(02-16-2021, 04:17 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Oooooo, what it is?
Japanese Nambu training machine gun. Grandfather brought it back as a war trophy but there is no paperwork on it and ATF has no record. It got a ton of surface rust and is spiked, but could be made functional with very little effort (my brother-in-law is a passable machinist and was thinking of doing just that). It technically fires "blanks," which were actually live rounds with wooden bullets in them used to train the Japanese population to manage a machine gun. I did some research and found that it still classified as one and so called the ATF office in Pittsburgh.
They are going to disable it to their standards, which I am fine with because I'd never find ammunition for it and this means I get to keep it. We'll probably make it look nice and display it with some of the stuff from my grandfather. I found his funeral flag, for instance, and some other stuff from his time in the service. He was also on the HMT Rohna when it was sunk, so there is some cool stuff out there on that I can include.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
(02-16-2021, 04:22 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Japanese Nambu training machine gun. Grandfather brought it back as a war trophy but there is no paperwork on it and ATF has no record. It got a ton of surface rust and is spiked, but could be made functional with very little effort (my brother-in-law is a passable machinist and was thinking of doing just that). It technically fires "blanks," which were actually live rounds with wooden bullets in them used to train the Japanese population to manage a machine gun. I did some research and found that it still classified as one and so called the ATF office in Pittsburgh.
They are going to disable it to their standards, which I am fine with because I'd never find ammunition for it and this means I get to keep it. We'll probably make it look nice and display it with some of the stuff from my grandfather. I found his funeral flag, for instance, and some other stuff from his time in the service. He was also on the HMT Rohna when it was sunk, so there is some cool stuff out there on that I can include.
Nice. I have a friend who owns an MG42. What I wouldn't do to own the firearm.
(02-16-2021, 04:24 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Nice. I have a friend who owns an MG42. What I wouldn't do to own the firearm.
Indeed.
Here is a shitty picture of it in the garage when we found it:
And a better quality one I took to send to the ATF agent:
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
There is zero reason for it other than "Look I have guns guns! I love guns!" It just to me is sad.
I have less of an issue with Don Jr's set up. Could very well be safe storage. Boebert, however, is definitely being problematic.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
(02-21-2021, 09:26 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I have less of an issue with Don Jr's set up. Could very well be safe storage. Boebert, however, is definitely being problematic.
The problem I have with Don's is that, well, it has nothing to do with the issue at hand. Just a prop and one just for show. As to whether they are safe or not is beyond what I know about them. Just that using them to show some, strength(?) goes with what I meant about the bad side of the gun culture.
Warning: Reading signatures may hurt your feelings.
(02-21-2021, 09:35 PM)GMDino Wrote: The problem I have with Don's is that, well, it has nothing to do with the issue at hand. Just a prop and one just for show. As to whether they are safe or not is beyond what I know about them.
I find it interesting that you can acknowledge a relative (complete?) lack of knowledge of firearms, but yet feel qualified to expound on what firearms laws should and should not exist. Food for thought to be sure.
Quote:Just that using them to show some, strength(?) goes with what I meant about the bad side of the gun culture.
It's called pandering, and your Dem buddies do it all the time as well. It's always stupid and it's always cringe worthy. It's also effective or it wouldn't continue to be done. I just don't see you calling it out when your ideological partners engage in it.
Colion Noir (no not his real last name) just posted a pretty good rebuttal to common anti-gun arguments. I wouldn't have used the high pitched voice for the anti argument, nor do I think he nailed every point, but he definitely exposes the flaws in the anti-gun movement.
I don't think we can ever put the genie back in the bottle unfortunately on guns and their prevalence in the country. I may be in a minority as I actually think background checks do very little in terms of preventing things as the sheer flood of weapons out there is part of that genie that can't be put back. In terms of school shootings, where I do a lot more work, most of these weapons are taken from people who did legally purchase the guns and would have passed a background check.
For me, I think it's about accountability. If you want to poses these items then you are accepting the responsibility that comes with owning them. Failure to report a lost or stolen gun should be nationwide and it should be a felony, not a misdemeanor. If your gun is used in a crime, and you failed to report it lost or stolen, you should be charged with a felony on top of the failure to report. If your gun is obtained by a minor and used to hurt themselves or someone else, you should be charged with a felony.
Going this route still lets the enthusiasts have whatever kind, whatever capacity, and whatever amount they want...as long as they want to carry the responsibility for them. I think it allows responsible gun owners to continue exercising their rights and punished the irresponsible gun owners, the people even responsible gun owners hate.
