Biden In The Debates......

[Mickeypoo]

(09-15-2020, 09:17 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: So did Dr. Birx. And Trump didn’t correct her for taking him literally. What are the context clues that suggests he was speaking allegorically?  I’m surprised that a guy who says exactly what he means so rarely, if ever, means what he says.

Poor choice of words on my part.  I just mean it seems much more likely that he was thinking out loud and outside of the box.  Maybe he thought there could be something that could be injected to help get rid of Covid.  My 9 year old would know not to inject "bleach".  All jokes and Trump hate aside, I just cannot believe that ANY adult would literally think that that would be ok.  Kinda like the whole "there are good people on both sides" got twisted.  I was watching that live and as soon as he said that my very first thought was oh crap, I know what you mean, but the media is going to twist the crap out of that.

Despite steps to contain the pandemic and protect the high risk we have almost 200,000 dead. What do you think will happen when we stop trying to contain it?  

But we did not protect the high risk at first.  I live in NY.  It has one, if not the worst death rate for elderly because of the nursing home debacle by Cuomo.  We weren't the only state either.  Several states failed hard on protecting the elderly in nursing homes which are, I believe, 40+% of all covid deaths.  There are very few deaths of completely healthy people and even fewer kids.  It is almost all elderly or people with comorbitities.  Protect that group the best we can and open back up fully.  I would think differently if the numbers were different and what I saw around me was different.  Deaths are also starting to flatten.  You also have to think of all the ancillary harm from the lock downs and if those harms outweigh the potential harms from not locking down. There is no hard evidence the lock downs did anything to help contain the virus.  There has also been some very questionable reporting about the number of Covid deaths at a nationwide level.

I don’t agree with your suggestion, but I’m willing to change my mind if you have data to support current infectious disease controls. Do you?

No, just what I see in the CDC numbers, what has been reported so far, looking at the number of deaths in just NY & NJ, who it effects and just looking at the numbers over time.  Plus looking at what has happened in other countries who didn't lock down vs countries that lock down.

That’s fair.

Thanks.  :)

Is this in relation to asking why do we have monuments to traitors?  If you take up arms or conspire with the enemy against the country their shouldn’t be monuments honoring your treason.

I was just curious what monuments were of people who were traitors, the history of the person and what made them traitors and why did we erect the monuments in the first place.

Kenny Walker, licensed and legal gun owner shot first. He has the legal right to shoot an intruder. The police have a legal right to self-defense. The police claim they announced themselves, but Walker disputes that. There is the chance he is lying. There is also the chance he really didn’t hear them when startled out of sleep at almost 1 am.

Didn't they have a legal no knock warrant?  But I understand the catch 22 you (unknowingly?) pointed out which is why Rand Paul introduced the Breona Taylor legislation to abolish or limit the practice of no knock warrants.

But, as of tonight the city of Louisville has reached a settlement with her family and pledged to change police practices.

I saw that.

The police had Floyd handcuffed and in the vehicle before they removed from the vehicle and kneeled on his neck until they killed him. Floyd’s criminal history and actions that night didn’t warrant death.

I watched the whole video multiple times.  Floyd was uncooperative.  Wouldn't get in the car and was acting like he was on something.  Turns out he had large amounts of fentanyl in his system.  Don't get me wrong, what Chauvin did was awful, but the reality is that he may not have killed him.  I also agree that his actions did not warrant death, but the possibility that he died from an OD is very real.  I even saw one of the examiners on TV, can't remember where, but he said that if all the circumstances were unknown to him and he was just basing cause of death on what he saw in his autopsy that it would be an OD death.  He said Floyds lungs were 3 times the weight they should have been.  Don't take this as a defense of the police.  I am just throwing out information that I believe to be accurate.

If I told you that you had an infection, but down played it so you would think it was less serious than I knew it to be and you subsequently died, I’d be guilty of malpractice. Trump is essentially guilty of malpractice, figuratively, on a national level.

I’m not okay with that and it does bother me.

I can see your point from a Dr. patient perspective, but from a keeping an entire Country from freaking out perspective is a bit of a reach for me.  Look at the run of toilet paper and other supplies even though it was downplayed a bit.  I'd rather have less nationwide panic.  As far as any info I can find, they were still doing everything they could behind the scenes to keep the Country safe.  This is just my opinion and I respect yours.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

Mick, if you put your answers inside my quote then I can’t quote your quotes. So I’m sorry for this format.

