can take dozens of people hundreds of hours to put sweeping change bills together. It's not realistic, for money or time, to do that during a 2-year campaign cycle.

[Rotobeast]

(09-08-2015, 02:45 PM)Benton Wrote: For one thing, it's not possible with most candidate's resources. They would essentially be writing the bills they were proposing which — at the federal level — can take dozens of people hundreds of hours to put sweeping change bills together. It's not realistic, for money or time, to do that during a 2-year campaign cycle.

I'd say it would be prudent to formulate the most important one on their platform.
I also think it should be mandatory for candidates to list people they intend to request be in their cabinet.

[jakefromstatefarm]

(09-08-2015, 12:10 PM)Benton Wrote: Uh... Jake... that's pretty specific.

Repeal anti-competitive legislation like NAFTA and CAFTA that primarily benefit mega corps and not the majority of businesses, increase the minimum wage to $15, universal childcare, paid medical leave.

Did you read it? Or just randomly post that the specifics weren't specific? He's laying out what he plans to add or cut.

No, there's no specifics here, or maybe I have a largely different definition of specific.

"I'm going to do X" is not specific.

"I'm going to do X, and pay for it by doing Y.  The non-partisan ABC Center said that this will result in Z."  That's specific.

All he's doing here is throwing a bunch of crap against the wall to see what sticks. 

Apparently New Hampshire loves these "specifics".  

[jakefromstatefarm]

(09-08-2015, 12:26 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Yeah, I mean, that's about as specific as you will get when it comes to a candidacy. No one lays out proposed legislation when running for office because no one will read it (and if they did they wouldn't understand it).

So first it was specific, and now it's "about as specific as you will get"?

The goal posts keep moving.

[jakefromstatefarm]

(09-08-2015, 02:45 PM)Benton Wrote: For one thing, it's not possible with most candidate's resources. They would essentially be writing the bills they were proposing which — at the federal level — can take dozens of people hundreds of hours to put sweeping change bills together. It's not realistic, for money or time, to do that during a 2-year campaign cycle.

Without getting into any kind of pissing match over the details of this proposal, do you believe this is a more specific proposal than the ones I highlighted from Sanders' website?

My tax plan would blow up the tax code and start over. In consultation with some of the top tax experts in the country, including the Heritage Foundation’s Stephen Moore, former presidential candidate Steve Forbes and Reagan economist Arthur Laffer, I devised a 21st-century tax code that would establish a 14.5% flat-rate tax applied equally to all personal income, including wages, salaries, dividends, capital gains, rents and interest. All deductions except for a mortgage and charities would be eliminated. The first $50,000 of income for a family of four would not be taxed. For low-income working families, the plan would retain the earned-income tax credit.


I would also apply this uniform 14.5% business-activity tax on all companies—down from as high as nearly 40% for small businesses and 35% for corporations. This tax would be levied on revenues minus allowable expenses, such as the purchase of parts, computers and office equipment. All capital purchases would be immediately expensed, ending complicated depreciation schedules.

The immediate question everyone asks is: Won’t this 14.5% tax plan blow a massive hole in the budget deficit? As a senator, I have proposed balanced budgets and I pledge to balance the budget as president.

Here’s why this plan would balance the budget: We asked the experts at the nonpartisan Tax Foundation to estimate what this plan would mean for jobs, and whether we are raising enough money to fund the government. The analysis is positive news: The plan is an economic steroid injection. Because the Fair and Flat Tax rewards work, saving, investment and small business creation, the Tax Foundation estimates that in 10 years it will increase gross domestic product by about 10%, and create at least 1.4 million new jobs.

And because the best way to balance the budget and pay down government debt is to put Americans back to work, my plan would actually reduce the national debt by trillions of dollars over time when combined with my package of spending cuts.

The left will argue that the plan is a tax cut for the wealthy. But most of the loopholes in the tax code were designed by the rich and politically connected. Though the rich will pay a lower rate along with everyone else, they won’t have special provisions to avoid paying lower than 14.5%.

[GodHatesBengals]

(09-08-2015, 03:16 PM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: Without getting into any kind of pissing match over the details of this proposal, do you believe this is a more specific proposal than the ones I highlighted from Sanders' website?

My tax plan would blow up the tax code and start over. In consultation with some of the top tax experts in the country, including the Heritage Foundation’s Stephen Moore, former presidential candidate Steve Forbes and Reagan economist Arthur Laffer, I devised a 21st-century tax code that would establish a 14.5% flat-rate tax applied equally to all personal income, including wages, salaries, dividends, capital gains, rents and interest. All deductions except for a mortgage and charities would be eliminated. The first $50,000 of income for a family of four would not be taxed. For low-income working families, the plan would retain the earned-income tax credit.


I would also apply this uniform 14.5% business-activity tax on all companies—down from as high as nearly 40% for small businesses and 35% for corporations. This tax would be levied on revenues minus allowable expenses, such as the purchase of parts, computers and office equipment. All capital purchases would be immediately expensed, ending complicated depreciation schedules.

The immediate question everyone asks is: Won’t this 14.5% tax plan blow a massive hole in the budget deficit? As a senator, I have proposed balanced budgets and I pledge to balance the budget as president.

Here’s why this plan would balance the budget: We asked the experts at the nonpartisan Tax Foundation to estimate what this plan would mean for jobs, and whether we are raising enough money to fund the government. The analysis is positive news: The plan is an economic steroid injection. Because the Fair and Flat Tax rewards work, saving, investment and small business creation, the Tax Foundation estimates that in 10 years it will increase gross domestic product by about 10%, and create at least 1.4 million new jobs.

And because the best way to balance the budget and pay down government debt is to put Americans back to work, my plan would actually reduce the national debt by trillions of dollars over time when combined with my package of spending cuts.

The left will argue that the plan is a tax cut for the wealthy. But most of the loopholes in the tax code were designed by the rich and politically connected. Though the rich will pay a lower rate along with everyone else, they won’t have special provisions to avoid paying lower than 14.5%.

More words does not = more specific.

No, this is not anymore specific than Sanders' proposals. It's just pumped up with idle slogans and appeals to authority to confuse people like you into thinking that it's more technical than it is.

[jakefromstatefarm]

(09-08-2015, 03:21 PM)GodHatesBengals Wrote: More words does not = more specific.

No, this is not anymore specific than Sanders' proposals. It's just pumped up with idle slogans and appeals to authority to confuse people like you into thinking that it's more technical than it is.

Even though it has been vetted by non-partisan organizations? 

Can you name one of Sanders proposals that has gone through the same vetting?

If not, how can you assert that this proposal is not more specific?

[GodHatesBengals]

(09-08-2015, 03:32 PM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: Even though it has been vetted by non-partisan organizations? 

Can you name one of Sanders proposals that has gone through the same vetting?

If not, how can you assert that this proposal is not more specific?

Heritage Foundation might call themselves "non-partisan", but hell if it isn't notoriously far-right and dedicated to trickle-down BS. I'm glad Sanders didn't send his ideas to corporatist shills.