(02-22-2021, 09:34 AM)Au165 Wrote: I don't think we can ever put the genie back in the bottle unfortunately on guns and their prevalence in the country. I may be in a minority as I actually think background checks do very little in terms of preventing things as the sheer flood of weapons out there is part of that genie that can't be put back. In terms of school shootings, where I do a lot more work, most of these weapons are taken from people who did legally purchase the guns and would have passed a background check.
For me, I think it's about accountability. If you want to poses these items then you are accepting the responsibility that comes with owning them. Failure to report a lost or stolen gun should be nationwide and it should be a felony, not a misdemeanor. If your gun is used in a crime, and you failed to report it lost or stolen, you should be charged with a felony on top of the failure to report. If your gun is obtained by a minor and used to hurt themselves or someone else, you should be charged with a felony.
Going this route still lets the enthusiasts have whatever kind, whatever capacity, and whatever amount they want...as long as they want to carry the responsibility for them. I think it allows responsible gun owners to continue exercising their rights and punished the irresponsible gun owners, the people even responsible gun owners hate.
Just to hit on the bold: That's where I am on it. It's why I waver with "the laws we have are enough" vs "do we need to strengthen parts of the law/create a new one".
People in the US have a right to own a gun. That has been established. Yet we have created scenarios where they do NOT through various laws (convicted felons for example) so it is NOT an absolute right. Obviously NONE of them are as we have rules and laws that limit many if not all of our rights.
I said yesterday I don't know if those guns are stored "Safely" or not in the photos videos I posted but I also don't know how to rebuild an automobile engine and yet I know we need speed limit laws and regulations on how they are built safely...AND that we need to hold drivers responsible for how they drive and/or maintain their vehicles. I just leave to people smarter than me to come up with the best/legal way to do that. And yes I know owning a car and driving are not "rights".
Warning: Reading signatures may hurt your feelings.
(02-22-2021, 09:34 AM)Au165 Wrote: I don't think we can ever put the genie back in the bottle unfortunately on guns and their prevalence in the country. I may be in a minority as I actually think background checks do very little in terms of preventing things as the sheer flood of weapons out there is part of that genie that can't be put back. In terms of school shootings, where I do a lot more work, most of these weapons are taken from people who did legally purchase the guns and would have passed a background check.
Yeah, this point has been made several times, by both sides, here n this board. There are far more guns than people in this country, short of dictatorial confiscation, nothing is going to change that. Also, there needs to be some perspective about these types of shootings. Your odds of being involved i one, or knowing someone who has, is miniscule.
Quote:For me, I think it's about accountability. If you want to poses these items then you are accepting the responsibility that comes with owning them. Failure to report a lost or stolen gun should be nationwide and it should be a felony, not a misdemeanor. If your gun is used in a crime, and you failed to report it lost or stolen, you should be charged with a felony on top of the failure to report. If your gun is obtained by a minor and used to hurt themselves or someone else, you should be charged with a felony.
Eh, there's a lot that go wrong with this idea. First, your gun could be stolen without you knowing. This would then require a positive defense from someone whose gun was stolen and then used in a crime. That's a big no no as far as criminal law goes, the burden of proof is on the state. Also, the people most likely to get by this type of law would be your amateur gun owner, the atypical gun owner who has one pistol to protect themselves or their family. Many, if not most, gun owners buy their gun, take it to the range once, if at all, and then store the gun, uncleaned for that day they hope never comes in which they will need to use it. A firearms enthusiast will have a safe and will be taking the firearms out of the safe on a reasonably common basis. Also, what if you take every reasonable precaution and your teenaged kid gets your gun and accidentally shoots someone? Your kid is now facing heavy charges and so are you.
Quote:Going this route still lets the enthusiasts have whatever kind, whatever capacity, and whatever amount they want...as long as they want to carry the responsibility for them. I think it allows responsible gun owners to continue exercising their rights and punished the irresponsible gun owners, the people even responsible gun owners hate.
I appreciate what you're going for, I just don't think what you're proposing is workable.
(02-22-2021, 11:13 AM)GMDino Wrote: Just to hit on the bold: That's where I am on it. It's why I waver with "the laws we have are enough" vs "do we need to strengthen parts of the law/create a new one".
People in the US have a right to own a gun. That has been established. Yet we have created scenarios where they do NOT through various laws (convicted felons for example) so it is NOT an absolute right. Obviously NONE of them are as we have rules and laws that limit many if not all of our rights.
But these limits have to be grounded in logic, not the constant appeals to emotion that you get from the anti-gun side.
Quote:I said yesterday I don't know if those guns are stored "Safely" or not in the photos videos I posted but I also don't know how to rebuild an automobile engine and yet I know we need speed limit laws and regulations on how they are built safely...AND that we need to hold drivers responsible for how they drive and/or maintain their vehicles. I just leave to people smarter than me to come up with the best/legal way to do that. And yes I know owning a car and driving are not "rights".