1) Injecting disinfectants is not thinking outside the box.

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/04/25/845015236/nyc-poison-control-sees-uptick-in-calls-after-trumps-disinfectant-comments

https://www.google.com/amp/s/en.as.com/en/2020/04/25/other_sports/1587834179_103339.amp.html

Despite your doubts, poison control centers across the country reported increased exposures to disinfectants and ERs treated more patients for the same.

2) We did very little to protect anyone initially because Trump was lying to us. Your suggestion of getting rid of social distancing, getting rid of face coverings, and eliminating any sort of restrictions on gatherings would essentially return us to January before things got really bad and some people started taking it seriously rather than listening to Trump’s lies.

3) So you don’t have any data, just a feeling? And I’m supposed to trust your feeling over Dr. Fauci’s education, training, and experience?

Yesterday, I admitted to michaelsean he was correct and I was wrong based upon data. I’ve indicated I’m capable of admitting I’m wrong and changing my position, but why should I believe you instead of epidemiologists?

4) Pick any Confederate soldier you like and he is a traitor to this country and the enemy undeserving of a monument to his treason. They should be pulled down.

5) Floyd was in restraints and in the police vehicle. Basically, mission accomplished before they pulled him out of the vehicle they tried so hard to get him into. I know he was uncooperative getting into the vehicle which is why it was so stupid to remove him once they got him in there. I’ve prescribed and administered many types of pain meds. Including fentanyl while in Iraq. If Floyd ODed on fentanyl or any opioid it wouldn’t take three cops to WRESTLE him into a vehicle. He wouldn’t be resisting arrest. He’d be resisting unconsciousness.

Here’s his autopsy report which doesn’t list OD as a cause of death :

https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepinus/residents/public-safety/documents/floyd-autopsy-6-3-20.pdf

This is a study showing the therapeutic range of fentanyl which didn’t result in OD and Floyd’s level was within the therapeutic range which is probably why OD isn’t listed as a cause of death.

https://watermark.silverchair.com/bks005.pdf?token=AQECAHi208BE49Ooan9kkhW_Ercy7Dm3ZL_9Cf3qfKAc485ysgAAApwwggKYBgkqhkiG9w0BBwagggKJMIIChQIBADCCAn4GCSqGSIb3DQEHATAeBglghkgBZQMEAS4wEQQMn65zHMC-YO-nN-ioAgEQgIICTxl9i-Gc1UGlw5kbwR_GIVER6LD_Hj1y0axEkH4m3Mi_Y6zq3In5MHL8xxUAPEndnovdMKcc26e6THzYB-rDieLawCvSQa7hYam1jddK99-JO4NPzHAqRWu6NupDpLPbACvM22Ov90X7ESaidQ-JJOZDPc7L4GvDKJVXlYbftqa0Hgx_rox7O4yBtwlltttDR2FyIZW2XlBoEnPjuZGTaEOy3Fo2TGMgyxOiJeL8bjQaJl-gMYlvWX-1cnTP-3ry9EZo3KDl1G676Y-QBCeCJtqslAv25-5SPjIKhV1SVudpIXzELpV9bawO3RyarNxObOMbsXb9iQ_yiWy5W8I_jbwyej9Hzv-wv2IKiKEDUMc7sQibMPco9WJfyFkaLLDy4Z0lPFXcc3KtxjQSOElmh4HRgeIKf-GRwhdQpqQZ6FAEBedL3nQGGGoJyCb7sFZdiPAMqxau_EDx1kMX1faJXkV7wty8xz2dYqnOcm9KS4v-Nub5tFH9DTzsda-y3e9YxHGWRm7Pf4FOHejZlFTIN1tOSeu1Ct71oIEArKwnl5RMcSFcQ_u9NAwtwLZ2Feurk-Slwo4wn3U9ShHyoPYE37lIgDdi2Pq4X5q3bo4jMLRF4oDvxXMJQkUIXrfNTtUs2ls_kocidrBwq_L68S0oNJgXuJ0Eae6oq-Xvf3o1v_KMve3fXmArriyYqpqA14bewzXOtcXukh3X9_2Vt51D8zZKVbSOngSS-XVxMyMPzjjOTg_1ppL41tzpAkWfc5jm4LS2Yb4TD4RmcbYfVagMWA

6) They absolutely weren’t doing everything they could. Recommendations to contain the spread included testing and contact tracing. Tests were always in short supply despite a commercially available tests which was available in January which they didn’t approve for use until late March or April. Just one example. If you can’t test the over 8,000 people you let in from China despite “banning” them from entering the country then you should quarantine them. The travel ban failed. They failed to test adequately. They failed to quarantine adequately. In the military, this is what is known as a goat **** because they left SNAFU, FUBAR, and goat rope in the rear view mirror on their way to a full blown cluster **** of epic proportions you only see once a century.

[Mickeypoo]

(09-16-2020, 01:18 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Mick, if you put your answers inside my quote then I can’t quote your quotes.  So I’m sorry for this format.

1) Injecting disinfectants is not thinking outside the box.

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/04/25/845015236/nyc-poison-control-sees-uptick-in-calls-after-trumps-disinfectant-comments

https://www.google.com/amp/s/en.as.com/en/2020/04/25/other_sports/1587834179_103339.amp.html

Despite your doubts, poison control centers across the country reported increased exposures to disinfectants and ERs treated more patients for the same.

2) We did very little to protect anyone initially because Trump was lying to us. Your suggestion of getting rid of social distancing, getting rid of face coverings, and eliminating any sort of restrictions on gatherings would essentially return us to January before things got really bad and some people started taking it seriously rather than listening to Trump’s lies.

3) So you don’t have any data, just a feeling? And I’m supposed to trust your feeling over Dr. Fauci’s education, training, and experience?

Yesterday, I admitted to michaelsean he was correct and I was wrong based upon data. I’ve indicated I’m capable of admitting I’m wrong and changing my position, but why should I believe you instead of epidemiologists?  

4) Pick any Confederate soldier you like and he is a traitor to this country and the enemy undeserving of a monument to his treason. They should be pulled down.

5) Floyd was in restraints and in the police vehicle. Basically, mission accomplished before they pulled him out of the vehicle they tried so hard to get him into. I know he was uncooperative getting into the vehicle which is why it was so stupid to remove him once they got him in there. I’ve prescribed and administered many types of pain meds. Including fentanyl while in Iraq. If Floyd ODed on fentanyl or any opioid it wouldn’t take three cops to WRESTLE him into a vehicle. He wouldn’t be resisting arrest. He’d be resisting unconsciousness.

Here’s his autopsy report which doesn’t list OD as a cause of death  :

https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepinus/residents/public-safety/documents/floyd-autopsy-6-3-20.pdf

This is a study showing the therapeutic range of fentanyl which didn’t result in OD and Floyd’s level was within the therapeutic range which is probably why OD isn’t listed as a cause of death.

https://watermark.silverchair.com/bks005.pdf?token=AQECAHi208BE49Ooan9kkhW_Ercy7Dm3ZL_9Cf3qfKAc485ysgAAApwwggKYBgkqhkiG9w0BBwagggKJMIIChQIBADCCAn4GCSqGSIb3DQEHATAeBglghkgBZQMEAS4wEQQMn65zHMC-YO-nN-ioAgEQgIICTxl9i-Gc1UGlw5kbwR_GIVER6LD_Hj1y0axEkH4m3Mi_Y6zq3In5MHL8xxUAPEndnovdMKcc26e6THzYB-rDieLawCvSQa7hYam1jddK99-JO4NPzHAqRWu6NupDpLPbACvM22Ov90X7ESaidQ-JJOZDPc7L4GvDKJVXlYbftqa0Hgx_rox7O4yBtwlltttDR2FyIZW2XlBoEnPjuZGTaEOy3Fo2TGMgyxOiJeL8bjQaJl-gMYlvWX-1cnTP-3ry9EZo3KDl1G676Y-QBCeCJtqslAv25-5SPjIKhV1SVudpIXzELpV9bawO3RyarNxObOMbsXb9iQ_yiWy5W8I_jbwyej9Hzv-wv2IKiKEDUMc7sQibMPco9WJfyFkaLLDy4Z0lPFXcc3KtxjQSOElmh4HRgeIKf-GRwhdQpqQZ6FAEBedL3nQGGGoJyCb7sFZdiPAMqxau_EDx1kMX1faJXkV7wty8xz2dYqnOcm9KS4v-Nub5tFH9DTzsda-y3e9YxHGWRm7Pf4FOHejZlFTIN1tOSeu1Ct71oIEArKwnl5RMcSFcQ_u9NAwtwLZ2Feurk-Slwo4wn3U9ShHyoPYE37lIgDdi2Pq4X5q3bo4jMLRF4oDvxXMJQkUIXrfNTtUs2ls_kocidrBwq_L68S0oNJgXuJ0Eae6oq-Xvf3o1v_KMve3fXmArriyYqpqA14bewzXOtcXukh3X9_2Vt51D8zZKVbSOngSS-XVxMyMPzjjOTg_1ppL41tzpAkWfc5jm4LS2Yb4TD4RmcbYfVagMWA