It mattes because your ignorance about the subject doesn't change the fact that your vote for an elected official has the same value as that of a gun owner who knows their stuff. Also, ignorance leads people to accepting things they would never agree to if they were informed as to the consequences. This ignorance manifests itself every day in the anti-gun lobby. One need look no further than the constant haranguing about AR's and other "assault weapons". All rifles, of any kind, kill far less people than hands and feet, don't even get started on knives. Banning them is not a "public safety" issue because they are very rarely used to kill people. So why the constant attempts to ban them, because the ignorant can be manipulated into surrendering their rights because they don't know any better.
In any event, I'm of the position that if you're going to voice an opinion on a subject you should at least make a minimal effort to educate yourself on it first.
(02-22-2021, 01:21 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Eh, there's a lot that go wrong with this idea. First, your gun could be stolen without you knowing. This would then require a positive defense from someone whose gun was stolen and then used in a crime. That's a big no no as far as criminal law goes, the burden of proof is on the state. Also, the people most likely to get by this type of law would be your amateur gun owner, the atypical gun owner who has one pistol to protect themselves or their family. Many, if not most, gun owners buy their gun, take it to the range once, if at all, and then store the gun, uncleaned for that day they hope never comes in which they will need to use it. A firearms enthusiast will have a safe and will be taking the firearms out of the safe on a reasonably common basis. Also, what if you take every reasonable precaution and your teenaged kid gets your gun and accidentally shoots someone? Your kid is now facing heavy charges and so are you.
Simple answer. If you can't keep your gun secured then you are breaking the law. That is what we are all saying. People have a right to own a gun but they have to be responsible for them.
Obviously if someone steals a gun and uses it in a crime the same day before you miss it then that would be a defense. But just saying "I didn't keep track of it." is not a legit defense.
(02-22-2021, 01:18 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: Totally on board with personal accountability. Should be applied across the board & not just on this subject alone.
I'm not sure why anyone wouldn't report a lost or stolen firearm.
Is there a valid reason out there that I'm unaware of ?
There could be a myriad of reasons I suppose. I never doubt the ability of people to do stupid things that go against their own good.
Warning: Reading signatures may hurt your feelings.
(02-22-2021, 01:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Simple answer. If you can't keep your gun secured then you are breaking the law. That is what we are all saying. People have a right to own a gun but they have to be responsible for them.
Obviously if someone steals a gun and uses it in a crime the same day before you miss it then that would be a defense. But just saying "I didn't keep track of it." is not a legit defense.
I think a bigger issue it that some people will never accept a limitation because it will always be tied to "what's next" and therefore we can't do anything at all.
Warning: Reading signatures may hurt your feelings.
(02-22-2021, 01:21 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Eh, there's a lot that go wrong with this idea. First, your gun could be stolen without you knowing. This would then require a positive defense from someone whose gun was stolen and then used in a crime. That's a big no no as far as criminal law goes, the burden of proof is on the state. Also, the people most likely to get by this type of law would be your amateur gun owner, the atypical gun owner who has one pistol to protect themselves or their family. Many, if not most, gun owners buy their gun, take it to the range once, if at all, and then store the gun, uncleaned for that day they hope never comes in which they will need to use it. A firearms enthusiast will have a safe and will be taking the firearms out of the safe on a reasonably common basis. Also, what if you take every reasonable precaution and your teenaged kid gets your gun and accidentally shoots someone? Your kid is now facing heavy charges and so are you.
If you don't know your gun is stolen you aren't being responsible. There are safes that can send you a text when they are opened, if it's not secured that's on you. Now, if it's stolen and used in a span of say 24-48 hours, or if you are deployed or some other circumstances we can look to have some outs. If your kid can get your gun you weren't responsible, if your teenage kid can get to your gun then you didn't take every reasonable precaution.
It's about expectations, you set the expectations for those who own the firearms and they can choose if they are interested in meeting those expectations or if they are too much. Asking people to know where they are and make sure their kids can't get them doesn't seem like a huge ask in context to what failure to do so could mean.
![[Image: lvR9yKr.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/lvR9yKr.jpg)
![[Image: ItzJR1V.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/ItzJR1V.jpg)
![[Image: 4CV0TeR.png]](https://i.imgur.com/4CV0TeR.png)
![[Image: EuiEOPbVgAETKNI?format=jpg&name=4096x4096]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EuiEOPbVgAETKNI?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media0.giphy.com/media/1kwsTjL8BNqlszNtnCE/giphy.gif)
![[Image: message-indian-if-government-says-dont-n...=500&ssl=1]](https://i2.wp.com/politicallyincorrecthumor.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/message-indian-if-government-says-dont-need-a-gun-you-need-one.jpg?w=500&ssl=1)