6) They absolutely weren’t doing everything they could. Recommendations to contain the spread included testing and contact tracing. Tests were always in short supply despite a commercially available tests which was available in January which they didn’t approve for use until late March or April. Just one example. If you can’t test the over 8,000 people you let in from China despite “banning” them from entering the country then you should quarantine them. The travel ban failed. They failed to test adequately. They failed to quarantine adequately. In the military, this is what is known as a goat **** because they left SNAFU, FUBAR, and goat rope in the rear view mirror on their way to a full blown cluster **** of epic proportions you only see once a century.

Oh, i'm sorry, I thought it would make it easier to read.

On the disinfectant thing.  I'm not defending his choice of words at all, it was stupid, but I do not believe the narrative critics were trying to push either.  This also proves there are some pretty, um, "simple" people out there.  I don't say that to be mean.  It's just that my 9 yr old and 12 yr old would know not to do that.

On the Floyd thing.  I'll have to re-watch the video.  From what I remember seeing was Floyd partially in the car resisting and saying he was claustrophobic, so they let him back out.  Were they showing compassion for him?  I don't know.  Autopsy said he had 11mg fentanyl in his system and that they have pronounced OD with as little as 3mg before.  I re-read the report and you are correct that they did rule homicide with contributing factors being fentanyl and heart disease with one artery clogged 75%.  Don't get me wrong, I am not defending Chauvin on this.  That dude is a piece of s@!t who should have been fired long ago.  The one thing that can't be argued though, in any of these cases (minus Taylor) is that if the suspect cooperates with the police they are all still alive today.

The other problem I have with all this race charged rhetoric around all of these different police shootings is that there is zero proof any of them were race related.  There is speculation, emotion, feelings, assumptions, etc., but no proof of any kind that race played any role in what happened.

On the Covid thing.  Really, it is hard to argue either way whether the Trump administration did everything they could.  There is a lot of noise from the media and critics of Trump and a lot of positives from his supporters and friendly media.  On it's face what you said would appear to make it look like they did not do everything they could, but you would have to research and examine each situation to get a true picture.  His critics were also not helping calling the Prez a racist and xenophobe for the travel ban.

Everybody says Trump did a bad job with Covid response not realizing or ignoring that there is huge amounts of info coming from all angles from many different sources during an unprecedented time.  There is so much more to just saying any Prez didn't do a good job in a certain situation and common people like us will never be able to know the ins and outs of what happened to make a fair assessment.

On top of all that, my own personal opinion is that Covid was massively overblown once the Dems realized it could hurt Trump in the election if the economy was down and people were distressed.  Just my opinion, but before Covid, Trump was cruising to an easy victory with the strong economy and record low unemployment.  The polls showed people were very happy with the direction of the Country.  So politics adds a whole nother level to the "did he handle Covid properly" debate.  There is just way to much going on from to many different levels to ever truly know what the correct answer is.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-16-2020, 09:09 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Oh, i'm sorry, I thought it would make it easier to read.

It was easy to read, but more difficult to respond.

Quote:On the disinfectant thing.  I'm not defending his choice of words at all, it was stupid, but I do not believe the narrative critics were trying to push either.  This also proves there are some pretty, um, "simple" people out there.  I don't say that to be mean.  It's just that my 9 yr old and 12 yr old would know not to do that.

Except I’m not pushing a narrative by critics I’m telling you what I saw with my own eyes. I also see a pattern of you making excuses for what he said. ‘He didn’t mean it.’ ‘People are dumb for listening to the President.’

Here’s the thing, his critics aren’t pushing a “narrative,” they’re telling the truth on this one. This is an easy one that anyone with eyes and ears should be able to agree upon.

Quote:On the Floyd thing.  I'll have to re-watch the video.  From what I remember seeing was Floyd partially in the car resisting and saying he was claustrophobic, so they let him back out.  Were they showing compassion for him?  I don't know.  Autopsy said he had 11mg fentanyl in his system and that they have pronounced OD with as little as 3mg before.  I re-read the report and you are correct that they did rule homicide with contributing factors being fentanyl and heart disease with one artery clogged 75%.  Don't get me wrong, I am not defending Chauvin on this.  That dude is a piece of s@!t who should have been fired long ago.  The one thing that can't be argued though, in any of these cases (minus Taylor) is that if the suspect cooperates with the police they are all still alive today.

Floyd said he was claustrophobic before he was in the vehicle and yet they wrestled him in the vehicle despite his protests. They didn’t care he claimed to be claustrophobic or they wouldn’t have wrestled him into the vehicle to begin with. Despite Floyd’s uncooperative behavior he was in the vehicle before the police removed him from the vehicle. If the police don’t remove Floyd from the vehicle then Chauvin wouldn’t kneel on his neck until he kills him. If any of Chauvin’s fellow officers intervene in Chauvin killing Floyd then naturally Floyd wouldn’t have been killed, either. So it can absolutely be argued Floyd should be alive today despite resisting. Furthermore, there is a reasonable expectation police will encounter multiple suspects who will resist arrest over the course of their careers so it is also reasonable to expect police should be trained well enough not to kill people when they do resist.

Quote:The other problem I have with all this race charged rhetoric around all of these different police shootings is that there is zero proof any of them were race related.  There is speculation, emotion, feelings, assumptions, etc., but no proof of any kind that race played any role in what happened.

You have no proof your uneducated opinion of getting rid of current pandemic mitigation strategies and opening fully is a better strategy than Dr. Fauci’s educated opinion on disease prevention and public health, yet you still believe your opinion despite a complete dearth of any evidence.

So I’m going to have to ask you to remain consistent in your arguments. You don’t get to ask for evidence when you like, but refuse to provide evidence when it is asked of you.

Conversely, if you expect to be believed without evidence then you will have to believe others without evidence. You don’t get to have your cake and it it , too.

Quote:On the Covid thing.  Really, it is hard to argue either way whether the Trump administration did everything they could.  There is a lot of noise from the media and critics of Trump and a lot of positives from his supporters and friendly media.  On it's face what you said would appear to make it look like they did not do everything they could, but you would have to research and examine each situation to get a true picture.  His critics were also not helping calling the Prez a racist and xenophobe for the travel ban.

No, it’s not hard to argue. I presented you a simple example and you’re making excuses. A recommendation from the beginning was test, isolate, contact trace. They did a poor job of that. Travel bans aren’t recommended and they did a poor job with that letting thousands in directly from China. The approached it ass backwards.

Quote:Everybody says Trump did a bad job with Covid response not realizing or ignoring that there is huge amounts of info coming from all angles from many different sources during an unprecedented time.  There is so much more to just saying any Prez didn't do a good job in a certain situation and common people like us will never be able to know the ins and outs of what happened to make a fair assessment.

On top of all that, my own personal opinion is that Covid was massively overblown once the Dems realized it could hurt Trump in the election if the economy was down and people were distressed.  Just my opinion, but before Covid, Trump was cruising to an easy victory with the strong economy and record low unemployment.  The polls showed people were very happy with the direction of the Country.  So politics adds a whole nother level to the "did he handle Covid properly" debate.  There is just way to much going on from to many different levels to ever truly know what the correct answer is.

Need I remind you Trump was publicly telling Americans the China virus was a Democrat hoax in February while privately admitting to Bob Woodward he was lying?

That’s the definition of making it political while failing in your duty as President during a national (not state) crisis.

[BigPapaKain]

While we're talking about terrible a candidate is during a live discussion, did anyone catch that Town Hall meeting?

Holy shit that was awful.

[Mickeypoo]

(09-17-2020, 03:12 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: While we're talking about terrible a candidate is during a live discussion, did anyone catch that Town Hall meeting?

Holy shit that was awful.

Like him or hate him, he at least makes himself very available to the press for questions.  He also does not need a teleprompter or script to answer said questions.  

I would have called BS on the teleprompter narrative, but Biden's Spokesman Ducklo refused to answer a specific, simple yes or no question about it.  If Biden isn't using them to answer questions then that is an easy hard "no" answer and then move on.  There are also videos of him appearing to use a prompter to answer questions, plus the lady who said she was supposed to read the script but went rogue.

Biden doing a CNN Town Hall tonight @8p hosted by Anderson Cooper.  Should be some serious hard hitting, difficult questions from Cooper and the CNN crowd.  lol.  Hopefully there really are.

I wonder when Biden will do a Fox News Town Hall? 

[*Nately120*]

(09-17-2020, 03:31 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Like him or hate him, he at least makes himself very available to the press for questions.  He also does not need a teleprompter or script to answer said questions.  

Trump has walked away from questions/interviews/press conferences, labeled questions/the people who ask them as nasty, and he does indeed use teleprompters and scripts and when he goes off them he is prone to rambling about himself and ignoring the actual question.

Anyone who is pro-Trump and brings up mental acuity or teleprompters as a means to slag on Biden is walking around naked in a glass house, so to speak. 

(09-17-2020, 03:31 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: I wonder when Biden will do a Fox News Town Hall? 

According to some media-driven narratives, if/when Biden speaks he will soil himself and then ramble on about how ice cream costs a nickle and his childhood dog will be his VP.

[Mickeypoo]

(09-17-2020, 03:52 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Trump has walked away from questions/interviews/press conferences, labeled questions/the people who ask them as nasty, and he does indeed use teleprompters and scripts and when he goes off them he is prone to rambling about himself and ignoring the actual question.

Anyone who is pro-Trump and brings up mental acuity or teleprompters as a means to slag on Biden is walking around naked in a glass house, so to speak. 



According to some media-driven narratives, if/when Biden speaks he will soil himself and then ramble on about how ice cream costs a nickle and his childhood dog will be his VP.

I wasn't saying he doesn't use teleprompters.  I was saying he doesn't use them for the purpose of answering constituent or press questions.

All I was saying was that Ducklo had the perfect opportunity on national television to put the whole teleprompter narrative to bed with a single word, "No", and he couldn't do it.  Why?

As far as I can remember, the only thing I have ever said about Biden's mental acuity is that based off of watching old video of him speak and watching him speak since he started his campaign something seems off to me.  And I meant it genuinely, not to pick on him.  I even said I feel sorry for him at one point.  I don't believe I have said more than that.

In fact I don't think I have posted much about Trump or Biden specifically and have purposely tried not to make any kind of attacking type comments.

I am a Trump policy supporter.  If you reversed Trump and Biden, but not the policies, I'm voting for Biden. 

[BmorePat87]

(09-17-2020, 03:31 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Like him or hate him, he at least makes himself very available to the press for questions.  He also does not need a teleprompter or script to answer said questions.  

The White House set a record for most days without a press briefing after a month without them and then shattered the record by going over 300 days without them, ending the streak as the pandemic began. 

[Mickeypoo]

(09-17-2020, 07:40 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: The White House set a record for most days without a press briefing after a month without them and then shattered the record by going over 300 days without them, ending the streak as the pandemic began. 

That may be true, but it seems like he is answering questions daily in some form or another.

One more thing..........GO BENGALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  

[Dill]

(09-16-2020, 09:09 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: On the disinfectant thing.  I'm not defending his choice of words at all, it was stupid, but I do not believe the narrative critics were trying to push either.  This also proves there are some pretty, um, "simple" people out there.  I don't say that to be mean.  It's just that my 9 yr old and 12 yr old would know not to do that.

On the Covid thing.  Really, it is hard to argue either way whether the Trump administration did everything they could.  There is a lot of noise from the media and critics of Trump and a lot of positives from his supporters and friendly media.  On it's face what you said would appear to make it look like they did not do everything they could, but you would have to research and examine each situation to get a true picture.  His critics were also not helping calling the Prez a racist and xenophobe for the travel ban.

Everybody says Trump did a bad job with Covid response not realizing or ignoring that there is huge amounts of info coming from all angles from many different sources during an unprecedented time.  There is so much more to just saying any Prez didn't do a good job in a certain situation and common people like us will never be able to know the ins and outs of what happened to make a fair assessment.a whole nother level to the "did he handle Covid properly" debate.  There is just way to much going on from to many different levels to ever truly know what the correct answer is.

Three points here.

1. Trump was certainly not encouraging people to self-medicate with bleach. But he did suggest researching some way to get disinfectant into the body to kill COVID, because he learned it kills the virus on external surfaces. That is thinking outside the box, but not in a good way. It means Trump didn't really know where the box was. Chemotherapy involves introducing acid-like chemicals into the body in tiny amounts to kill reproducing (thin-skinned cells), but to suppose one could get a virus that way, like cleaning an external surface--only inside the body--just means lack of basic biological/medical knowledge of cells and how a virus works on them.

2. Doesn't matter if the guy wiping my car down at the car wash doesn't know basic biology, but it may matter if the President of the US doesn't know during a pandemic. If he doesn't have a realistic idea of what can be good or bad research, can he tell good doctors from crackpots--a Fauci from an Atlas?  I fear he cannot. And that inability to judge affects the administration's policy, the direction (or not) of resources, and the messaging needed to get the country all on the same page. It affects how he sorts through those "many different sources" coming "from all angles." Remember when Trump wanted to "slow down" the testing? Spoke as if more testing CREATED more cases? Remember the Fox defenses of his touting hydroxychloroquine? And just yesterday--> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-s-rebuke-of-cdc-director-sows-confusion-on-vaccine-timeline/ar-BB1990tM?ocid=uxbndlbing

When the subject is life and death medical knowledge, we should not always be debating what a National leader really meant, whether he was serious, etc.  That we are constantly doing that is itself an indication of bad leadership.

3. We common folk can and should strive to assess how well our leaders are doing--especially during a national crisis. Democracy is dead if we cannot do that successfully. Comparing the US response to that of other countries is a good place to start. That gives us some idea of what options were available to Trump and which he did or did not choose. It does look like some leaders "found the correct answer" for their countries, and communicated it clearly to the people they were sworn to protect. Others punished whistleblowers, scorned social distancing, muzzled medical experts, opened their economies, suppressed data, and attacked the press.

We can make a "fair assessment" if we want to.  But we must recognize what is at stake and want to make that assessment.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p0rGLPdvqWM

Hydrosonic missiles, ladies and gentlemen. I have to override my phone’s autocorrect to even type hydrosonic. Because even my phone knows better.

This is the guy who knows more than the generals.

[BmorePat87]

(09-23-2020, 02:07 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p0rGLPdvqWM

Hydrosonic missiles, ladies and gentlemen. I have to override my phone’s autocorrect to even type hydrosonic. Because even my phone knows better.

This is the guy who knows more than the generals.

I mean, clearly he was joking/tired/working all day 

Did you see Biden pander to the wrong group???

[Mickeypoo]

(09-23-2020, 02:07 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p0rGLPdvqWM

Hydrosonic missiles, ladies and gentlemen. I have to override my phone’s autocorrect to even type hydrosonic. Because even my phone knows better.

This is the guy who knows more than the generals.

At least he didn't crash and reboot.  He must be a newer model.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc5ka-MxgBQ

[GMDino]

The Trump minions were out yesterday trying to push a new narrative that Biden is actually a very good debater.  

(Please note that they can't keep Trump on that message because all he knows how to do is insult.)

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/517412-trump-campaign-plays-up-bidens-skills-ahead-of-cleveland-debate-hes-actually?fbclid=IwAR3xezHHsxQL4gRq2SJPeTp0-ukByxbZ4AnKyqpkMNeg4MqLcAUvjFvVqUg

Quote:The Trump campaign attempted to play up the debate abilities of Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden with the first debate in less than 10 days.


With the first presidential debates slated for Sept. 29 in Cleveland, the Trump campaign's communications director on Monday told Fox News that the former vice president “knows his way” around the debate stage after 47 years in politics.

“Joe Biden has been a Washington politician for 47 years, he spent decades in the Senate where all they do is debate, he was vice president twice, and debated on the national stage in each of those races, and did very well,” Trump campaign communications director Tim Murtaugh said in an appearance on "Fox & Friends First."

“In the Democrat primaries, he debated a whole crowd of opponents, 11 times, and he won,” Murtaugh noted. “He bested two dozen Democrat challengers.”

Biden “knows his way around the debate stage," Murtaugh later said. “He knows how to do it. He’s actually quite good. That’s the Joe Biden we expect to see on debate night. ... We have to be prepared for the tuned-in Joe Biden.”

President Trump also said he expects Biden to perform well because he's a "professional" and "can debate." 

“I don’t know if he’s all there, but I think he’s a professional,” Trump said in a phone call later on Monday on "Fox & Friends."

“I have to assume that he is a professional and that he can debate," Trump said, adding he believes Biden "is going to do great."

Trump has previously said he thought Biden was "incompetent" in the early Democratic primary debates and called for Biden to be drug tested before the first presidential debate, citing Biden's performance in a one-on-one debate with Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) in March.

“We are going to call for a drug test,” Trump told the Washington Examiner on Aug. 26. "I don't know how he could have been so incompetent in his debate performances and then all of a sudden be OK against Bernie Sanders."

Some of my more rabid conservative friends have shared video after video after meme after meme about how Biden has dementia and will probably just stand on the stage and drool and how they CAN'T WAIT to watch Trump wipe the floor with him.

I mentioned that even the Trump people realize that that isn't the case without telling them they are doing the same thing that republicans did for Trump in 2016: lowering the bar so far that everything will look good short of dropping his pants and crapping on the stage.

Of course that doesn't register with them.

To wit:






And I understand most people have long ago made up their minds who they are voting for so the debates will serve very little purpose but there is a disconnect in there that is still stunning.  Especially from people who would be considered smart and thinkers in other parts of their lives.

[GMDino]

(09-23-2020, 08:48 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: At least he didn't crash and reboot.  He must be a newer model.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc5ka-MxgBQ

When your fictional "sir" story gets confused with your fictional "my wife talks to me" story.

"I go home all the time, 'First Lady, how'd you like the crowd? 'Sir, I didn't see it. I didn't see it. I didn't see it Donald, I didn't see it.' Sometimes she'll call me Mr President, but she's only kidding, believe me." -- Trump tells a Sir Story about Melania pic.twitter.com/vMkJrJiesX

— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) September 23, 2020

 

[Mickeypoo]

(09-23-2020, 09:58 AM)GMDino Wrote: When your fictional "sir" story gets confused with your fictional "my wife talks to me" story.

"I go home all the time, 'First Lady, how'd you like the crowd? 'Sir, I didn't see it. I didn't see it. I didn't see it Donald, I didn't see it.' Sometimes she'll call me Mr President, but she's only kidding, believe me." -- Trump tells a Sir Story about Melania pic.twitter.com/vMkJrJiesX

— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) September 23, 2020

 

Dude, it was funny and would have been funny no matter who did it.  Just laugh, it's ok.

George's face is hysterical!  He's like "wtf just happened"?

Obviously her teleprompter malfunctioned and she got confused.  

[BmorePat87]

(09-23-2020, 11:37 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Dude, it was funny and would have been funny no matter who did it.  Just laugh, it's ok.

Obviously her teleprompter malfunctioned and she got confused.  

Shouldn't this have been your advice to yourself when you posted the Pelosi video in response to the Trump video? Dino literally just responded the way you did...

[GMDino]

(09-23-2020, 11:37 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Dude, it was funny and would have been funny no matter who did it.  Just laugh, it's ok.

George's face is hysterical!  He's like "wtf just happened"?

Obviously her teleprompter malfunctioned and she got confused.  

That's funny since you can see Trump's teleprompters on that video. 

[Mickeypoo]

(09-23-2020, 11:46 AM)GMDino Wrote: That's funny since you can see Trump's teleprompters on that video. 

IT WAS A JOKE, FFS!!!  Did you not see the little ninja at the end?